Date   
Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Kenneth Montero
 

Andy,

Coors established a facility in the town of Elkton in Rockingham County, Virginia, in 1990's to do just that. Before then, it was "bootlegged" across the Mississippi River from the Colorado facility.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 5:57:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)






I heard from a supposedly knowledgeable source that what Coors shipped in tank cars was a concentrate to which the local bottler added water. So much for the Rocky Mountain spring water if that was true, but I offer this with the caveat that I've never seen it confirmed by any other source. When we first got Coors through a local distributor in Austin, Texas, it had been shipped in bottles and cans. (I was in on it from the beginning, because the distributor brought cold cases to the English graduate student's lounge at the University of Texas!)

But I also think Larry Mennie was right that even if true this practice of tank car shipment is too new for STMFC.

So long,

Andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Professor, Auburn University Brewing Science Program (Yes, we recently created an OFFICIAL Brewing Science Program at Auburn, and I really am, in addition to my major assignment as faculty of the College of Veterinary Medicine, faculty in Brewing Science. I love my job!)
Glad I didn't know about this when it was ME in academe, thinking I had a fun job. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Bruce Smith
 

Ok, so that's my cue <VBG>. As noted, beer could certainly be shipped in an uncarbonated form, whether concentrated or not. In fact, at the end of the fermentation process, beer is "flat". Fully fermented beer is naturally antiseptic (its true!) and therefore it should be fine if stored in a clean tank. In addition, the milk tank cars were insulated, which would keep the beer from being exposed to damaging temperature fluctuations. Once at the destination, the beer would need to be bottled or kegged and carbonated. There are 2 ways to do the latter, the first of which is bottle or cask priming where you add sugar (usually malt sugar). This only works if you leave some yeast in the beer and don't filter or pasteurize the beer...which is the way good beers are made! Or you can artificially add CO2 (which is the way Budwiser and Coors are made). You can tell a naturally primed beer by the yeast sediment on the bottom of the bottle, a thing that gets the appellation "real Ale" in the UK. Thus, I think it is certainly possible that the milk tank cars could have been used to transport beer.

An alternative use of a milk tank car in the brewing industry might be to transport yeast slurries or malt syrup although the latter behaves a lot like molasses and might need heater pipes to make it flow.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Professor, Auburn University Brewing Science Program (Yes, we recently created an OFFICIAL Brewing Science Program at Auburn, and I really am, in addition to my major assignment as faculty of the College of Veterinary Medicine, faculty in Brewing Science. I love my job!)

________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of Tony Thompson [thompsonmarytony@...]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 5:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: { SPAM 2 }:[STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for "completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

dahminator68
 

Not that this has anything to do with our era, but last I heard, Coors was no longer shipping concentrated beer in the tank cars.
They were sitting around east Golden for a long time, but I'm not sure if the tanks are being used for something else or what.
Andrew Dahm
westerfieldmodels.com


________________________________
From: Patrick Wade <patwadesb@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars


I'm a new member but I did Google Coors Beer Concentrate and found these
two interesting links, way later than the era we are modeling.

Coors Concentrate Tank Cars<http://www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/pvt-tank/corx/>

Bud Challenges Coors<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-01/business/9002140788_1_rocky-mountain-spring-water-coors-busch>

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Tony Thompson <
thompsonmarytony@...> wrote:

**


Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank
cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors
will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for
"completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally
carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our
list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Patrick Wade
 

I'm a new member but I did Google Coors Beer Concentrate and found these
two interesting links, way later than the era we are modeling.

Coors Concentrate Tank Cars<http://www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/pvt-tank/corx/>

Bud Challenges Coors<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-01/business/9002140788_1_rocky-mountain-spring-water-coors-busch>

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Tony Thompson <
thompsonmarytony@...> wrote:

**


Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank
cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors
will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for
"completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally
carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our
list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for "completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: Other uses?

George Eichelberger
 

I have a photo of one of the "milk" cars at the SCL Lakeland, FL RIP track in the early 1970s. I understand it was being used to ship orange juice concentrate some where "up nawth".

Ike

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

Orange Juice was shipped in Pfaudler cars...there is a Picture of EverSweet car
GPEX 977 in Model Railroading...1986...Sep/Oct...page25.....also several other
cars.....Larry Mennie




________________________________
From: Charles R Yungkurth <drgwrail@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, June 3, 2013 11:52:16 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?


Back some years ago when Bob Mohonwski and I wrote a three part article on milk
cars for RMC, I visited the Pfaudler Company in Rochester NY. Hoped to find any
information of the milk tank cars.

