Date   

GMO 40 ft. AAR 1937 Boxcar Question

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

I purchased and built two Branchline Blueprint kits of GMO 40 ft. AAR 1937
boxcars several months to years apart. Kit #1413, road number 22135, had a
steel running board painted silver to represent unpainted steel, while the
other kit (number unavailable), road number 22098, had a steel running board
painted black. The ends and roofs of both cars are black. Did GMO have both
painted and unpainted steel running boards on this series of cars? I don't
know whether to paint the black one silver, paint the silver one black, or
leave them alone. I'm a CB&Q modeler, and my knowledge of other roads
rolling stock is miniscule.



Nelson Moyer


Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

Jack Mullen
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:


Bruce, there are 40' flat cars with 80,000 lbs CAPY listed in the
1950 ORER, although #35066 is not listed.
But despite the ebay "40T" description, this car is stencilled CAPY 100,000 lbs. There are also some 100,000# 40' flats in the ORER listing you cite, but as you say, no #35066. The 3xxxx series is a heterogeneous assortment of flat cars with various dimensions and capacities, so I wouldn't venture a guess about whether the others are similar.

I checked the Westerfield Jan-45 ORER disk, but didn't find any listing for USAX or other Army reporting marks. What's with that? Did I miss something?
Tony Thompson wrote:

Note the trucks are spring-plankless. As Tim says, odd combination >with the K brakes. Maybe the car was REBUILT in 1943.
Well, maybe, but it's clearly lettered AC&F / BLT ?-43.
And cars rebuilt after sometime in the late thirties (1937?) were supposed to have AB brakes, as were cars built new after 9-1-33.

The side sill construction is unusual. It appears to be made from a fairly large channel section (18" or so, estimated from the photo, with the flanges outward. The channel is apparently cut away to form the taper and smaller section at the ends, which are reinforced at the bottom edge by angles riveted to the inner face. I don't recall seeing any other photos of flatcars built like this.

I don't see other rivets on the side sills, so I think the frame is generally of welded construction. The stake pockets appear to be weldments attached to the top flange and an angle bracket. Seems to fit 1943 construction, rather than a decade or more earlier.

We've had discussions of other USAX cars with unusual appearance or features which led to some speculation about their origins , but were determined to have been standard cars designed for use overseas. Perhaps this is another.
Use of KC brakes and USA instead of USAX marking could be consistent with intended overseas use.

Can anyone make a positive id?

Jack Mullen


modeling the '43 US army flat

rwilson1056
 

looks like a pennsy FM could be used as a start point... any other suggestions?


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Guy Wilber
 

Tim Wrote:




"I have a shot of NKP 88120 (not one of the ones below) with its
doors open, showing a load of completed automobiles WITHOUT any
wheels. The cars are loaded horizontally, over/under style. In
the 1959 ORER the note calls these:

Fisher Auto Body "SKI" Racks"

Tim,

It is 'most' likely an Evans racking system used for auto bodies...can you see the front fenders? If not, these were bodies typically loaded eight to a fifty foot car sans the frame and the entire front portion of the auto. "SKI" refers to the longitudinal frame members (rack) on which the bodies were positioned and loaded into the car which resembled a pair of skis attached by cross members. After placement of the auto body the racks were loaded into specially equipped cars and secured with locking pins slid into perforated horizontal plates and vertical up-rites.

"It appears to be a much earlier car (I think it has a Viking roof)
but it does illustrate racks other than Evans Auto-Loaders. The car
is also listed in 1950, and 1955, but without the colorful description
of the racks."

I doubt it the system was installed prior to 1956, but your photo date might tell a different story. There were no other racks for completed automobiles and light trucks other than Evans and the NYC racks of which less than 300 of the latter remained in operation by the late 1940's.


Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

caboose9792@...
 

Given that wartime restrictions in 1943, it was possible that some old car
was pulled out of a deadline or the builder had to make do with what was on
hand. If the car was a war baby, there should be documentation by the
production control boards.

Mark Rickert

In a message dated 4/25/2013 10:12:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
@timboconnor writes:

Bruce, there are 40' flat cars with 80,000 lbs CAPY listed in the
1950 ORER, although #35066 is not listed. There are none of this
size listed in the 1955 ORER.

