Date   
Re: ?: 1937 AAR 40' boxcars

Greg Martin
 

One thing I noticed in his post he ask about a 40-foot AAR boxcar and
never tell us what the inside height is. If it were the 10'4" or 10'6" car it
would really open up to a lot more prototypes. He says dreadnaught end but
which design.

Brad can you tell us exactly what you have in mind and the answers will not
be so limiting. How about the inside height of the car and era built.
Murphy panel roofs lasted past World War Two.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

In a message dated 5/29/2013 4:52:37 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
@timboconnor writes:





None were built with 8' doors. The widest doors were applied to
some EJ&E box cars -- 7'9". Also some B&LE box cars got 7'3" doors.
Both were US Steel roads.

Tim O'

Brad Andonian wrote:
I am curious what roads had this version:

40' AAR boxcar
dreadnaught ends
8' Superior Doors
Stanray Panel Roof

__,_._,__
Strictly speaking, none. The Standard Railway Equipment Company did not
start calling itself "Stanray" until after the time period of this list.
For 1937 AAR box cars, both sharp-corner and W-corner-post ends are possible,
but I suspect 8-ft. doors were pretty rare at that time.

Tony Thompson






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Sunshine Order

Pat Wilkinson <glgpat@...>
 

I ordered (2) of the ATSF Gons and a transformer load.



I got the load and a gon but no refund on the other gon. I figure Tricia is
just overloaded and that is that.



Pat Wilkinson

Re: Sunshine Order

Clark Propst
 

I think assembly time depends on the fun factor involved. If you enjoy building kits, then you would probably spend more time than me. I like building them once in a while, but build them to use. Run on the layout.
Being retired too and only working on models while my wife was at work (she's retired now too) it took me 3-5 days from opening the box to setting it on the layout. When I retired I did build my backlog of kits, took two months. Was work by that time. Right now I have three resin kits in my 'to build' drawer. I may end up selling them, because I really don't 'need' them for operating sessions.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "Nelson Moyer" <ku0a@...> wrote:

Clark, it depends upon how much time you have to work on kits. I'm retired,
and I've built 35 Westerfield and Sunshine kits over the past two years. I
suspect the professional builders have a much higher rate. I was out of town
for extended periods maybe totaling 6 months out of that two years, so had I
been home more, my rate would be higher. I think two kits per month would be
my enjoyable limit. Any more than that would start to resemble work.



Nelson Moyer



-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
cepropst@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:08 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine Order






Ryan, You would actually build 100 resin kits? How long would that take?
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"rreed_eagle" <twogreyhounds@> wrote:


If a new caster took over tomorrow and opened shop, I'd have no problem
ordering 100+ kits right off the bat and I don't think I'm alone.

Ryan Reed




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?

Kenneth Montero
 

My apologies for sending a blank email.

The longer the train, the greater the opportunity for the violent slack action that Tony described. FELA claims for injuries to caboose crewman resulted from this slack action. This was one of the reasons for the push by the railroads to get rid of occupied cabooses.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:44:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?






Bill Vaughn wrote:
3.Regardless of what the rule said it would have been up to the crew to secure if they desired. All cabooses and passenger cars used the same key on every railroad as far as I know.
Not true on the SP in the days when cabooses were assigned to individual conductors. The conductor had the only key to his assigned caboose, except for the Master Mechanic's office. Maybe later in the pool-caboose days, they used universal keys.
I agree with Dennis Storzek: the bars inside the window were to prevent crewmen from breaking the window if they fell against it. Anyone who has never experienced slack action in a caboose has no IDEA how violent and abrupt this can be.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?

Kenneth Montero
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:44:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?






Bill Vaughn wrote:
3.Regardless of what the rule said it would have been up to the crew to secure if they desired. All cabooses and passenger cars used the same key on every railroad as far as I know.
Not true on the SP in the days when cabooses were assigned to individual conductors. The conductor had the only key to his assigned caboose, except for the Master Mechanic's office. Maybe later in the pool-caboose days, they used universal keys.
I agree with Dennis Storzek: the bars inside the window were to prevent crewmen from breaking the window if they fell against it. Anyone who has never experienced slack action in a caboose has no IDEA how violent and abrupt this can be.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Sunshine Order

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Clark, it depends upon how much time you have to work on kits. I'm retired,
and I've built 35 Westerfield and Sunshine kits over the past two years. I
suspect the professional builders have a much higher rate. I was out of town
for extended periods maybe totaling 6 months out of that two years, so had I
been home more, my rate would be higher. I think two kits per month would be
my enjoyable limit. Any more than that would start to resemble work.



Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
cepropst@q.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:08 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine Order






Ryan, You would actually build 100 resin kits? How long would that take?
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"rreed_eagle" <twogreyhounds@...> wrote:


If a new caster took over tomorrow and opened shop, I'd have no problem
ordering 100+ kits right off the bat and I don't think I'm alone.

Ryan Reed

Re: ?: 1937 AAR 40' boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

None were built with 8' doors. The widest doors were applied to
some EJ&E box cars -- 7'9". Also some B&LE box cars got 7'3" doors.
Both were US Steel roads.

Tim O'

Brad Andonian wrote:
I am curious what roads had this version:

40' AAR boxcar
dreadnaught ends
8' Superior Doors
Stanray Panel Roof

__,_._,__
Strictly speaking, none. The Standard Railway Equipment Company did not start calling itself "Stanray" until after the time period of this list. For 1937 AAR box cars, both sharp-corner and W-corner-post ends are possible, but I suspect 8-ft. doors were pretty rare at that time.

Tony Thompson

Re: more on Speedwitch's SP/T&NO A-50-4 auto car

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Dennis, glad I saw this before I began gluing things.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@> wrote:

If my thinking
about "mechanical advantage" is correct (it may have been high school
when I last thought about this--unfortunately), the large gear will
go at the terminus or bottom of the brake shaft more or less at the
front of the gear box and the smaller gear will go towards the back
of the gear box (and closer to the brake cylinder) to mesh with the
larger gear.
You have it backwards, Bill. All geared handbrakes were "force increasers" so the pinon (small gear) is on the driving shaft (the brake staff) and the large gear is the driven gear. This reduces speed, relative to how fast the brake wheel is turning, but increases torque.

I have a photo of one of these bottom of the staff gear boxes on a Soo Line car built in 1926, but it doesn't look like a three sided box, so must be something different.

Dennis

Re: Sunshine Order

Tony Thompson
 

Tom Olsen wrote:
#F2 - Lumber Load
#F3 - 70' Bridge Girder Load
#F5 - Baled Scrap Load
#F20 - Steel Plate Load for Diagonal Loading
Most if not all of the load kits went out of stock some time ago. I recall Martin saying he did not intend to re-run them.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Sunshine Order

Tom Madden
 

Tom Olsen wrote:

The last I heard was that Tricia intends to continue the line of kits
if she can hire a person to cast the kits. Unfortunately, we have
heard nothing in regard to this.
Tricia called about a month ago to discuss her options. She is *not* looking to hire someone to cast parts using Martin's facilities. Nor is she looking to sell the business. At least, not now. Rather, she would like to subcontract the casting while still handling the packaging, parts ordering, shipping, etc. She had several names in mind, all of whom are very capable resin casters. (It won't be me - I'm the same age as Martin.)

If Tricia does get someone to do her casting, it's pretty clear three things will happen:

First, her prices will go up, because there'll be another party involved who has to make a profit.

Second, only a few different kits will be available at a time. It makes no sense to expect your contract caster to do onesies and twosies of a large variety of kits. Better to make one or two mold sets for four or five models at a time and make as many castings as the mold sets allow, typically 30 give or take per mold set. Sell those, then repeat with a different group. This will let Tricia focus on small groups of kits rather than the entire Sunshine catalog.

Third, any model for which ancillary parts or decals are no longer available will be discontinued. All Sunshine models that used Champ decals, for example, are [were] discontinued when the decals run [ran] out.

Tricia seemed upbeat and in control during our conversation. But when I mentioned that I had thought of Martin the previous Saturday when I went by the location where he always set up his sales table at the Orange Empire Railway Museum, it became obvious this is still a very difficult time for her. Keeping Sunshine going is a way of keeping a big part of Martin in her life. (Those of us who have the privilege of calling her know that Martin's voice still answers the phone.)

Let's all be patient and supportive while Tricia works through the Sunshine backstock filling orders, and tries to set things up so some version of Sunshine Models continues in her, and our, future.

Tom Madden

Re: more on Speedwitch's SP/T&NO A-50-4 auto car

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:


I have a photo of one of these bottom of the staff gear boxes on a Soo Line car built in 1926, but it doesn't look like a three sided box, so must be something different.
... Which I've added to my "Soo Sawtooth Primer folder at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Soo_%22Sawtooth%22_Primer/

The photo is named "1926 Geared Handbrake". You can also see this part in the Pullman builders photo named "1926".

