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Re: I love it! Was: Red Swift reefers

Mikebrock
 

Denny Anspach says:

"…. the astounding current Red Swift reefer wood roof color debate (roughly 52 posts). I would suggest that it may not be the best idea to force understand of this long thread to close friends, colleagues, or spouses lest they suspect that our collective elevators do not go to the top floor (:-)."

Denny, I don't understand how you could miss the significance of the length of the Swift reefer roof color thread. I mean...surely you are aware that I am trying to promote a thread which exceeds the one on bananas back about 5 yrs ago. Only the unbelievable length of that thread keeps me from responding to Marty McGuirk's interest in old messages on the STMFC. I mean...should we allow a thread on bananas to be the longest ever put through the STMFC?

Mike Brock


Re: I love it! Was: Red Swift reefers

Pete Ismail
 

​Doc Denny,
 
You should see what's on some of the other lists.
 
Why, on one just recently there was a brief discussion of New York Central steam on Sherman Hill...
 
without any mention of an N&W hopper trailing. (Mandatory freight car reference, if the jail keeper may indulge me.)
 
Pete Ismail

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Anspach Denny danspachmd@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

This List has some of the most intelligent and critical railroad modelers that I know.  In this regard,  I revel in and am constantly amazed at the erudition, knowledge and the skilled rhetoric with which opinions are so smoothly argued  and broadcast each day about greatly important truly esoteric subjects such as…. the astounding current Red Swift reefer wood roof color debate (roughly 52 posts). I would suggest that it may not be the best idea to force understand of this long thread to close friends, colleagues, or spouses lest they suspect that our collective elevators do not go to the top floor (:-).


Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento
 


I love it! Was: Red Swift reefers

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

This List has some of the most intelligent and critical railroad modelers that I know.  In this regard,  I revel in and am constantly amazed at the erudition, knowledge and the skilled rhetoric with which opinions are so smoothly argued  and broadcast each day about greatly important truly esoteric subjects such as…. the astounding current Red Swift reefer wood roof color debate (roughly 52 posts). I would suggest that it may not be the best idea to force understand of this long thread to close friends, colleagues, or spouses lest they suspect that our collective elevators do not go to the top floor (:-).

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Re: Tony Thompson award

O Fenton Wells
 

Mike is correct, a very deserving person and one who drove the steam Era Freight Car Movement.  Well done Tony and thanks
Fenton Wells

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Tony Thompson award

Mikebrock
 

Congratulations to Tony Thompson for receiving the Guy L. Dunscomb Award...well deserved. BTW, Tony is one of the founders of the STMFC and one of a few who function as BODs for the STMFC.

Mike Brock

STMFC Owner...and owner of many of Tony's books


Friends, at last week's Southern Pacific Historical & Technical Society's Annual Convention at San Luis Obispo, Dr. Bob Church informs me that our own Tony Thompson was presented the prestigious Guy L. Dunscomb Award. This very much coveted and not-always-awarded honor is given “...for outstanding achievement towards the preservation of the history of the Southern Pacific Railroad and its subsidiaries."

As bears repeating, Tony has authored a five volume series of books covering all the freight cars of the Southern Pacific, as well as co-authoring the great ground-breaking history of the Pacific Fruit Express Refrigerator Car Company- the book that in many ways was a key ingredient in the primordial soup from which the concept of prototype railroad modeling arose.


Besides also being an excellent model builder, Tony has authored numerous authoritative SP freight car and other modeling articles, and he writes a popular blog on modeling of which many of you are familiar. He has been and remains extremely active in the SPH&TS as a modeling columnist in their publication TRAINLINE, and has served, and/or is serving as a board director, and past president.

In accepting the award, Tony paid tribute to also to our own late Richard Hendrickson, his long time friend and fellow model railroader as a huge influence in getting him involved in the important recording of railroad history.