I was told that Pfaudler never had anything to do with the actual construction
of the cars. Pfaudler just made glass lined steel tanks and partly financed the
joint venture with Genral American. There was no one there who could really
supply any information on the milk cars. But there was a large photograph of one
of the cars lettered for a brewery to carry beer. Unfortuantely I can't recall
the brewery name.

The Chateau-Martin were former milk cars that were acquired by the company to
carry wine.

Far as I know Pfaudler is still in the business of making glass lined steel
tanks.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO

________________________________
From: "va661midlo@..." <va661midlo@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?



I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to
Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than
milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's
use of these cars besides movement of milk.


Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

--- In STMFC@... , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice
appreciated!


Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This
link should take you to photos:


http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it
arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It
was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.


Dennis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Andy Sperandeo
 

I heard from a supposedly knowledgeable source that what Coors shipped in tank cars was a concentrate to which the local bottler added water. So much for the Rocky Mountain spring water if that was true, but I offer this with the caveat that I've never seen it confirmed by any other source. When we first got Coors through a local distributor in Austin, Texas, it had been shipped in bottles and cans. (I was in on it from the beginning, because the distributor brought cold cases to the English graduate student's lounge at the University of Texas!)

But I also think Larry Mennie was right that even if true this practice of tank car shipment is too new for STMFC.

So long,

Andy

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

al_brown03
 

Not in the steam era, though the post after yours cites a more recent example.

AL B.

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:

Al

I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>

This is total speculation, but I'd be a little surprised if too much beer were shipped in bulk as opposed to in kegs. It's similar to the difference between bulk milk vs milk in cans, except milk doesn't go flat.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.




Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

Too new for STMFC but I believe Coors was shipping Beer East in tank
cars....Larry Mennie




________________________________
From: "@timboconnor" <@timboconnor>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, June 3, 2013 4:33:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint
color?)


Al

I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do
you know of any examples?


Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>

This is total speculation, but I'd be a little surprised if too much beer were
shipped in bulk as opposed to in kegs. It's similar to the difference between
bulk milk vs milk in cans, except milk doesn't go flat.


Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Tim O'Connor
 

Al

I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>

This is total speculation, but I'd be a little surprised if too much beer were shipped in bulk as opposed to in kegs. It's similar to the difference between bulk milk vs milk in cans, except milk doesn't go flat.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

al_brown03
 

This is total speculation, but I'd be a little surprised if too much beer were shipped in bulk as opposed to in kegs. It's similar to the difference between bulk milk vs milk in cans, except milk doesn't go flat.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., va661midlo@... wrote:

Tony,

It's for both - the car being a poor substitute for the liquid.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:53:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)






Ken Montero wrote:
Beer cars? I wonder if any were used for that purpose during our time period (ending on December 31, 1959)? If so, I'd like to model such a car using the Intermountain kit. I'm probably nont the only one, as the model railroad community has an affinity for beer cars.
Gee, Ken, I always thought it was an affinity for BEER. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CB&Q Caboose Waycar Trucks Coming In HO and O Scale Including P48

qmp211
 

We would like to announce our plans to release the most accurate and detailed
CB&Q caboose trucks ever offered in both HO and O scale including Proto:48. This
project was delayed with the production and release of The Burlington Waycar
Drawing Book. Trucks are back up on the burner along with some other projects.

The #7 trucks with a 5' wheelbase and 33" wheels were used on the 28' and 30'
wood waycars.

The #2 trucks with a 7' wheelbase and 33" wheels were used on most of the CW
class waycars.

Masters for the O scale #2 and #7 trucks are in final development for fit and
finish and should be available for shipment in about 90 days. The HO #7 and #2
trucks are in process and will follow shortly thereafter.

We used Solidworks to develop the 3D part geometry necessary to produce the lost
wax casting masters using stereolithography. Stereolithography yields the best
and most accurate models in the rapid prototyping market. Corners are sharp and
square and parts are highly detailed due to the high accuracy of this rapid
prototyping process.

Our all brass truck kits feature:
Wood grain beams in O scale
Correct brake beam hangers
Correct journal box lids
Sharp and crisp nut bolt washer detail
Casting information
Sprung and equalized trucks in O scale
Sprung trucks in HO
Correct wheel backside profiles in P:48

HO Scale
Part #13-8702 HO scale #2 Truck Kit 7'2" wheelbase truck with 33" wheels $35.00
Part #13-8707 HO scale #7 Truck Kit 5' wheelbase truck with 33" wheels $35.00

O Scale
Part #13-4820 O scale #2 Truck Kit 7'2" wheelbase truck with 33" wheels $85.00
Part #13-4821 O scale #7 Truck Kit 5' wheelbase truck with 33" wheels $85.00
Part #13-4822 Proto:48 #2 Truck Kit 7'2" wheelbase truck with 33" wheels $85.00
Part #13-4823 Proto:48 #7 Truck Kit 5' wheelbase truck with 33" wheels $85.00

Retail prices have not been finalized and prices are subject to slight change.

