Date   

Re: Trust Plates

arved_grass
 

Exactly my point, Tim.

I took anther look at my two photos of the 8-48 built (40' Rock Island) PS-1s, and while I can't see the lettering on that corner, I now know what it says!
 
------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida


From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trust Plates

 

I think what stimulated Arved's question was that the WHOLE CAR is new.
So the fact that RI applied a stencil especially for the roof seems a little
bit odd. Kadee by the way faithfully included that stencil on their model.

Tim O'Connor

>It was common to so letter a car on the Rock Island when new roofs were installed. I have not seen pictures of another carrier use similar lettering. There is a decal for it included in the Rocket Express 50 foot single sheathed boxcar kit.
>gary laakso




Re: Private replies

Pierre Oliver
 

It's kinda like building kits, read all the instructions, scroll all the way down. :-)
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 8/27/2014 4:29 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Al, I don’t think it matters what ISP you are using, it’s part of the Yahoo message.  Scroll WAY down.  At the bottom of THIS message you posted, it says:

 

Posted by: water.kresse@...

 

 

Schuyler

 

 

It only shows up on mine when you reply to the group.  Al Kresse with Comcast

 


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 2:53:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Private replies

 

 

If you scroll down to the email you get from Yahoo Groups (including those from STMFC, where we talk about Steam Era Freight Cars, you will find the address of the person who posted the email near the bottom of the entire page.  BONUS!  It’s clickable.

 

Can’t be easier.

 

Schuyler

 



Re: Private replies

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Al, I don’t think it matters what ISP you are using, it’s part of the Yahoo message.  Scroll WAY down.  At the bottom of THIS message you posted, it says:

 

Posted by: water.kresse@...

 

 

Schuyler

 

 

It only shows up on mine when you reply to the group.  Al Kresse with Comcast

 


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 2:53:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Private replies

 

 

If you scroll down to the email you get from Yahoo Groups (including those from STMFC, where we talk about Steam Era Freight Cars, you will find the address of the person who posted the email near the bottom of the entire page.  BONUS!  It’s clickable.

 

Can’t be easier.

 

Schuyler

 


Re: Trust Plates

Tim O'Connor
 

I think what stimulated Arved's question was that the WHOLE CAR is new.
So the fact that RI applied a stencil especially for the roof seems a little
bit odd. Kadee by the way faithfully included that stencil on their model.

Tim O'Connor

It was common to so letter a car on the Rock Island when new roofs were installed. I have not seen pictures of another carrier use similar lettering. There is a decal for it included in the Rocket Express 50 foot single sheathed boxcar kit.
gary laakso


Doors, Ends, Ribs, Corrugations, etc.

FRANK PEACOCK
 

Gentlemen,  Andy Carlson brought up a good point via email and that is that I may be confusing ribs and corrugations.  I didn't think so but I think that I'll let our metallurgist, Tony Thompson, adjudicate on that question. In case I confused everyone else too, this is what I count: Ends- the raised things that run from left to right across the end.  Doors- the things that to me at least are raised from the flat surface of the door and also go across the door.  I have always considered these to be corrugations, but maybe they are not.
           As far as the ease of seeing the "raised things" v. the flat part, all I can say about that is that the ribs or corrugations (raised things) are the first thing I see.  
           I will admit that I never used the RMJ photos for reference.  I liked the text part- no. built, no. series, etc, but I got lucky a long time ago and found a 1949 Car Builders Cyc. on a road trip to Omaha.  That and I had my own collection of photos to study, so RMJ was not too key in my research.   
           I do on the other hand like yard photos.  If for example I can find an auto car in the photo, assuming that the full side is visible, it is easy to count the ribs(corrugations?)(see above).  If I count 19 then I've got a 676Ytn or if you will, YSD.  If I count 20 that is a 5555 or quad 5.  
          This is to me an interesting subject, but I try to remind myself not to get too wrapped up in it.  The purpose for me at least, is so I can see what is most common, what should I try to model.  It all started when I first began taking photos back in the 1960's.  No digital then guys.  I would think "what door did that UP box car that I photographed 3 days ago have on it ?"  With a simple notation (example: 6ytn676L) I would know in a glance what it was (In this case a 6 foot Youngstown door with 676 Corr, and a large space between the corrugations in adjacent sections.   This could go on forever so I will stop here. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)
           


Re: Trust Plates

gary laakso
 

It was common to so letter a car on the Rock Island when new roofs were installed.  I have not seen pictures of another carrier use similar lettering.  There is a decal for it included in the Rocket Express 50 foot single sheathed boxcar kit.
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 

Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trust Plates
 
 

This photo shows a trust plate used as late as 11/51, which is relatively late for most of us. Stenciled equipment trust plates must have been more common later.