Tony was and is an excellent and deserving recipient of the award, and I am pleased to make this known to the good Steam Era Freight Car listers.


BTW, the attendance at the this annual SP meet was 250- just for one railroad!


Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Tony Thompson award

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

Friends, at last week's Southern Pacific Historical & Technical Society's Annual Convention at San Luis Obispo, Dr. Bob Church informs me that our own Tony Thompson was presented the prestigious Guy L. Dunscomb Award. This very much coveted and not-always-awarded honor is given  “...for outstanding achievement towards the preservation of the history of the Southern Pacific Railroad and its subsidiaries."

As bears repeating, Tony has authored a five volume series of books covering all the freight cars of the Southern Pacific, as well as co-authoring the great ground-breaking history of the Pacific Fruit Express Refrigerator Car Company- the book that in many ways was a key ingredient in the primordial soup from which the concept of prototype railroad modeling arose.  

Besides also being an excellent model builder,  Tony has authored  numerous authoritative  SP freight car and other modeling articles, and he writes a popular blog on modeling of which many of you are familiar.  He has been and remains extremely active in the SPH&TS as a modeling columnist in their publication TRAINLINE, and has served, and/or is serving as a board director, and past president.  

In accepting the award, Tony paid tribute to also to our own late Richard Hendrickson, his long time friend and fellow model railroader as a huge influence in getting him involved in the important recording of railroad history.

Tony was and is an excellent and deserving recipient of the award, and I am pleased to make this known to the good Steam Era Freight Car listers.

BTW, the attendance at the this annual SP meet was 250- just for one railroad!

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Re: MIlwaukee Rib Side Boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Bill, what I did was use the familiar straight 18-ibch brass grab part and once it was installed made some very small trapazoides and then used a small amount of Testors to tack each in place. Once I was happy with their position I wicked some CA on the inside corner of each side to secure the trapazoides. These will be part of my presentation at Cocoa and Lisle in 2015.

I would describe the bracket grab used by the MILW on the rib side cars as a "solid' bracket as opposed to the more common "open" bracket.

Bill Welch


Re: pins to attach the new Yarmouth stirrups

Andy Sperandeo
 

Hmmm . . . brass wire, etched brass steps, I think I'll solder those wires to the steps before installing them. – Andy



Re: Red Swift reefers

frograbbit602
 

Rich Yoder said, Maybe I missed this along the way, but who built the cars for Swift?
Or did they lease their fleet of reefers?
In the best article, in my opinion, that I have found on Swift reefers,"REEFERS, STOCK CARS AND TANK CARS OF THE SWIFT FLEET" by Martin Lofton with B&W photographs from the collection of Richard Hendrickson in RailroadModel Journal, February 1993, it states, "during much of the steam era, the Swift meat reefers weren't owned by Swift & Co. At the beginning of the Great Depression, Swift sold the entire fleet to General American Transportation. While Swift's sale in 1931was known". In another section of the article it states that General American began to design and build in small numbers steel reefers ....made their way into the SRLX fleet in the 14000 series."
This article has the photos of George Berkstresser that have been discussed. And, on the paint of roofs, " Photos of roofs reveal replacement boards of varying colors, including red, treated wood and natural wood colors."
Lester Breuer


Re: NYNH&H Boat Race Car

ALLEN STANLEY
 

Thanks Marty,

I was more curious about the where. Never thought about rivers and was thinking bayside kind of stuff.

Allen Stanley


MIlwaukee Rib Side Boxcars

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Does anyone have a close up photo of the handgrabs used on
the sides of the Milwaukee rib side boxcars? They are not the
normal bracket grabs as marketed by Kadee or the older style
grabs modeled with a grab iron and some NBW castings.