Dennis

Re: Sunshine Order

Clark Propst
 

Ryan, You would actually build 100 resin kits? How long would that take?
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "rreed_eagle" <twogreyhounds@...> wrote:


If a new caster took over tomorrow and opened shop, I'd have no problem ordering 100+ kits right off the bat and I don't think I'm alone.

Ryan Reed

Re: Sunshine Order

Clark Propst
 

Jim the kit I didn't get was either 39.1 or .2 Don't remember which he ordered.
I already mentioned the kit the person that placed the order did not receive, again I don't have the exact dot info... He may have ordered other kits that he did not receive. It'll be awhile before I have all the correct info.
The kit I guess I got is 97.6

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:

I f those of you who get disappointed by Sunshine would send me a list of
what they DIDN'T get, I'll flag my Sunshine website somewhere. Maybe we can
prevent others from ordering items that are not available.


Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
sunshinekits.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Sunshine Order

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

The last I heard was that Tricia intends to continue the line of kits
if she can hire a person to cast the kits. Unfortunately, we have
heard nothing in regard to this. Tricia has cashed my last order
which was sent last November and the check cleared M&T Bank the
beginning of this month. It was made up of loads, so I can only
presume that she will be able to cover some of them.

Here are the kits that she had no parts for and was unable to send me:

#87.10 - GATX Type 30 8K Tank Car - Staley

#87.16 - GATX Type 30 8K Tank Car - Union Starch

#96.7 - D&RGW 67500 Series 12 Panel Steel Box Car

#98.4 - ATSF BX41/45 Steel Rebuild Box Car

#98.14 - ATSF BX49 Steel Rebuild Box Car

#100.4 - ATSF BX40 50' Steel Rebuild Box Car

#F2 - Lumber Load

#F3 - 70' Bridge Girder Load

#F5 - Baled Scrap Load

#F20 - Steel Plate Load for Diagonal Loading

Apparently Tricia ran out of parts as some of these were multiples.
In each case, I received refunds for the unfulfilled kits.

All we can do is wait and see what transpires down the road. It took
Al Westerfield more than two years to find a buyer for his business.
Perhaps Charlie Slater has heard a little more about how things are
going. Like the Westerfields, the Loftons were always a class act!

Best regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

On 5/28/13, rreed_eagle <twogreyhounds@...> wrote:
You do have, under the Sunshine shows page, a list of the first batch of
kits Martin has announced as discontinued.
I was under the impression the big purge of kits below 50.0 was taking place
because Martin was overwelmed, but if Sunshine is sold in the future or
divided up into pieces, there's no longer a reason to discontinue all those
kits if a new caster(s) can manage it all. The spooky thing is if a new
caster is able to take over in the future, like with Westerfield, those of
us who are interested in ordering 30, or 40, or 50 kits in one sitting may
create a nasty backlog.

If a new caster took over tomorrow and opened shop, I'd have no problem
ordering 100+ kits right off the bat and I don't think I'm alone.

Ryan Reed

Re: more on Speedwitch's SP/T&NO A-50-4 auto car

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

If my thinking
about "mechanical advantage" is correct (it may have been high school
when I last thought about this--unfortunately), the large gear will
go at the terminus or bottom of the brake shaft more or less at the
front of the gear box and the smaller gear will go towards the back
of the gear box (and closer to the brake cylinder) to mesh with the
larger gear.
You have it backwards, Bill. All geared handbrakes were "force increasers" so the pinon (small gear) is on the driving shaft (the brake staff) and the large gear is the driven gear. This reduces speed, relative to how fast the brake wheel is turning, but increases torque.

I have a photo of one of these bottom of the staff gear boxes on a Soo Line car built in 1926, but it doesn't look like a three sided box, so must be something different.

Dennis

Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?

Michael Watnoski
 

Hi Jim,

I believe the bars you are seeing are prevent workers from being thrown into the glass when coupling or during rough handling. Although most (all) cabooses had locks on the doors, I have never found one locked.

Michael

On 5/28/2013 3:42 PM, jimbetz wrote:
Hi,

I've been studying cabeese recently. On many of them there
are horizontal bars across the larger end windows (the ones
next to the doors).
These occur on a lot of cabeese from different RRs. And also
in fairly early pictures (such as SP C-30-1s in the 20's/30's).
These look like they must be for "security". Which causes
me to ask the following questions:

1) Was there anything of value to anyone who wasn't a
railroader stored in a caboose? Flares? Fusees?
Switch keys? Food?