I agree this car could have travelled in interchange service.

Tim O'


MOW equipment

Douglas Harding
 

Not exactly freight cars, but the contents are great. A Google book
downloadable Railway Track & Structures Cyclopedia c. 1921. 900 pages of
suppliers and equipment.



http://books.google.com/books?id=pMk7AAAAMAAJ
<http://books.google.com/books?id=pMk7AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA658&dq=railroad+%22motor
+car%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=g0idT4u-CIq-twf_jJmmBA&ved=0CHcQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q&f
=false>
&pg=PA658&dq=railroad+%22motor+car%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=g0idT4u-CIq-twf_jJmmBA&v
ed=0CHcQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q&f=false



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

Thomas Baker
 

To the Shakers and Takers,

You who model in HO have so many options that we who model S scale lack. Sometimes though we have the opportunity to emulate what you do because a particular offering on the S-scale market allows modification, and additional parts are available. This is the case with the American Models S-scale box car. The car has the diagonal panel roof and ends very close to those on the KCS prototype. It is, however, a car of 10' 0" IH and thus requires modification.

Another S-scale modeler and I have tried the shake-and-take approach using this car. I tried to gain the added 6" for the IH by adding that measure to the bottom of the side panels and adding a new floor and underframe. Fortunately, Jerry Glow made the KCS decals scaled to S available to us. I have also found many of Ted Culotta's articles in RMC an inspiration for modifications to available S-scale equipment. Although I am satisfied with my tweaking of the S-scale car, I would probably make a few changes if I had it to do over again.

Tom Baker
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of George Corral [g.corral@...]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 10:37 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:

George,

There has been several variations of my original concept and I see that as
a good thing as at least we are at the bench and working creatively. That
is exactly what SHAKE_N_TAKE was designed to do.

Mont (not Mort) cut the underframe of the Branchline car away, seems like a
lot of work to me just to get to the ends if that is what is really
needed and you can buy them separately and Andy Carlson (on this list ) just may
be able to come up with them.

Stand Rydarowicz used a C&BT Shops car body instead of the other two
alternatives and I don't think a soul in Cocoa Beach likely caught the
difference from the Branchline car. The C&T Shops car has a separate
floor/underframe. I have no objections to the original C&BT Shops cars and I have many to
finish.

Regardless of whose carbody you try to marriage the ACCURAIL underframe to
you are going to have to fill a four inch gap in both sides of the car if
my memory serves me. I would have to review my handout which you can do by
joining the SHAKE_N_TAKE Yahoo Group (shameless plug).

One reason for choosing the ACCURAIL car as a starting point is the
incredibly well detailed door and the accuracy of the diagonal panel roof. Some
don't like the cast on end and side ladders but I think that there are ways
to deal with that as we revealed in the presentation, replace the ends with
Branchline and remove the ladders from the sides.

George, there is several ways to skin a cat as we all know. Go skin the cat
and share with us as you do.

Greg Martin


Thank you, Greg for shedding lots more light on this subject.

First, I want to apologize to Montfort Switzer for calling him Mort. Seems I got the "R" sound going in there somehow. My bad!

Second, running in from right field, with my poor vision, I can't see what left field is doing. You have succinctly pointed out other options as to how to proceed with this project.

Next, I AM a member of the Shake-N-Take community but obviously I don't know how to use it probably yet - my bad. I simply missed the file on this project. I must confess that one, I'm just learning how to do research and two, I can't see the forest 'cause of all the trees in the way. I certainly should've posted my questions on the Shake-N-Take group for this one.

Last, I like cats. Some of them are my best friends so I wouldn't want to skin any of them. But, I will re-think my approach to this particular project. It sure would have been nice if all this information would have been available somewhere, somehow. Of course, nothing ventured, nothing ventured I always say.

So much to learn and so little time. Thank you one and all for the great information.

George Corral



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

George Corral <g.corral@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:

George,

There has been several variations of my original concept and I see that as
a good thing as at least we are at the bench and working creatively. That
is exactly what SHAKE_N_TAKE was designed to do.