The photo raises a question. The car was new 11/51. On the upper right hand side of the car, it's lettered that a new roof was applied 11/51. What's the purpose or significance of this lettering?
 
------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida
 

From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trust Plates
 
 
I think the painted trust info was a later development. Originally, trust information was found on cast metal plates that were riveted onto the car side.
      On both SP and PFE, they were bolted, not riveted. Of course it would look the same on a model.
 
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
 


 



Re: Trust Plates

water.kresse@...
 

I have New York Guaranty Trust Company stencil back in 1930 on a C&O AMC era repaint at Raceland, Kentucky.


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:21:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trust Plates

 

This photo shows a trust plate used as late as 11/51, which is relatively late for most of us. Stenciled equipment trust plates must have been more common later.


The photo raises a question. The car was new 11/51. On the upper right hand side of the car, it's lettered that a new roof was applied 11/51. What's the purpose or significance of this lettering?
 
------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trust Plates

 
I think the painted trust info was a later development. Originally, trust information was found on cast metal plates that were riveted onto the car side.
      On both SP and PFE, they were bolted, not riveted. Of course it would look the same on a model.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: Trust Plates

arved_grass
 

This photo shows a trust plate used as late as 11/51, which is relatively late for most of us. Stenciled equipment trust plates must have been more common later.


The photo raises a question. The car was new 11/51. On the upper right hand side of the car, it's lettered that a new roof was applied 11/51. What's the purpose or significance of this lettering?
 
------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trust Plates

 
I think the painted trust info was a later development. Originally, trust information was found on cast metal plates that were riveted onto the car side.
      On both SP and PFE, they were bolted, not riveted. Of course it would look the same on a model.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: Private replies

water.kresse@...
 

It only shows up on mine when you reply to the group.  Al Kresse with Comcast


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 2:53:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Private replies

 

If you scroll down to the email you get from Yahoo Groups (including those from STMFC, where we talk about Steam Era Freight Cars, you will find the address of the person who posted the email near the bottom of the entire page.  BONUS!  It’s clickable.

 

Can’t be easier.

 

Schuyler



Private replies

Schuyler Larrabee
 

If you scroll down to the email you get from Yahoo Groups (including those from STMFC, where we talk about Steam Era Freight Cars, you will find the address of the person who posted the email near the bottom of the entire page.  BONUS!  It’s clickable.

 

Can’t be easier.

 

Schuyler


Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

Tim O'Connor
 

lol, Frank, that's a good point to make.

For example, I've used Ed Hawkins' nomenclature for box cars because he
wrote a reference article that explains it -- A de facto standard! The key
for adoption of any nomenclature is a ... key (i.e. a reference).

The reference is Railmodel Journal, October 1999, pages 43-51

Tim

Gentlemen, I don't much care what nomenclature is used for freight cars, or as I explained to someone at Naperville a few years ago, I am fluent in 3 or 4 freight car languages, I even sorta made up one of my own. So I may look at you a little strange until I can figure out which one you are using, then I will be okay. (I checked the UPHS web site and my original article on "Box and Auto Car Nomenclature" was in Vol. 3, No. 1 of the Streamliner, and the article on "Box Car Ends" was in Vol. 1, No. 2. That would put them sometime in the 1980's I think.)
As far as "intuitive" goes, I am not too sure about that. We don't count "channels" on the the ends, so why would I (we?) count them on doors. So I count corrugations: as in 6 foot Ytn 676L, for example. That means (again to me) a 6 foot door opening, Youngstown door, and top to bottom: 6 corr, then 7, then 6, with a large space or long space between the sections.
Improved Youngstown doors are a little different, and I think I used a different method on them I would use today. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)


Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

Tim O'Connor
 

Staffan

Also to add to the confusion, the postwar doors have a raised stamping at the splice location,
so previously I had only been counting the small ribs in between the splices, or between the
splice and the top or bottom edge of the door!

Anyone want to create a PDF like Richard's truck document that shows all of the available
model doors and designates each one so we're all on the same page? I can do it but it may
be months before I could finish it...

Tim



I think (haven't checked) counting the ribs was first used in modelling artcles. It seems to me to be more straightforward than "counting the channels but not the splice channel".
 
