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Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

cinderandeight@...
 

The Michigan Central leased (I think) former 50' composite box cars from the UP beginning in 1937 (151001-152000).  Starting with 100 cars and increasing to 200 cars in 1938.  They lasted on the railroad until 1942.  The cars had been converted to all steel by the UP at some earlier date, maybe Richard can shed some light on them?
    Rich Burg


Re: C&EI Wood Caboose #344

davesnyder59
 

Hi Paul, that is one great job on the caboose. Sure doesn't look like there is much left to do. Neat job on the lighted markers.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.


Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

John Barry
 

Eric,

Which 43 edition got re-printed?  I've only seen the NMRA 53 reprint and am fortunate to have one of the 43 originals, but it is in storage.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



From: "eric@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

 
I took a moment to review and compile the CN and CP 1943 ORER details. The listing does not include a nice and neat recapitulation listing, so here’s a rough count of only those box cars (XM) that are less than 40-foot interior length.
 
CN – 25,998
CP – 35,360
 
And here’s a little bit of perspective on these box car numbers. The 1943 total of the CN & CP less than 40-foot box cars was more than all of the DS & SS USRA box cars built and assigned in 1919 (49,500).
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 



C&EI Wood Caboose #344

Paul Hillman
 

I posted a photo of my HO scratchbuilt, C&EI Wood Caboose in the photo album

 

C&EI Caboose #344

 

There were 3 cabooses in this class, #'s 329, 344 & 347. They were built in 1913 and rebuilt in 1940 into baggage/passenger combination cars. I photographed #344 in 1960 at Dolton, Ill. and finally got around to building a model of it. Model still not finished but close.

 

Paul Hillman


Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

Eric Hansmann
 

I took a moment to review and compile the CN and CP 1943 ORER details. The listing does not include a nice and neat recapitulation listing, so here’s a rough count of only those box cars (XM) that are less than 40-foot interior length.

 

CN – 25,998

CP – 35,360

 

And here’s a little bit of perspective on these box car numbers. The 1943 total of the CN & CP less than 40-foot box cars was more than all of the DS & SS USRA box cars built and assigned in 1919 (49,500).

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 


Fw: News

Tom in Texas
 

Hi!      

News:  http://zirion.info/eo/magazine.php

 

texpearson@...


Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47

Robert kirkham
 

Ah, of course. When I made my comment yesterday I had temporarily forgotten the huge CPR Fowler/Dominion fleet. Was hoping for evidence of CPR double sheathed cars roaming off company lines. But a Fowler car makes perfect sense! Thanks Allen

Rob Kirkham

From: allen_282@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:24 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47



Rob,
It was just one,
1 CP XM 36' 170000-176999

Allen Rueter


Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47

Allen Rueter
 

Rob,
    It was just one,
 1 CP XM 36' 170000-176999

Allen Rueter


Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

Douglas Harding
 

Thanks for the correction Ray. I was quoting from Gene’s notes on M&StL freight cars.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: WWII Freight Movements to the Charleston POE

Ray Breyer
 

----- Original Message -----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: WWII Freight Movements to the Charleston POE
An article in the
Atlanta Journal of Labor in Dec ’38 complained that the Southern was buying new
box cars when it had 15 - 20,000 (sic 36’) box cars out of service that could be
repaired by its shop forces. That number seems high out of a total of around
24,000 cars but between the depression and bad ordered cars it was probably a
large number.
Ike

I can just about believe those numbers. One of the photos in the Barriger collection (SOU138) shows something like 75 deadlined SUs at Spencer.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12224791176/

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

Ray Breyer
 

Ray, last I checked (was there about a week ago) Burlington (as in the CB&Q)
was still on the Iowa side of the Mississippi. Though there is a Burlington
IL in the outer suburbs of Chicago. The Q did run east of the Mississippi

Oops; dur me. And to think that I live five miles away from the IL side Burlington too! (which is along the IC's Iowa Division).



The M&StL got rid of most of their less than 40’ boxcars prior to 1938, but
they did have one series that lasted till 1944. 26000 to 26418 (210 cars)
purchased used in 1938, they were ex-W&LE/NKP 36' steel ctrsill w/truss.
 Doug Harding

Actually, I worked with Gene Green a few years ago properly identifying those cars. They weren't Wheeling cars at all, but ex-NKP 25000-29299 series boxcars.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47

Ray Breyer
 

Gentlemen,
May I remind you of Ray Breyer's outstanding and comprehensive spreadsheet in the STMFC files, All Short Boxcars, 1930-1959 (Ray Breyer).xls .
It details 1,382(!) series of short boxcars by roadname, reporting marks and road numbers, with outside dimensions, cuft and CAPY, plus ORER
totals for each series in 1930, 1945, 1950, 1951, 1955, 1957 and 1959. It also includes spreadsheets on total quantities of all boxcars by roadname
for each of those years, and on HO kits that could be used to model short boxcars still in use post WWII, with the year last in service. That hopefully
should answer many questions on short boxcars; it certainly gave me a couple of hours of study to see what 36-38 footers might still be seen in my
Transition modeling era!
HTH, Dave Sieber, Reno NV



Thanks Dave. It took a lot of time to crunch those numbers, but overall the work was worth it, if for no other reason that the work finally convinced me that I really needed to backdate to the 1920s! (I like wood boxcars)


Since my numbers are already in the STMFC archives and pretty darned obvious, I'll just point out a couple of things:


First off, short boxcars are NOT some "oldeny-timey" affectation, unless you're modeling the sterile and homogenous “1950s to now” period of railroading. When I did my car count I was focusing on showing postwar modelers how they could incorporate a few shorter cars into their fleets, and only did a 1930 count as a courtesy baseline. And at the beginning months of the Great Depression, house cars shorter than 39'10" long were 44% of the North American fleet. By the end of the war the cars were dropping like flies, but still made up 14% of the US and Canadian fleet. It took the K brake ban of 1952 to finally kill off the American short boxcar fleet (it took the Canadian cars until the early 1960s to essentially disappear, although a few hung on through the 1970s).


Next, it was the Great Depression that killed off the short boxcar, not car age. While on this spreadsheet I didn’t look at short boxcars between 1920 and 1940 all that carefully, I have since, at least for the NYC, NKP, IC and a few smaller roads. In 1929 there were loads of short cars running, but by 1933 they were essentially gone. The NYC lost 50,000+ cars between 1930 and 1940, and the NKP removed almost 7,000 cars (half its boxcar fleet) between 1929 and 1939. The cars were all removed simply because of capacity more than anything else; railroads, in an effort to stay solvent, took as much equipment off the books as possible, and learned to make due with far less.


Some truly old cars did stay on railroad rosters for various reasons. In 1930 I counted 17,768 double sheathed boxcars under 36’ OL (which in general make them pre-1905 built cars). And these aren’t Podunk roads that nobody’s ever heard of either: the top five railroads in 1930 with SHORT boxcars are the Soo (5,863), C&NW/CMO (2,257), NYC Lines (1,697), M&StL (1,560) and CNJ (1,499). That 17,768 represents 1.5% of the US boxcar fleet (along with a few random Canadian cars), so according to the Nelson-Gilbert model Depression era modelers SHOULD have a few antiques running around (although, I highly suspect that they really were kept on home rails as much as possible). All of these were killed off by the Depression’s “Great Equipment Purge”, so if you want a REALLY old car running next to a modern 40 foot steel box, you need to model before 1933 or so.


Finally, after 1952, about the only American short boxcars still running in interchange were the ACL and SAL’s fleets of ventilated boxcars, and the small number of NC&StL rebuilt steel cars. So as a good rule of thumb, if you model the late 1950s but want one or two “old timer shorties” running occasionally, choose either a ventilated boxcar or a Canadian/Dominion single sheathed box.


Hope this helps!
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Contact information

Larry Wolohon
 

I spoke with Jerry, 352-259-9599, last Friday about doing some RI War Emergency Gondolas in O scale after I had sent him an email about doing them & not getting an answer. Jerry says that he is having problems with his new laptop with Windows 8, I think & hasn't responded because he is off line. He said that he can do the decals that I requested & he says that he hopes to get back online soon.

Larry Wolohon


From: "Anspach Denny"
To: "List Steam Era Freight Car"
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 6:54:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Contact information

 

A fellow modeler -not on this list- asked of me to help him directly contact Jerry Glow.  Does anyone know his phone number?  


My friend relates that he ordered decals from Glow,  sent him a check some time ago  -which cleared the bank-, and then………nothing, with no response to many eMails, etc.

If I am not mistaken, this seems to be a continuing issue.

Denny

  
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento







Re: New York Central Boxcar decals

O Fenton Wells
 

Great Catch, Thanks John
Fenton Wells


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:26 PM, John Riddell <riddellj@...> wrote:
 

CDS Lettering offers 21 sets for NYC boxcars.  Four sets include the triangle.
 
John Riddell




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

Bill Welch
 

Obviously I am challenged by geography, although I did not realize to what extent. I was going from my memory of articles by Richard several years ago covering SS 50-foot cars where he said--I am paraphrasing here--that the type was owned by Western railroads. I should have used that phrase rather than east of the MR. Still there is the pesky IC. Oh well.
Bill Welch


Contact information

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

A fellow modeler -not on this list- asked of me to help him directly contact Jerry Glow.  Does anyone know his phone number?  

My friend relates that he ordered decals from Glow,  sent him a check some time ago  -which cleared the bank-, and then………nothing, with no response to many eMails, etc.

If I am not mistaken, this seems to be a continuing issue.

Denny

  
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Alex

The very short and abbreviated history is that the first “CB&Q” was the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad Company formed in 1855 from the Aurora Branch and the Chicago & Aurora railroads, and referred to East Burlington in Illinois. (Later three other companies with variation of the name) The Burlington & Missouri River RR (in Iowa) was in operation from 1857 but it wasn’t until 1872 that the CB&Q leased all the company’s operations including those at Burlington on the west bank.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Alex Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2014 8:47 a.m.
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

 

Although there is a Burlington IL, doesn't the railroad name refer to Burlington Iowa?

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: Ray Breyer
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

 

????

 

Chicago, Burlington and Quincy were all cities in Illinois. The Q had 983 50' long single sheathed cars in 1950. 

 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Southern Black vs. FCR Paint

Frank Greene
 

Garth, sorry for the late response, but I didn't see anyone else did. The color change occurred about 1958 - '59 for flat cars, gondolas and open hoppers.

Frank Greene
Canton, GA

On 4/7/2014 4:04 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
Friends,

Can anyone give me an idea when the Southern shifted from black to red
paint for their open-topped cars? I have a few photos of Southern flats
and gons painted FCR, but in MOW service circa 1980. I'm interested in
something reasonably correct for the early 1950s, preferably 40' or 46' IL.

Thanks much for any help.


Garth Groff


Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

Douglas Harding
 

Ray, last I checked (was there about a week ago) Burlington (as in the CB&Q) was still on the Iowa side of the Mississippi. Though there is a Burlington IL in the outer suburbs of Chicago. The Q did run east of the Mississippi

 

The M&StL got rid of most of their less than 40’ boxcars prior to 1938, but they did have one series that lasted till 1944. 26000 to 26418 (210 cars) purchased used in 1938, they were ex-W&LE/NKP 36' steel ctrsill w/truss.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: WWII Freight Movements to the Charleston POE

George Eichelberger
 

Re the Southern Railway’s huge number of 36’ box cars in 1938-42. Fairfax Harrison, President of the Southern 1914-1937 was very concerned about the railroad’s financial health during the depression and was opposed to buying new rolling stock. The first all-steel 40’ box cars were purchased in 1938, after he had left office and died three months later in Feb, 1938. An article in the Atlanta Journal of Labor in Dec ’38 complained that the Southern was buying new box cars when it had 15 - 20,000 (sic 36’) box cars out of service that could be repaired by its shop forces. That number seems high out of a total of around 24,000 cars but between the depression and bad ordered cars it was probably a large number.

The older cars remained in service throughout WWII and into the 1950s. Although quite a few still sported truss rods, virtually all had been built or given steel center sills (SCS) or underframes (SUF). Many were “vents” used for peach and watermelon traffic out of the south. So, 36’ box cars remained in service on the Southern through the War because of economics and lack of replacement equipment to handle the huge increase in wartime freight traffic.

Ike

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