Date   
Re: D&H Flat

Bruce Smith
 

Um Dan,

Nope. D&H #16153 bears almost no resemblance to the PRR F38. The D&H car has 4 trucks, true, but they are 2-axle and not 3-axle. The body is welded, true, but the D&H body is full-length, with no end platforms. The D&H car is broadly similar to the PRR F34 but is not the same as that car either. 

So, let's review...

D&H 16153 (no known kit)


PRR F34 (Athearn, Bachmann, F&C) - 187.5 ton capacity (later increased to 200 tons), 8 axle flat

ECW kit #4700 - PRR F38 - 250 ton 12 axle heavy duty flat


ECW kit 4800 - 90 ton depressed center flat car
 

As you can see, these are three VERY different cars. The D&H car bears NO resemblance to the PRR F38 other than being multi-trucked with span bolsters. On close examination of the D&H car, it appears to be similar to but a bit longer and without the obvious cast body flange of the pre WWII era GSC car (PRR F34, CNW, SP, etc...).

Bottom line, unless there is physical evidence to the existence of an ECW model of this D&H flat car, I'm going to remain skeptical that such a thing ever existed.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 9:11 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
The two cars are very similar, but not identical. Both have four 3-axle Buckeye trucks mounted on span bolsters. The PRR F38 has a main deck that extends almost the full-length of the car, with minimal exposed decks on the span bolsters. The D&H version has a shorter main deck, and much larger end platforms (“porches”) on the span bolsters.

The Eastern car works part number for the D&H car was 4700.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 8, 2020, at 9:32 AM, rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...> wrote:

Aren't the two cars identical? When first released the ECW car was advertised as a D&H car.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. 
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 09:18:51 AM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote: 


I'm with Tom on this...

I could be wrong, but ECW produced two heavy duty flat cars that I am aware of, the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed center car (NYC, NH, etc...) series 4800 kits and the 4 truck PRR F38 (series 4700 kits).

I searched with multiple terms and while the extremely hard to find F38 came up multiple times and the 90 ton depressed center car dominated, I could find no evidence on-line of an ECW kit for the subject car.

Both Athearn and Bachmann have produced the car in question in HO, albeit somewhat grossly misshapen.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Yes.  16??? Series.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about?

Tom Madden
 

Re: D&H Flat

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The two cars are very similar, but not identical. Both have four 3-axle Buckeye trucks mounted on span bolsters. The PRR F38 has a main deck that extends almost the full-length of the car, with minimal exposed decks on the span bolsters. The D&H version has a shorter main deck, and much larger end platforms (“porches”) on the span bolsters.

The Eastern car works part number for the D&H car was 4700.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 8, 2020, at 9:32 AM, rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...> wrote:

Aren't the two cars identical? When first released the ECW car was advertised as a D&H car.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. 
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 09:18:51 AM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote: 


I'm with Tom on this...

I could be wrong, but ECW produced two heavy duty flat cars that I am aware of, the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed center car (NYC, NH, etc...) series 4800 kits and the 4 truck PRR F38 (series 4700 kits).

I searched with multiple terms and while the extremely hard to find F38 came up multiple times and the 90 ton depressed center car dominated, I could find no evidence on-line of an ECW kit for the subject car.

Both Athearn and Bachmann have produced the car in question in HO, albeit somewhat grossly misshapen.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Yes.  16??? Series.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about?

Tom Madden
 

Re: Correction PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific or Union Pacific tracks?

David North
 

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I’ll pass your responses on to my friend.

Cheers

Dave

 

Re: D&H Flat

rdgbuff56
 

Aren't the two cars identical? When first released the ECW car was advertised as a D&H car.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 09:18:51 AM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


I'm with Tom on this...

I could be wrong, but ECW produced two heavy duty flat cars that I am aware of, the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed center car (NYC, NH, etc...) series 4800 kits and the 4 truck PRR F38 (series 4700 kits).

I searched with multiple terms and while the extremely hard to find F38 came up multiple times and the 90 ton depressed center car dominated, I could find no evidence on-line of an ECW kit for the subject car.

Both Athearn and Bachmann have produced the car in question in HO, albeit somewhat grossly misshapen.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Yes.  16??? Series.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about?

Tom Madden
 

Re: D&H Flat

Bruce Smith
 

I'm with Tom on this...

I could be wrong, but ECW produced two heavy duty flat cars that I am aware of, the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed center car (NYC, NH, etc...) series 4800 kits and the 4 truck PRR F38 (series 4700 kits).