Thanks for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: Red Swift reefers

Armand Premo
 


Chuck,Thank you for your kind offer.I'll be in Florida shortly to save you postage.Now tell me,how do you  apply this rot to a resin model? ,Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Red Swift reefers

 

Armand, Dry rot is self-replicating. Would you like me to send you some spores?
Florida won't miss them.  And they might have ancestors that rode FGEX cars.
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:44 PM, 'A Premo' armprem2@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 



Has anyone been able to replicate dry rot? Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Red Swift reefers

 

Not to mention that I might model a few months earlier before the replacement boards were added.
Or six years later when a couple more boards have rotted. 
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:15 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

​ 



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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Re: Red Swift reefers...and weathering (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

You guys bring up an issue that is very important in how "real" the end product looks. I have done starting points both as "as-built" paint, and "as weathered" paint, and I think the choice should be made depending on how easy or difficult it is going to be to match the lettering to the photo! On some cars the lettering weathers at about the same rate as the car's paint, and so if you are using washes or over-sprays to replicate paint fade, it is appropriate to have both go bad in tandem. However, if the paint fades or discolors badly, but the lettering stays fairly vibrant over that time, it is best to start with a faded base coat, then decal and go from there.

Back when I uniformly started with a "new" base coat, I had problem going back and making the whole car look right. It just wasn't possible in most cases to clean up the lettering.

With wooden components, the judgement call seems to be similar, but also includes the dreaded "board-by-board" decision-making process. On a car I finally finished, I went back after getting both paint and lettering where I wanted them, and added board-by-board weathering to duplicate the look of rotted and mechanically-damaged boards. Rot seems to be best replicated by a combination of browns and greys, applied with a very small brush; brown mostly deep into the grain of the boards.

My solution on a lot of this has been to stare at a photo for a very long time before writing down the sequence.

In some cases, it also requires doing things to the decals prior to application. One look at an older "Merchandise Service" paint and lettering job on the PRR will tell you why; application of fancy over-sprays of white and silver over top of the base coat had the effect of protecting the underlying paint. As the lettering wore away, the nice condition base coat was revealed...right next to the awful looking base coat over which no additional lettering/stripes were applied.

If any of you, individually, are interested in seeing a photo of a real subject on this latter case, just send me an e-mail off-line, and I'll send you the subject "challenge" car!

Elden Gatwood

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:15 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@cfl.rr.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Rich Yoder writes:

"Maybe I missed this along the way, but who built the cars for Swift?
Or did they lease their fleet of reefers? What I'm driving at is the need
for paint information from a creditable source."

But why? You seem to be suggesting that we start with a fresh paint job,
then "weather" it in various ways perhaps trying to duplicate the "weather"
process. In order to do this, it seems to me that you would need a final
objective...as in the 2 color photos we've been discussing. I would also
note that the cars in question differ. That is, there is obviously a
combination of some kind of reddish brown and gray/black colored boards but
they vary with each car. I understand that the final photo product contains
errors but since vsariations exist in these final products, I would conclude
that accurate photo products would also vary. Since these cars and their
photos are to be viewed under very different light sources with different
amounts of light, the best we can do is get into a "ball park". Given all
that, I would suggest that modeling the final photo product will work as
well as trying to duplicate the weather process. In the end, no matter what
you do, you're still going to be dependent upon a photo....I think.

I mean...at least the cars have red sides.

Mike Brock






Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Red Swift reefers

Charles Peck
 

Armand, Dry rot is self-replicating. Would you like me to send you some spores?
Florida won't miss them.  And they might have ancestors that rode FGEX cars.
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:44 PM, 'A Premo' armprem2@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 



Has anyone been able to replicate dry rot? Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Red Swift reefers

 

Not to mention that I might model a few months earlier before the replacement boards were added.
Or six years later when a couple more boards have rotted. 
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:15 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

​ 



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/1 - Release Date: 09/05/14
Internal Virus Database is out of date.