Mont (not Mort) cut the underframe of the Branchline car away, seems like a
lot of work to me just to get to the ends if that is what is really
needed and you can buy them separately and Andy Carlson (on this list ) just may
be able to come up with them.

Stand Rydarowicz used a C&BT Shops car body instead of the other two
alternatives and I don't think a soul in Cocoa Beach likely caught the
difference from the Branchline car. The C&T Shops car has a separate
floor/underframe. I have no objections to the original C&BT Shops cars and I have many to
finish.

Regardless of whose carbody you try to marriage the ACCURAIL underframe to
you are going to have to fill a four inch gap in both sides of the car if
my memory serves me. I would have to review my handout which you can do by
joining the SHAKE_N_TAKE Yahoo Group (shameless plug).

One reason for choosing the ACCURAIL car as a starting point is the
incredibly well detailed door and the accuracy of the diagonal panel roof. Some
don't like the cast on end and side ladders but I think that there are ways
to deal with that as we revealed in the presentation, replace the ends with
Branchline and remove the ladders from the sides.

George, there is several ways to skin a cat as we all know. Go skin the cat
and share with us as you do.

Greg Martin


Thank you, Greg for shedding lots more light on this subject.

First, I want to apologize to Montfort Switzer for calling him Mort. Seems I got the "R" sound going in there somehow. My bad!

Second, running in from right field, with my poor vision, I can't see what left field is doing. You have succinctly pointed out other options as to how to proceed with this project.

Next, I AM a member of the Shake-N-Take community but obviously I don't know how to use it probably yet - my bad. I simply missed the file on this project. I must confess that one, I'm just learning how to do research and two, I can't see the forest 'cause of all the trees in the way. I certainly should've posted my questions on the Shake-N-Take group for this one.

Last, I like cats. Some of them are my best friends so I wouldn't want to skin any of them. But, I will re-think my approach to this particular project. It sure would have been nice if all this information would have been available somewhere, somehow. Of course, nothing ventured, nothing ventured I always say.

So much to learn and so little time. Thank you one and all for the great information.

George Corral


Re: KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

Greg Martin
 

George,

There has been several variations of my original concept and I see that as
a good thing as at least we are at the bench and working creatively. That
is exactly what SHAKE_N_TAKE was designed to do.

Mont (not Mort) cut the underframe of the Branchline car away, seems like a
lot of work to me just to get to the ends if that is what is really
needed and you can buy them separately and Andy Carlson (on this list ) just may
be able to come up with them.

Stand Rydarowicz used a C&BT Shops car body instead of the other two
alternatives and I don't think a soul in Cocoa Beach likely caught the
difference from the Branchline car. The C&T Shops car has a separate
floor/underframe. I have no objections to the original C&BT Shops cars and I have many to
finish.

Regardless of whose carbody you try to marriage the ACCURAIL underframe to
you are going to have to fill a four inch gap in both sides of the car if
my memory serves me. I would have to review my handout which you can do by
joining the SHAKE_N_TAKE Yahoo Group (shameless plug).

One reason for choosing the ACCURAIL car as a starting point is the
incredibly well detailed door and the accuracy of the diagonal panel roof. Some
don't like the cast on end and side ladders but I think that there are ways
to deal with that as we revealed in the presentation, replace the ends with
Branchline and remove the ladders from the sides.

George, there is several ways to skin a cat as we all know. Go skin the cat
and share with us as you do.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

In a message dated 4/25/2013 12:56:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
g.corral@... writes:

Thanks, Brian.

I was afraid of that but could see no other way of doing it. The Accurail
underframe is a tad too long and a tad too narrow. I have a set of Charlie
Boas resin side sills on the way and they'll close the gap a bit. I'll have
to see.

Thanks again for the info, Brian.

George Corral
La Grange, KY
The Train Runs Through It.


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Tim O'Connor
 

I have a shot of NKP 88120 (not one of the ones below) with its
doors open, showing a load of completed automobiles WITHOUT any
wheels. The cars are loaded horizontally, over/under style. In
the 1959 ORER the note calls these:

Fisher Auto Body "SKI" Racks

It appears to be a much earlier car (I think it has a Viking roof)
but it does illustrate racks other than Evans Auto-Loaders. The car
is also listed in 1950, and 1955, but without the colorful description
of the racks.