We've had several requests to offer the #2 trucks in 1/32 scale for the backyard
railroaders that want to build the CW class of waycars. This will be possible if
sufficient interest develops.

The use of 3D CAD coupled with stereolithography provides a superior source for
the creation of casting masters for modeling projects. We have a lot of things
planned for release this year including our line of O scale GP/SD Steam
Generator Detail Parts that are done awaiting instruction sheets. We will post
an announcement when they are available. Stay tuned.

Please let me know your level of interest in these trucks. I am not asking for
firm orders yet. I just want an idea of the level of interest in this project.
Email your interest to waycartrucksatgmailDotCom. I will be checking this email
on an irregular basis but do encourage your feedback.

Thanks.

Randy Danniel
www.TheBurlingtonWaycars.com

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated!

Brad Andonian

Hello Bob,

I have an "official" paint and lettering diagram for these cars supplied to me directly from General American. The body color calls for strictly Pullman Green with Dulux Gold lettering, the latter being a deep yellow color rather than a bright yellow. The diagram is very specific as to the sizes of the various lettering as well. New England Rail Service offers lettering for these cars that is based upon the Gen. Amer. drawings. There were two sets, one for New England & Northeast based lessees and another for Mid-West based lessees but the New England set is out of stock at this time. Walthers
carries them or they can be ordered direct at newenglandrail.net. Each set will letter five or six such cars. Additionally, there are two milk car groups on Yahoo. The one not mentnioned is NAMTA, the North American Milk Car Association.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Kenneth Montero
 

Tony,

It's for both - the car being a poor substitute for the liquid.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:53:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)






Ken Montero wrote:
Beer cars? I wonder if any were used for that purpose during our time period (ending on December 31, 1959)? If so, I'd like to model such a car using the Intermountain kit. I'm probably nont the only one, as the model railroad community has an affinity for beer cars.
Gee, Ken, I always thought it was an affinity for BEER. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Tony Thompson
 

Ken Montero wrote:
Beer cars? I wonder if any were used for that purpose during our time period (ending on December 31, 1959)? If so, I'd like to model such a car using the Intermountain kit. I'm probably nont the only one, as the model railroad community has an affinity for beer cars.
Gee, Ken, I always thought it was an affinity for BEER. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Kenneth Montero
 

Chuck,

Thank you.

Beer cars? I wonder if any were used for that purpose during our time period (ending on December 31, 1959)? If so, I'd like to model such a car using the Intermountain kit. I'm probably nont the only one, as the model railroad community has an affinity for beer cars.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles R Yungkurth" <drgwrail@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 11:50:43 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?






Back some years ago when Bob Mohonwski and I wrote a three part article on milk cars for RMC, I visited the Pfaudler Company in Rochester NY. Hoped to find any information of the milk tank cars.

I was told that Pfaudler never had anything to do with the actual construction of the cars. Pfaudler just made glass lined steel tanks and partly financed the joint venture with Genral American. There was no one there who could really supply any information on the milk cars. But there was a large photograph of one of the cars lettered for a brewery to carry beer. Unfortuantely I can't recall the brewery name.

The Chateau-Martin were former milk cars that were acquired by the company to carry wine.

Far as I know Pfaudler is still in the business of making glass lined steel tanks.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO

________________________________
From: " va661midlo@... " < va661midlo@... >
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?



I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" < destorzek@... >
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

--- In STMFC@... , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated!

Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.

Dennis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I THINK the IRM data plaque is incorrect about the tanks being stainless; that much may be true, but I was under the impression they were glass lined, the glass being fused to the substrate much like porcelain.
What are called "glass-lined" steel articles do indeed have a porcelain surface, which is strongly bonded to the steel. It would make no sense for the steel tank itself to be stainless, as the porcelain is the entire interior, although external piping probably IS stainless. The likely material for the tanks is in fact mild steel. The porcelain enamel lining is predominantly a glassy material, thus the shorthand "glass-lined." Bathtubs and sinks can be made with the same process.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

F&C Website DO NOT USE

Dennis Williams
 

F&C website hacked!! Do not use. Sharon will contact me when it is OK to use. I will post when it is up.
Dennis Williams/Owner
www.resinbuilders4u.com