The 6/7/6 (counting ribs) early Youngstown doors are surplus in the Intermountin GN twelve panel box car kits as those cars had either improved Youngstown or Superior doors. They are also a nice source for building MoW sheds like the GN did.
 
And, Andy, this is not a "T" door is it?
 
Staffan Ehnbom


Re: ADMIN: STMFC Policing policies

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Thanks for reminding folks.  And said in a way that nobody can complain or feel singled out.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


ADMIN: STMFC Policing policies

Mikebrock
 

Guys,
I have been noting that many well meaning members of the STMFC are pointing out to the membership in general various violations of the STMFC rules and simply discourteous behavior such as including lengthy, unnecessary parts of messages associated with an author's message.

I would point out that these well meaning messages are in violation of the STMFC rules. Note the rule:

"ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES. Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or
my representatives. Warnings about virus activity is strictly
prohibited. Threads or subjects may be terminated only by myself or my
representatives. When threads/subjects are terminated, members are expected
to avoid sending messages associated with such threads/subjects."

However, note that "Members may at any time bring any matter relating to
the STMFC to me privately for consideration."

So, if you have a problem with the operation of the group, believe rules are being broken, let me know at brockm@cfl.rr.com. I will then take the necessary steps to correct the issue.

Thanks,
Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

Andy Carlson
 







       

STMFC'ers

refer to the linked NKP box car picture.......

I use the term "Intuitive" for counting the panels (or corrugations) for ID purposes. Those corrugations have more area in the visual field than the thin outlining ribs on the margin. If looking at small, poorly printed photos (such as found in the pages of RMJ) the corrugations are much easier to see, hence easier to count.

It was mentioned that the Improved Youngstown doors were a different matter, though counting corrugations works equally well with both pre- and post- versions of YSD.

Some early YSD 'S' designs were very hard to differentiate corrugations from the splice area. Counting by ribs would give us something like "18-rib pre-war YD". Not too helpful. In such a situation, a closer look may reveal the presence of rivets and/or the thin horizontal seam, where we can determine that that is the splice panel.

Look again at the linked photo, and the corrugations (panels) are very easy to count.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

FRANK PEACOCK
 

Gentlemen,  I don't much care what nomenclature is used for freight cars, or as I explained to someone at Naperville a few years ago, I am fluent in 3 or 4 freight car languages, I even sorta made up one of my own. So I may look at you a little strange until I can figure out which one you are using, then I will be okay. (I checked the UPHS web site and my original article on "Box and Auto Car Nomenclature" was in Vol. 3, No. 1 of the Streamliner, and the article on "Box Car Ends" was in Vol. 1, No. 2.  That would put them sometime in the 1980's I think.)
          As far as "intuitive" goes, I am not too sure about that.  We don't count "channels" on the the ends, so why would I (we?) count  them on doors.  So I count corrugations: as in 6 foot Ytn 676L, for example.  That means (again to me) a 6 foot door opening, Youngstown door, and top to bottom: 6 corr, then 7, then 6, with a large space or long space between the sections.
         Improved Youngstown doors are a little different, and I think I used a different method on them I would use today.  FHP (Frank H. Peacock)
          


To: STMFC@...
From: STMFC@...
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:19:38 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 

Staffan-

Intermountain has two pre-war Youngstown doors, both are 5/6/5 doors, but the total height differences for the two is derived from the splice spacing. I use "S". "T" nomenclature for the short and tall variations. The "S" has the splice channel nearly the same spacing as does the regular, repeating door ribs. The "T" has a very obvious taller splice, which allows that door to cover the taller door openings of nominal 10'6" IH cars.

Great Northern's 1937 double sheathed, steel end 40' box cars were 10'0" IH cars, though GN used the 5/6/5'T' doors. The 1944 plywood 40' box cars also used these same 5/6/5'T'doors. GN didn't go to standard height 10'0" Youngstown doors until the 1949 12-panel all steel box cars, which used the post-war Improved Youngstown 4/6/6 doors, and shortly later their 10'6" IH 12-panel cars used the industry 10'6" IH standard 5/6/6 IYD.

I would like to know the thoughts behind GN's decision to lower their door tracks to utilize these taller doors.

Interestingly, on the 10'0" GN plywood 40' box cars, GN used "T" doors for cars which came with Youngstown doors. The superior door equipped plywood cars used a nominal 10'0" height Superior doors, evidenced by the placement of the lower door track higher up the side sill. Again, why?