I searched with multiple terms and while the extremely hard to find F38 came up multiple times and the 90 ton depressed center car dominated, I could find no evidence on-line of an ECW kit for the subject car.

Both Athearn and Bachmann have produced the car in question in HO, albeit somewhat grossly misshapen.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Yes.  16??? Series.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about?

Tom Madden
 

Re: D&H Flat

rdgbuff56
 

Yes.  16??? Series.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about?

Tom Madden
 

Re: D&H Flat

Tom Madden
 

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about?

Tom Madden
 

Re: Gibson Wine Company Tank Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Two photos of multi-compartment GATX tank cars lettered for Gibson Wine. 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Re: D&H Flat

rdgbuff56
 

Dave,
I do not know if it had decals. I would say probably not.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Friday, February 7, 2020, 07:41:51 PM EST, Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...> wrote:


Hi Francis
                Thanks for the info I'll have to search for one. Do you know if it came with decals? Dave

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:58 PM rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Friday, February 7, 2020, 05:36:39 PM EST, Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...> wrote:


Hello Guys
                    Does anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available or even a decal set for this flat car in HO scale? The F&C kits, as well as Athearns, version are different , but might work to a kit bash project. I believe the real issues is the decals. I can't recall any decal sets or models. Any help would be appreciated Thank you

Good Day
Dave Boss 

Re: D&H Flat

Bruce Smith
 

Dave,

This flat car was produced by GSC as a "kit" which a number of railroads purchased. On the PRR this was the F34. F&C recently released the F34 in HO, and subsequently SP and C&NW versions of this kit. Hold on a bot and you may see a D&H version, especially if you ask for it 🙂🙂

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 4:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Hello Guys
                    Does anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available or even a decal set for this flat car in HO scale? The F&C kits, as well as Athearns, version are different , but might work to a kit bash project. I believe the real issues is the decals. I can't recall any decal sets or models. Any help would be appreciated Thank you

Good Day
Dave Boss 

NKP Passenger and freight car information.

Brian Carlson
 

As part of my role as Collections Management Director of the NKPHTS I have started a blog highlighting different items from the NKPHTS that might be interesting to freight and passenger historians and modelers.

The blogs are short since they are meant to highlight specific items, and not be in entire article on the subject.

I’ve got about a months worth of blogs up so far so I wanted to send a general head’s up to the list. The first blog explains the purpose. It says I plan to blog at least once a month but I’m hoping to better that by one or two times a week.

Comments are welcome and should probably be directed off list. Prrk41361 at yahoo dot. Com.
Brian J. Carlson

Re: D&H Flat

Dave Boss
 

Hi Francis
                Thanks for the info I'll have to search for one. Do you know if it came with decals? Dave

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:58 PM rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Friday, February 7, 2020, 05:36:39 PM EST, Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...> wrote:


Hello Guys
                    Does anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available or even a decal set for this flat car in HO scale? The F&C kits, as well as Athearns, version are different , but might work to a kit bash project. I believe the real issues is the decals. I can't recall any decal sets or models. Any help would be appreciated Thank you

Good Day
Dave Boss 

Re: D&H Flat

rdgbuff56
 

Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Friday, February 7, 2020, 05:36:39 PM EST, Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...> wrote:


Hello Guys
                    Does anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available or even a decal set for this flat car in HO scale? The F&C kits, as well as Athearns, version are different , but might work to a kit bash project. I believe the real issues is the decals. I can't recall any decal sets or models. Any help would be appreciated Thank you

Good Day
Dave Boss 

D&H Flat

Dave Boss
 

Hello Guys
                    Does anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available or even a decal set for this flat car in HO scale? The F&C kits, as well as Athearns, version are different , but might work to a kit bash project. I believe the real issues is the decals. I can't recall any decal sets or models. Any help would be appreciated Thank you

Good Day
Dave Boss 

Re: Correction PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific or Union Pacific tracks?

Bill Keene
 

I think that the great flood in Kansas City was in 1951. 

We lived in Kansas City at the time of the flood. My dad worked in the Phillips refinery and was away from the house for several days. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Feb 7, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


What was the date of the infamous KANSAS CITY FLOOD in the 1950's?? I recall that immediately
following the floods there was an ICC car service directive regarding stock cars that lasted for
a number of months during which eastern stock cars were seen all over the midwest. The aftermath
of the flood was covered in a major article in Trains magazine.