I think later the NKP applied "ZU eave" (overhanging eave) roofs to
new cars. Would that have added a couple of inches to the inside height
of box cars?

Tim O'

I have confirmed the following cars having the combination diagonal
panel/Murphy panel roofs. There were probably more. All were auto cars
with 15' wide door openings built new with these roofs. You have
already referenced Tony's book and some specific SP cars.

D&TS 5000-5099, 2-55, Greenville
MP 88900-88999, 6-57, MP
NJI&I 3300-3399, 1-51, ACF
NKP 86100-86249, 12-49, ACF
NKP 86200-86349, 1-55, Greenville
Numerous SP cars, 1950-1956, all built by SP
WAB 19800-19999, 5-53, ACF
WAB 20000-20199,

Other than the SP cars, none of the above cars were equipped with Auto~Loaders. The balance were in parts service.

Whether, or not, the cars were purchased by the respective roads contemplating installation of Auto~Loaders I do not know. Until Evans developed the Type "F" with a boom hoist and the Type "G" the rectangular panel was required to facilitate the supports for the lifting sheave hanger frame and the similar frame that supported the safety hook assembly used to secure the racks when stored against the roof of cars.

Evidently, Evans lift assemblies were also used within auto parts cars utilized for shipping car bodies. I have some literature on the system but have yet to find a complete installation drawing. I believe that may offer another connection to the mixed panel roofs.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce, there are 40' flat cars with 80,000 lbs CAPY listed in the
1950 ORER, although #35066 is not listed. There are none of this
size listed in the 1955 ORER.

I agree this car could have travelled in interchange service.

Tim O'

At 4/25/2013 03:30 PM Thursday, you wrote:
Tim,

Off list. Is it in the ORER? That KC brake is weird! I'm betting that it could be used in interchange as it has all the correct interchange markings.

Regards
Bruce

On Apr 25, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Did these flat cars ever get into interchange service?
Am I reading the the built date correctly -- 1943? if so
it seems very retro for that date, including KC brakes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121061736503

Check the seller's other completed listings -- some nice
stuff in there.

Tim O'Connor


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Guy Wilber
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:





Dave,
I have confirmed the following cars having the combination diagonal
panel/Murphy panel roofs. There were probably more. All were auto cars
with 15' wide door openings built new with these roofs. You have
already referenced Tony's book and some specific SP cars.

D&TS 5000-5099, 2-55, Greenville
MP 88900-88999, 6-57, MP
NJI&I 3300-3399, 1-51, ACF
NKP 86100-86249, 12-49, ACF
NKP 86200-86349, 1-55, Greenville
Numerous SP cars, 1950-1956, all built by SP
WAB 19800-19999, 5-53, ACF
WAB 20000-20199,






Ed,


Other than the SP cars, none of the above cars were equipped with Auto~Loaders. The balance were in parts service.

Whether, or not, the cars were purchased by the respective roads contemplating installation of Auto~Loaders I do not know. Until Evans developed the Type "F" with a boom hoist and the Type "G" the rectangular panel was required to facilitate the supports for the lifting sheave hanger frame and the similar frame that supported the safety hook assembly used to secure the racks when stored against the roof of cars.

Evidently, Evans lift assemblies were also used within auto parts cars utilized for shipping car bodies. I have some literature on the system but have yet to find a complete installation drawing. I believe that may offer another connection to the mixed panel roofs.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

George Corral <g.corral@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Brian carlson <prrk41361@...> wrote:

George:
I did the same kitbash as mont. I used a dremel (on low you want to cut not melt)to remove the entire floor and then cleaned up the sides with a file then use styrene to create a lip for the accurail floor.
Brian Carlson

Sent from my iPhone

Thanks, Brian.

I was afraid of that but could see no other way of doing it. The Accurail underframe is a tad too long and a tad too narrow. I have a set of Charlie Boas resin side sills on the way and they'll close the gap a bit. I'll have to see.