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "'Staffan Ehnbom' staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 

I think (haven't checked) counting the ribs was first used in modelling artcles. It seems to me to be more straightforward than "counting the channels but not the splice channel".
 
The 6/7/6 (counting ribs) early Youngstown doors are surplus in the Intermountin GN twelve panel box car kits as those cars had either improved Youngstown or Superior doors. They are also a nice source for building MoW sheds like the GN did.
 
And, Andy, this is not a "T" door is it? 
 
Staffan Ehnbom
 


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 
Years ago, I had a long conversation with Dan Hall, the maker of South West Scale Models HO doors. He liked the idea of counting not the ribs, but the channels. He, like myself, felt that it was more intuitive to count the bigger element, the space between the ribs. The typical Youngstown steel door has three stamped steel sections riveted together. The 5/6/5 indicates the channels within each section, the 'T' (or 'S') is shorthand for the relative distance in the splice areas. I know that there are published references to using ribs to count, but hopefully that will disappear just as the inane counting of Steel end ribs from the bottom, up.

Easiest way to explain--you are counting channels, but not the splice channel.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 6:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 

Andy how or what are you counting on the door?

Just counting the 'ribs' separated by the flat riveted areas, I count
it as 5/7/5. Or counting the flat areas between the ribs (and counting
the top and bottom raised border) I again count 5/7/5.

I'm genuinely confused -- is there an agreed upon convention for counting?

I have other photos of these cars -- some have postwar doors. NKP 18204
for example has 3/5/5 or 4/6/6 doors depending on whether we count minor
ribs, or the flat places between ribs. I'm pretty sure Dan Hall makes that
door.

Tim O'Connor



Notice the use of the 5/6/5 'T' pre-war Youngstown door. this door was mostly found on nominal 10'6" IH box cars. To accommodate this taller door, the lower door track is hanging below the side sill tabs. The Great Northern followed this example on most of this era's GN 10'0" box cars.  I wonder how common this trait was with other class one RRs?

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=2472






Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

Andy Carlson
 

Staffan-

Intermountain has two pre-war Youngstown doors, both are 5/6/5 doors, but the total height differences for the two is derived from the splice spacing. I use "S". "T" nomenclature for the short and tall variations. The "S" has the splice channel nearly the same spacing as does the regular, repeating door ribs. The "T" has a very obvious taller splice, which allows that door to cover the taller door openings of nominal 10'6" IH cars.

Great Northern's 1937 double sheathed, steel end 40' box cars were 10'0" IH cars, though GN used the 5/6/5'T' doors. The 1944 plywood 40' box cars also used these same 5/6/5'T'doors. GN didn't go to standard height 10'0" Youngstown doors until the 1949 12-panel all steel box cars, which used the post-war Improved Youngstown 4/6/6 doors, and shortly later their 10'6" IH 12-panel cars used the industry 10'6" IH standard 5/6/6 IYD.

I would like to know the thoughts behind GN's decision to lower their door tracks to utilize these taller doors.

Interestingly, on the 10'0" GN plywood 40' box cars, GN used "T" doors for cars which came with Youngstown doors. The superior door equipped plywood cars used a nominal 10'0" height Superior doors, evidenced by the placement of the lower door track higher up the side sill. Again, why?

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "'Staffan Ehnbom' staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 

I think (haven't checked) counting the ribs was first used in modelling artcles. It seems to me to be more straightforward than "counting the channels but not the splice channel".
 
The 6/7/6 (counting ribs) early Youngstown doors are surplus in the Intermountin GN twelve panel box car kits as those cars had either improved Youngstown or Superior doors. They are also a nice source for building MoW sheds like the GN did.
 
And, Andy, this is not a "T" door is it? 
 
Staffan Ehnbom
 


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 
Years ago, I had a long conversation with Dan Hall, the maker of South West Scale Models HO doors. He liked the idea of counting not the ribs, but the channels. He, like myself, felt that it was more intuitive to count the bigger element, the space between the ribs. The typical Youngstown steel door has three stamped steel sections riveted together. The 5/6/5 indicates the channels within each section, the 'T' (or 'S') is shorthand for the relative distance in the splice areas. I know that there are published references to using ribs to count, but hopefully that will disappear just as the inane counting of Steel end ribs from the bottom, up.

Easiest way to explain--you are counting channels, but not the splice channel.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 6:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 

Andy how or what are you counting on the door?