Re: Red Swift reefers

Armand Premo
 


Has anyone been able to replicate dry rot? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Red Swift reefers

 

Not to mention that I might model a few months earlier before the replacement boards were added.
Or six years later when a couple more boards have rotted. 
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:15 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Rich Yoder writes:

"Maybe I missed this along the way, but who built the cars for Swift?
Or did they lease their fleet of reefers? What I'm driving at is the need
for paint information from a creditable source."

But why? You seem to be suggesting that we start with a fresh paint job,
then "weather" it in various ways perhaps trying to duplicate the "weather"
process. In order to do this, it seems to me that you would need a final
objective...as in the 2 color photos we've been discussing. I would also
note that the cars in question differ. That is, there is obviously a
combination of some kind of reddish brown and gray/black colored boards but
they vary with each car. I understand that the final photo product contains
errors but since vsariations exist in these final products, I would conclude
that accurate photo products would also vary. Since these cars and their
photos are to be viewed under very different light sources with different
amounts of light, the best we can do is get into a "ball park". Given all
that, I would suggest that modeling the final photo product will work as
well as trying to duplicate the weather process. In the end, no matter what
you do, you're still going to be dependent upon a photo....I think.

I mean...at least the cars have red sides.

Mike Brock


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/1 - Release Date: 09/05/14
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


Re: Red Swift reefers

Charles Peck
 

Not to mention that I might model a few months earlier before the replacement boards were added.
Or six years later when a couple more boards have rotted. 
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:15 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Rich Yoder writes:

"Maybe I missed this along the way, but who built the cars for Swift?
Or did they lease their fleet of reefers? What I'm driving at is the need
for paint information from a creditable source."

But why? You seem to be suggesting that we start with a fresh paint job,
then "weather" it in various ways perhaps trying to duplicate the "weather"
process. In order to do this, it seems to me that you would need a final
objective...as in the 2 color photos we've been discussing. I would also
note that the cars in question differ. That is, there is obviously a
combination of some kind of reddish brown and gray/black colored boards but
they vary with each car. I understand that the final photo product contains
errors but since vsariations exist in these final products, I would conclude
that accurate photo products would also vary. Since these cars and their
photos are to be viewed under very different light sources with different
amounts of light, the best we can do is get into a "ball park". Given all
that, I would suggest that modeling the final photo product will work as
well as trying to duplicate the weather process. In the end, no matter what
you do, you're still going to be dependent upon a photo....I think.

I mean...at least the cars have red sides.

Mike Brock



Re: Red Swift reefers

Mikebrock
 

Rich Yoder writes:

"Maybe I missed this along the way, but who built the cars for Swift?
Or did they lease their fleet of reefers? What I'm driving at is the need
for paint information from a creditable source."

But why? You seem to be suggesting that we start with a fresh paint job, then "weather" it in various ways perhaps trying to duplicate the "weather" process. In order to do this, it seems to me that you would need a final objective...as in the 2 color photos we've been discussing. I would also note that the cars in question differ. That is, there is obviously a combination of some kind of reddish brown and gray/black colored boards but they vary with each car. I understand that the final photo product contains errors but since vsariations exist in these final products, I would conclude that accurate photo products would also vary. Since these cars and their photos are to be viewed under very different light sources with different amounts of light, the best we can do is get into a "ball park". Given all that, I would suggest that modeling the final photo product will work as well as trying to duplicate the weather process. In the end, no matter what you do, you're still going to be dependent upon a photo....I think.

I mean...at least the cars have red sides.

Mike Brock


Re: Red Swift reefers

pennsylvania1954
 

Good morning, Garth--You do mean SRLX, right? This Bud's for you!

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Milwaukee question

Clark Propst
 

Thank Ed!
Another question, I didn't see in either RPC 27 or 28 anything about the different hatch flange heights. It appears some cars have their hatch covers almost flush with the roof while most have a much taller flange. Did I miss that explanation?
Clark Propst


Re: Red Swift reefers

Douglas Harding
 

Rich, Swift sold their reefer fleet to General American in 1930, then leased them back from General American.

 

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