Thanks again for the info, Brian.

George Corral
La Grange, KY
The Train Runs Through It.


Re: Wright TRAK Models

Gary Roe
 

Thanks Norm!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

 



________________________________
From: Norm Buckhart <norm@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, April 25, 2013 1:30:28 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wright TRAK Models

Gary Wright's cell is 706-499-4546

Norm Buckhart

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

Brian Carlson
 

George:
I did the same kitbash as mont. I used a dremel (on low you want to cut not melt)to remove the entire floor and then cleaned up the sides with a file then use styrene to create a lip for the accurail floor.
Brian Carlson
On Apr 25, 2013, at 1:23 PM, "George Corral" <g.corral@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:


You also need to understand why Mort went with the Branchline body.
The KCS rebuilds had early improved Dreadnaught ends with the "rolling
pin taper", which are included in Branchline undecorated kits. The
Accurail model features the later "banana taper" ends, which is not
accurate for the KCS rebuilds; however, because the Accurail model has a separate floor instead of the integral floor of the Branchline
model, it makes the kitbash easier if you use the Accurail USRA DS
underframe.


Ben Hom
I read both articles and I also have the correct roofs, doors, and ends to do the build. I also have the fishbelly underframe from Accurail. I want to use the Branchline body and I realize that the underframe is an integral part of the body. Mort doesn't say anything about what he did to the body to fit the Accurail underframe. He has photos but I'm having trouble interpreting his method.

It might be as simple as removing all the portruding details on the existing underframe and glueing the fishbelly underframe to the existing frame. On the other hand, did he completely remove the underframe from the body?

I tried sending an email to his address at this site but no joy.

George Corral


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wright TRAK Models

Norm Buckhart
 

Gary Wright's cell is 706-499-4546

Norm Buckhart

On Apr 25, 2013, at 11:08 AM, gary roe wrote:

Does anyone have a phone number I can call to reach Wright TRAK
Models? I need
to check on a web site purchase I made over a month ago; but have
yet to
receive. They are unresponsive to my e-mail, and that is the only
contact
method they have on their web site.

TIA

gary roe
quincy, illinois

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Wright TRAK Models

Gary Roe
 

Does anyone have a phone number I can call to reach Wright TRAK Models?  I need
to check on a web site purchase I made over a month ago; but have yet to
receive.  They are unresponsive to my e-mail, and that is the only contact
method they have on their web site.
 
TIA
 
gary roe
quincy, illinois


KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

George Corral <g.corral@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:


You also need to understand why Mort went with the Branchline body.
The KCS rebuilds had early improved Dreadnaught ends with the "rolling
pin taper", which are included in Branchline undecorated kits. The
Accurail model features the later "banana taper" ends, which is not
accurate for the KCS rebuilds; however, because the Accurail model has a separate floor instead of the integral floor of the Branchline
model, it makes the kitbash easier if you use the Accurail USRA DS
underframe.


Ben Hom
I read both articles and I also have the correct roofs, doors, and ends to do the build. I also have the fishbelly underframe from Accurail. I want to use the Branchline body and I realize that the underframe is an integral part of the body. Mort doesn't say anything about what he did to the body to fit the Accurail underframe. He has photos but I'm having trouble interpreting his method.

It might be as simple as removing all the portruding details on the existing underframe and glueing the fishbelly underframe to the existing frame. On the other hand, did he completely remove the underframe from the body?

I tried sending an email to his address at this site but no joy.

George Corral


Re: FGEX leased car

Ray Thibaut
 

Just a reminder Central Ohio Prototype Modelers starts tonight at 5:00 in Marion Ohio. Meet us for dinner at the Shovel Lounge @ 5:00 pm EST
Ray Thibaut
567-674-9477
@teabow1958
https://www.facebook.com/groups/438383252883060/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/190663280944583/


Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

brianleppert@att.net
 

Those trucks are American Steel Foundries' Basic Truck. Introduced 1940. The first trucks to have a flanged spring seat.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:


Note the trucks are spring-plankless. As Tim says, odd combination with the K brakes. Maybe the car was REBUILT in 1943.