Denver also experienced massive flooding of the Platte river in the 1950's. Such events can cause
long lasting disruption to freight car service patterns. (A more recent catastrophe being the UP's
"meltdown" in the 1990's that spread like a virus from Texas to the entire US.)

Tim O'Connor



On 2/7/2020 8:31 AM, David North wrote:

Correction-
A friend has asked if PRR stock cars would have been seen on Southern Pacific  or Union Pacific tracks.
I would have thought no, but thought I’d check with you guys first, before replying to him.
He models 1954.
Cheers
Dave


-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Gibson Wine Company Tank Cars

Tony Thompson
 

Gene Deimling wrote:

The Gibson car you cited in your email was built by Standard Tank Car Company.  It was a single compartment insulated 8,000 gallon car.  Southern Car & Foundry produced HO kits STC cars but not with this tank.  
You also mentioned Roma Wines. I have never seen a GATX car lettered for Roma in the postwar era.   

          Gene, I can send you such a photo from RIchard Hendrickson's collection.

Tony Thompson



Re: Gibson Wine Company Tank Cars

Gene Deimling
 

The Gibson car you cited in your email was built by Standard Tank Car Company.  It was a single compartment insulated 8,000 gallon car.  Southern Car & Foundry produced HO kits STC cars but not with this tank.  
You also mentioned Roma Wines. I have never seen a GATX car lettered for Roma in the postwar era.   

Gene Deimling 
--
Gene Deimling
El Dorado Hills, CA

Re: Correction PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific or Union Pacific tracks?

Tim O'Connor
 


What was the date of the infamous KANSAS CITY FLOOD in the 1950's?? I recall that immediately
following the floods there was an ICC car service directive regarding stock cars that lasted for
a number of months during which eastern stock cars were seen all over the midwest. The aftermath
of the flood was covered in a major article in Trains magazine.

Denver also experienced massive flooding of the Platte river in the 1950's. Such events can cause
long lasting disruption to freight car service patterns. (A more recent catastrophe being the UP's
"meltdown" in the 1990's that spread like a virus from Texas to the entire US.)

Tim O'Connor



On 2/7/2020 8:31 AM, David North wrote:

Correction-

A friend has asked if PRR stock cars would have been seen on Southern Pacific  or Union Pacific tracks.

I would have thought no, but thought I’d check with you guys first, before replying to him.

He models 1954.

Cheers

Dave



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Union Pacific Stock Car colors - FCR to Yellow?

Tim O'Connor
 

Dick

Darn it, you finally figured it out! I've been doing it for years. You'd be
amazed what I've been able to squeeze out of the "fact hoarders". ;-)

On 2/6/2020 4:16 PM, Dick Harley via Groups.Io wrote:
Tim,

Care to give me a page number in Terry's book?  I can't find your data in it.

I did notice that even the diagram in Terry's book (p. 145) for the S-40-12 class lists both AY and FCR side Color Schemes for the different series.

I'm beginning to think this is another trick by Tim to get Dick to do the research.  :-)
Just put out some bogus facts about UP or PFE, and Dick will jump in to correct it, since he hates bogus facts (from any source).


Cheers,
Dick Harley
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Correction PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific or Union Pacific tracks?

Douglas Harding
 

I have evidence of a PRR stockcar, either a K7 or K7A, being on the MSTL in Iowa. PRR 135263 was loaded with cattle at So St Paul, and shipped to Dallas Center IA on the MSTL, arriving on 8-8-1945. While this is not the SP or UP, it does show that PRR stockcars got west of the Mississippi.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Greg Martin via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 8:04 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Correction PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific or Union Pacific tracks?

 

David,

 

Certainly, if you understand stock car movements. Stock cars were generally used to transport livestock to market and that is well understood; however, stock movements were also used to move livestock from feeding/grazing lands/ areas in order to fatten the stock for market, as in the case of cattle.

 

Railroads were always behind the curve with stock cars, thus the reason for the leasing of cars from companies like Mather.

 

So to see a brace of PRR cars on the UP or SP isn't likely but the occasional would certainly be acceptable in your modeling.

 

Greg Martin

 

 

 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

 

 

 

Sent from AOL Desktop

In a message dated 2/7/2020 5:32:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, david.north@... writes:

 

Correction-

A friend has asked if PRR stock cars would have been seen on Southern Pacific  or Union Pacific tracks.

I would have thought no, but thought I’d check with you guys first, before replying to him.

He models 1954.

Cheers

Dave

 


--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin