Date   

Re: (Very) arcane question of the day: Riviting side sheets

John
 

Actually your question is not so arcane. It is well known that two panel patterns were used on Pennsy X29 boxcars (I don't know if it depended on the manufacturer or the year built). I think Red Caboose models both of them and possibly a third pattern for the AAR cars.

If you are doing UPRR boxcars, the rivet patterns can drive you crazy. I have a C&BT shops car to do a B-50-38/39 (class depends on the door used) and it needs alternating center rivets. So there are two lines of rivets at each seam & one line at double the spacing down the center of each panel (thank goodness for Archer!). They did this to use thinner side sheets, apparently (I think they used Core-ten steel). I only wonder how much weight they saved with all these extra rivets!!!

-- John

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@> wrote:

WRT the 1937 AAR boxcar, would appreciate if someone who knows the overlap
pattern when steel side sheets were riveted to car posts would tell me the
order in which sheets were placed on top of another. Does the sheet closer
to the door overlap the next one further out or is it the other way around
with sheets closer to the end overlap the next one as you go towards the
door?



All I can tell from the engineering drawings is the rivet holes are 1 inch
in from the edge which should result in a 2 inch overlap, not which sheet
is laid on top of the other.



Thanks in advance.



Dave Nelson
If you use a magnifier and very carefully interpret the hidden lines in the general arrangement drawings presented in the CBC. you will see that all the visible plate edges are on the side of the rivet lines closer to the center of the car, therefore the sheets next to the door were applied first, and progressed outward from there.

The drawings in the Youngstown Steel Door section showing application of their doors to AAR standard cars show the same, without the clutter of all the hidden lines.

Dennis


Re: (Very) arcane question of the day: Riviting side sheets

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

WRT the 1937 AAR boxcar, would appreciate if someone who knows the overlap
pattern when steel side sheets were riveted to car posts would tell me the
order in which sheets were placed on top of another. Does the sheet closer
to the door overlap the next one further out or is it the other way around
with sheets closer to the end overlap the next one as you go towards the
door?



All I can tell from the engineering drawings is the rivet holes are 1 inch
in from the edge which should result in a 2 inch overlap, not which sheet
is laid on top of the other.



Thanks in advance.



Dave Nelson
If you use a magnifier and very carefully interpret the hidden lines in the general arrangement drawings presented in the CBC. you will see that all the visible plate edges are on the side of the rivet lines closer to the center of the car, therefore the sheets next to the door were applied first, and progressed outward from there.

The drawings in the Youngstown Steel Door section showing application of their doors to AAR standard cars show the same, without the clutter of all the hidden lines.

Dennis


(Very) arcane question of the day: Riviting side sheets

Dave Nelson
 

WRT the 1937 AAR boxcar, would appreciate if someone who knows the overlap
pattern when steel side sheets were riveted to car posts would tell me the
order in which sheets were placed on top of another. Does the sheet closer
to the door overlap the next one further out or is it the other way around
with sheets closer to the end overlap the next one as you go towards the
door?



All I can tell from the engineering drawings is the rivet holes are 1 inch
in from the edge which should result in a 2 inch overlap, not which sheet
is laid on top of the other.



Thanks in advance.



Dave Nelson


Re: NYC fonts

Clark Propst
 

Actually the Kadees would be my last choice because they have the placards molded on. The early Superior doors had the placard attached to a cross brace, not between them.

I solved my problem by selling the car to a friend : ))
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


Oh, I thought Clark was asking about the 10' cars. I think C&BT Shops also made 7 panel
doors (in several widths) for 10'6" cars. Front Range may have made some too, although they
are not as accurate as the Kadee door.

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>

Clark Propst asked:
"I want to renumber it in the 167xxx series. Looks like a complete
repaint. Those cars were built in 48 so body mods too.
Ed's lists says these cars had 7 panel Superior doors with evenly
spaced panels. Does anyone make such a door?"

Tim O'Connor answered:
"I think IMWX/Red Caboose made a 7 panel door for 10'0" box cars."

This doesn't quite answer the mail. NYC 167xxx are 10 ft 6 in IH cars.
How about the Kadee door?
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page2210-2211.htm

Southwest Scale Productions has wide 2nd or 3rd panel 6 ft 7-panel
Superior doors, but not the door in question.
http://southwestscale.com/Freight-Car-Details_c3.htm


Ben Hom



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


11th NERPM is May31-June 1 in Collinsville, Conn.

Dave Owens
 

First, if you have seen this email on several lists and are offended,
I apologize. The most efficient way to spread the word about modeling
meets is via these lists.

We have posted a clinic list and tentative schedule for the 11th NERPM
(aka the New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet), which is
scheduled for Friday and Saturday May 31-June 1 in Collinsville,
Connecticut, at www. neprototypemeet.com.

This year we’ll have two days of clinics and prototype programs on
Friday and Saturday. Thursday night the Peterson Railroad Museum, a
national treasure not widely known to those outside Connecticut, will
be open to early arrivers. On Sunday, we’ll have layout open houses
and possibly the Peterson museum open again.

The Thursday night program is open to those who have preregistered.
You can do so with the form on our website.

We’ll also have raffle drawings for prizes donated by manufacturers
and vendors each night.

And each day we’ll have an informal DCC roundtable, where attendees
can ask questions, bring locomotives they’re having trouble with, or
locomotives that need decoder installations. Bob Jensen and Joe
Andrews will also be able to answer questions about illumination. This
is not a formal program, but Bob and Joe will field questions as they
work on DCC projects.

Jeff Adam of Motrak will do a hands-on clinic Saturday on painting
hydrocal retaining walls.

The meet also features several terrific manufacturers and vendors,
including Atlas Model Railroad Co., Funaro & Camerlengo, Bob’s Photo,
Ron’s Books, Motrak Models, Rapido, True Line Trains, the Hobby
Gallery, Dave’s Trains, Short Line Productions, Rocket Express,
MinuteMan Scale Models, Stella Scale Models, the Penn Central Railroad
Historical Society and the New Haven Railroad Technical and Historical
Association.

Please check our webpage and please follow us at
www.facebook.com/NERPM for updates.

Any questions, please contact Dave Owens at neprotomeet@....



--
2013 New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet
May 31-June 1, 2013 (Always the weekend after Memorial Day)
Collinsville, Connecticut
www.neprototypemeet.com
www.facebook.com/NERPM


Calling John Hile

Bill Welch
 

John can you please email me offline and include you mailing address.
Your email address has gone astray on this end. I have something I
want to mail to you to complement your February 5, 1929 Icing document.

Thank you!

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
fgexbill@...


Re: NYC fonts

Tim O'Connor
 

Oh, I thought Clark was asking about the 10' cars. I think C&BT Shops also made 7 panel
doors (in several widths) for 10'6" cars. Front Range may have made some too, although they
are not as accurate as the Kadee door.

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>

Clark Propst asked:
"I want to renumber it in the 167xxx series. Looks like a complete
repaint. Those cars were built in 48 so body mods too.
Ed's lists says these cars had 7 panel Superior doors with evenly
spaced panels. Does anyone make such a door?"

Tim O'Connor answered:
"I think IMWX/Red Caboose made a 7 panel door for 10'0" box cars."

This doesn't quite answer the mail. NYC 167xxx are 10 ft 6 in IH cars.
How about the Kadee door?
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page2210-2211.htm

Southwest Scale Productions has wide 2nd or 3rd panel 6 ft 7-panel
Superior doors, but not the door in question.
http://southwestscale.com/Freight-Car-Details_c3.htm


Ben Hom


Re: NYC fonts

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst asked:
"I want to renumber it in the 167xxx series. Looks like a complete
repaint. Those cars were built in 48 so body mods too.
Ed's lists says these cars had 7 panel Superior doors with evenly
spaced panels. Does anyone make such a door?"

Tim O'Connor answered:
"I think IMWX/Red Caboose made a 7 panel door for 10'0" box cars."

This doesn't quite answer the mail. NYC 167xxx are 10 ft 6 in IH cars.
How about the Kadee door?
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page2210-2211.htm

Southwest Scale Productions has wide 2nd or 3rd panel 6 ft 7-panel
Superior doors, but not the door in question.
http://southwestscale.com/Freight-Car-Details_c3.htm


Ben Hom


Re: NYC fonts

Tim O'Connor
 

I think IMWX/Red Caboose made a 7 panel door for 10'0" box cars.

----- Original Message -----
From: cepropst@q.com
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:29:25 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC fonts

Thanks Ben.
I want to renumber it in the 167xxx series. Looks like a complete repaint. Those cars were built in 48 so body mods too.
Ed's lists says these cars had 7 panel Superior doors with evenly spaced panels. Does anyone make such a door?
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

August 1955. See summary on Terry Link's website (scroll 1/3 down page):
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm


Ben Hom


Re: NYC fonts

Clark Propst
 

Thanks Ben.
I want to renumber it in the 167xxx series. Looks like a complete repaint. Those cars were built in 48 so body mods too.
Ed's lists says these cars had 7 panel Superior doors with evenly spaced panels. Does anyone make such a door?
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

August 1955. See summary on Terry Link's website (scroll 1/3 down page):
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm


Ben Hom


Model Railroad Hobbyiest April Issue

Bill Welch
 

I am just getting around to downloading and quickly scanning through the April issue of MRH and I saw at least three articles likely to interest this group. I especially noted the first part of a multi-part article on Erie boxcars, something I know little about and an article by Tony Thompson on modeling signature cars. There is also an article on weathering with oils.

It looks like those of us that yearn for RMJ and MM may have a place to go to!

Way to go Dick Bale and the gang!

Bill Welch


Re: Stats on Cars Lost through wrecks?

Greg Martin
 

Bill,

The car accounting department of each railroad would keep track of all of
their companies cars. I am not sure but I would believe that there would
likely be a report given to the AAR at some point if a car was destroyed on
another companies lines to recover the cost of the car and if it were in an
unpaid trust someone would have to know so the car could be replaced. The
AAR maintained an amortization schedule for all cars and the settlements were
based on that schedule.

There were likely some stats but likely in the private roads archives.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

In a message dated 4/28/2013 6:18:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fgexbill@... writes:




Did anyone--ARA/AAR perhaps--keep any statistics on the revenue cars lost
because of wrecks?

Bill Welch







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Stats on Cars Lost through wrecks?

Bill Welch
 

Did anyone--ARA/AAR perhaps--keep any statistics on the revenue cars lost because of wrecks?

Bill Welch


Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 28, 2013, at 4:51 PM, moonmuln <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
Gene,
Thanks for the reply. Your info supports my supposition that the car wasn't intended for interchange service.
I suspect that the K brake valve was chosen as being simpler to maintain, and there may have been a pool of secondhand K gear that had been replaced by AB.
Jack, the best reason for using K brakes on a car built new in 1943 is that it was intended to be operated with other cars that had K brake equipment. K brakes set differently than AB brakes, and engineers who ran trains on mountain grades in the period before-during-after World War II had many tales of slack action surging in and out like a yo-yo after a brake application, depending on how many K brake cars were in the train and where they were located. As a result, railroad rights of way in mountainous areas (e.g. Cajon Pass) were littered with broken knuckles, draw bars, etc. If the army intended those cars to be operated in captive service at a location where most or all other cars had K brakes, it would make sense to have the new cars also delivered with K brakes, thus making train handling much simpler and smoother.

Richard Hendrickson


Bob Witt

Richard Hendrickson
 

Bob, please e-mail me; I've lost your e-mail address.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

Jack Mullen
 

Gene,
Thanks for the reply. Your info supports my supposition that the car wasn't intended for interchange service.
I suspect that the K brake valve was chosen as being simpler to maintain, and there may have been a pool of secondhand K gear that had been replaced by AB.
I rechecked the Westerfield 1945 ORER disk, and saw that I had indeed missed the War Department listing, which was alphabetically among private owners beginning C... as ~CWSX, USOX, USQX. I must have looked right past it the first time. All cars listed are tank cars of various types, except 16 container flats (AAR LF) series 16600-16615, which do not match the dimensions of the car in the photo.

Jack Mullen

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

The military - maybe the whole US govt. - kept track of railway equipment differently than the rest of North America. Apparently the number series didn't matter.

Dept. of the Army Technical Manual 55-208 has descriptions of quite a variety of rail equipment, all of which is labeled either "domestic service" and "foreign service." Army rail freight equipment was marked USAX (and later DODX) for use in interchange in the North America and USA for foreign service OR intra-plant use within ammunition depots and other such facilities. During the Korean War the Army bought a number of single-sheathed box cars from the M&StL and specified that the cars all have K brakes, not AB brakes. One of these box cars has ended up in a museum in Alabama.

When an Army office that controlled rail equipment was closed in St. Louis I happened to be handy and got a folder of photos of military freight cars plus a spreader and a snow plow. I just went through the folder. There is nothing like the car in question in the photo folder. I can't find such a car in TM 55-208 either.

The reporting marks USAX did not come into use until sometime between April 1947 and October 1948. USAX can't be found in the former ORER but can in the latter. I have none in between.

Gene Green


Re: NYC fonts

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst asked:
"I picked up a IM PS1 kit today decorated for NYC. The lettering is in
the newer bold font with a reweigh date of 58. I want to renumber the
car and will have to backdate the reweigh to pre 54.

But more importantly, I would like to know when the NYC changed from
Roman to the bolder gothic looking style font?"

August 1955. See summary on Terry Link's website (scroll 1/3 down page):
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm


Ben Hom


NYC fonts

Clark Propst
 

I picked up a IM PS1 kit today decorated for NYC. The lettering is in the newer bold font with a reweigh date of 58. I want to renumber the car and will have to backdate the reweigh to pre 54.

But more importantly, I would like to know when the NYC changed from Roman to the bolder gothic looking style font? Not a problem for me to re-lettering the entire car.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


USG RBs was: Re: GMO 40 ft. AAR 1937 Boxcar Question

Clark Propst
 

I have some of the Intermountain RBs, but will use the Plano USG if I have one. My USG rb cars are probably about 50-50 mix.
Clark Propst

I think the best looking version is the InterMountain, even though it doesn't bear close examination.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: USG RBs was: Re: GMO 40 ft. AAR 1937 Boxcar Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
I've got a question. If you're (meaning anyone of the same opinion as Tony) are modeling a car needing a US Gypsum running board do you leave the RB off, hoping that a satisfactory version will someday be made? Or, do you just not build any models needing a USG RB?
I think the best looking version is the InterMountain, even though it doesn't bear close examination.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history