Just counting the 'ribs' separated by the flat riveted areas, I count
it as 5/7/5. Or counting the flat areas between the ribs (and counting
the top and bottom raised border) I again count 5/7/5.

I'm genuinely confused -- is there an agreed upon convention for counting?

I have other photos of these cars -- some have postwar doors. NKP 18204
for example has 3/5/5 or 4/6/6 doors depending on whether we count minor
ribs, or the flat places between ribs. I'm pretty sure Dan Hall makes that
door.

Tim O'Connor



Notice the use of the 5/6/5 'T' pre-war Youngstown door. this door was mostly found on nominal 10'6" IH box cars. To accommodate this taller door, the lower door track is hanging below the side sill tabs. The Great Northern followed this example on most of this era's GN 10'0" box cars.  I wonder how common this trait was with other class one RRs?

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=2472





Re: Unusual Load - Old Telephone Directories

Edward
 

As Al Westerfield noted:
The LV cars were rebuilt double door cars, leaving the left door in place.  They had recessed straight side sills.  The car appears to be fishbelly.  This is most likely a B&O M12.  Pennsy took over B&O circa 1904 and for about a decade thereafter box cars followed Pennsy practice, opening to the left.   I offered an M-12 model.  Check the web site to see if it is currently offered.

The B&O M-12 class carried numbers 165001 - 166299, according to a  B&O March 1920 Summary of Equipment register, the earliest issue I have.
Built in 1902, they likely remained in that number series until retired.

B&O bankrupted itself in reaching for the New York metropolitan freight market. As the age of steam overtook sailing ships, ports closer to the sea than Baltimore or Philadelphia gained in importance. Steamships cost much
 more to run than sailing ships, so saving time to reach a port was at a premium. B&O was a latecomer to New York and had to settle for less than ideal locations for its operations.

To resolve the late 1890's B&O bankruptcy, financier J. P. Morgan put the B&O under PRR control, where it remained until 1905. B&O emerged from it as a better equipped railroad. It also put a number of PRR developments into new cars and locomotives for B&O, including the M-12 box car design as well as Belpaire firebox steam power.

Ed Bommer


Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 


I think (haven't checked) counting the ribs was first used in modelling artcles. It seems to me to be more straightforward than "counting the channels but not the splice channel".
 
The 6/7/6 (counting ribs) early Youngstown doors are surplus in the Intermountin GN twelve panel box car kits as those cars had either improved Youngstown or Superior doors. They are also a nice source for building MoW sheds like the GN did.
 
And, Andy, this is not a "T" door is it? 
 
Staffan Ehnbom
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 

Years ago, I had a long conversation with Dan Hall, the maker of South West Scale Models HO doors. He liked the idea of counting not the ribs, but the channels. He, like myself, felt that it was more intuitive to count the bigger element, the space between the ribs. The typical Youngstown steel door has three stamped steel sections riveted together. The 5/6/5 indicates the channels within each section, the 'T' (or 'S') is shorthand for the relative distance in the splice areas. I know that there are published references to using ribs to count, but hopefully that will disappear just as the inane counting of Steel end ribs from the bottom, up.

Easiest way to explain--you are counting channels, but not the splice channel.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 6:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 5/6/5 door or ? (was NKP 40' boxcar)

 

Andy how or what are you counting on the door?

Just counting the 'ribs' separated by the flat riveted areas, I count
it as 5/7/5. Or counting the flat areas between the ribs (and counting
the top and bottom raised border) I again count 5/7/5.

I'm genuinely confused -- is there an agreed upon convention for counting?

I have other photos of these cars -- some have postwar doors. NKP 18204
for example has 3/5/5 or 4/6/6 doors depending on whether we count minor
ribs, or the flat places between ribs. I'm pretty sure Dan Hall makes that
door.

Tim O'Connor



Notice the use of the 5/6/5 'T' pre-war Youngstown door. this door was mostly found on nominal 10'6" IH box cars. To accommodate this taller door, the lower door track is hanging below the side sill tabs. The Great Northern followed this example on most of this era's GN 10'0" box cars.  I wonder how common this trait was with other class one RRs?

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=2472



Re: RPC 2 and 5

Scott H. Haycock
 

Some people have a hard time dealing with the vagaries of Yahoo. I find it easier to hit the delete button, than formulate a scolding response.

Scott Haycock


 



To be so brilliant, why don’t members of this list understand what

OFF LIST

means?

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