2) Was there a concern about vagrants/bums/hobos taking
up 'residence' in a caboose that was stored? (I might
have used the term "homeless" ... but that is way too
recent to be used on this list! *G* ... and also way too
sanitary/politically correct).

3) Was the caboose locked when it wasn't occupied? Standard
practice? Who had keys? Were all of the cabooses keyed
alike for a given RR? Was it locked when the crew went to
beans while out on the road?

4) Bars? I mean, really, ... Isn't that overkill?

Or were they just locking up the crazies (rails) inside?
- Jim Betz


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., MDelvec952@... wrote:


Lackawwanna used bars on the cupola window interiors as well, and company memos described the installation as a way to prevent a trainman's head from breaking the window in the event of a sudden change in speed. Some of the preserved cabooses still have these cages, and they're not exactly egonomic though they do have some spring action.
The Soo Line used two wood slats about 2" wide across the inside of the cupola end windows to protect the glass from flying bodies. On the few older cars that never lost their carbody end windows they had two or three round bars, again to protect the glass from bodies on the platform. I can't tell from the photos, but there may have been an equal set on the inside of the windows. These bars were of the general style used to protect the windows along the corridor in Pullman cars, and were to protect the glass not security. On the Soo cabooses, if someone wanted in they could just break the door window and reach in to turn the lock, or the cupola side windows which weren't obstructed so the train crew could lean out if need be while watching their train. When the Soo bought International Car Co. cars in the sixties, the end windows were safety glass, and not barred.

Note to John Sykes: The windows on postal cars had bars, either metal or hickory dowels, on the INSIDE, to protect the glazing from mail bags, as per Railway Mail Service spec.s. The door windows had wire glass, but no bars.

Dennis

Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?

MDelvec952@...
 

Lackawwanna used bars on the cupola window interiors as well, and company memos described the installation as a way to prevent a trainman's head from breaking the window in the event of a sudden change in speed. Some of the preserved cabooses still have these cages, and they're not exactly egonomic though they do have some spring action.

Old timers have shared stories of stoves being pulled out by the roots after some heavy banging around, a couple of guys referring to the wooden cabooses as coffins. One guy said "you'd call it a coffin, too, if you sat in one watching the nose of a three-cylinder engine barking at you. One high-low of if the caboose goes on the ground you're a gonner." These guys also claimed the caboose was the fastest accelerating vehicle in the world, that at the end of 80 cars can go from zero to ten in an instant. Somewhere I printed a negative of the wreck, but after a D&H Challenger in pusher service crushed a wood-bodied caboose in the early 1950s, the railroads in the east started making rules that wood-bodied cabooses had to be unoccupied if pushed upon, otherwise the pusher had to be cut in ahead of the caboose.

Each railroad had its own way of assigning cabooses. The Lackawanna assigned cabooses to regular Drills and Roustabouts (yard jobs and locals), and assigned hacks to some road conductors. Others were kept in pools for road jobs and work trains.

....Mike Del Vecchio

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 9:44 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?






Bill Vaughn wrote:
3.Regardless of what the rule said it would have been up to the crew to secure if they desired. All cabooses and passenger cars used the same key on every railroad as far as I know.
Not true on the SP in the days when cabooses were assigned to individual conductors. The conductor had the only key to his assigned caboose, except for the Master Mechanic's office. Maybe later in the pool-caboose days, they used universal keys.
I agree with Dennis Storzek: the bars inside the window were to prevent crewmen from breaking the window if they fell against it. Anyone who has never experienced slack action in a caboose has no IDEA how violent and abrupt this can be.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: more on Speedwitch's SP/T&NO A-50-4 auto car

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Welch wrote:
The scans Tony Thompson sent me are of a car with wood ends and show a different appliance on the end sill. When the SP/T&NO applied the Dreadnaught ends, they apparently updated the brakes with this geared arrangement.
Bill may be right, and perhaps Ted Culotta knew about that change. However, neither the SP car ledgers, nor any photos I have, support this idea.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Bars on Caboose Windows?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Possible Steve, but the bars are usually pretty light weight, and it wouldn't take much of
a load to make them superfluous.



Schuyler



From: Steve Haas

<<Tree limbs would break the glass.>>

Bars may have been used on end windows to protect the occupants from
shifting loads.

Best regards,

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA