Date   

Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

The data definitely says "BLT ??-43"

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, April 25, 2013 10:11 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1943 ACF US Army flat






Tim O'Connor wrote:
Did these flat cars ever get into interchange service? Am I reading the the
built date correctly -- 1943? if so it seems very retro for that date, including
KC brakes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121061736503
Note the trucks are spring-plankless. As Tim says, odd combination with the
K brakes. Maybe the car was REBUILT in 1943.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


KCS USRA Rebuild Kitbash Question (was Re: Modeling Question)

Benjamin Hom
 

George Corral asked:
"At the 2006 Shake-n-Take, Greg Martin presented a project for a KCS
boxcar rebuild of the late 40s. His article appeared in RMC later in
2009. A follow-up article by Mort Switzer appeared the following month
only with a twist on Greg's project. Mort used a Branchline boxcar
body instead of Greg's Accurail boxcar body for added detail.

So my task is to mate the Accurail fishbelly underframe to a Branchline
body. Unfortunately, the Branchline body has lots of details cast into
the floor of the body that are in the way. Before I go tearing into
plastic, does anyone know if I need to remove all of the details cast
into the Branchline underframe floor much like Greg mentions to do on
the Accurail floor or do I have to remove the entire floor from the
body?"

I'm at work so I don't have Mort's article in front of me - was there
something wrong with his solution?

You also need to understand why Mort went with the Branchline body.
The KCS rebuilds had early improved Dreadnaught ends with the "rolling
pin taper", which are included in Branchline undecorated kits. The
Accurail model features the later "banana taper" ends, which is not
accurate for the KCS rebuilds; however, because the Accurail model has
a separate floor instead of the integral floor of the Branchline
model, it makes the kitbash easier if you use the Accurail USRA DS
underframe.


Ben Hom


Re: 1943 ACF US Army flat

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Did these flat cars ever get into interchange service? Am I reading the the built date correctly -- 1943? if so it seems very retro for that date, including KC brakes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121061736503
Note the trucks are spring-plankless. As Tim says, odd combination with the K brakes. Maybe the car was REBUILT in 1943.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Modeling Question

George Corral <g.corral@...>
 

Group:

As Jennifer Tilly's ditzy character says in the movie Let it Ride,
"Nothing ventured, nothing ventured." So bear with me since I'm new to this.

At the 2006 Shake-n-Take, Greg Martin presented a project for a KCS boxcar rebuild of the late 40s. His article appeared in RMC later in 2009. A follow-up article by Mort Switzer appeared the following month only with a twist on Greg's project. Mort used a Brancline boxcar body instead of Greg's Accurail boxcar body for added detail.

So my task is to mate the Accurail fishbelly underframe to a Branchline body. Unfortunately, the Branchline body has lots of details cast into the floor of the body that are in the way. Before I go tearing into plastic, does anyone know if I need to remove all of the details cast into the Branchline underframe floor much like Greg mentions to do on the Accurail floor or do I have to remove the entire floor from the body?

Thanks a whole bunch up front, gentlemen.

George Corral
La Grange, KY


1943 ACF US Army flat

Tim O'Connor
 

Did these flat cars ever get into interchange service?
Am I reading the the built date correctly -- 1943? if so
it seems very retro for that date, including KC brakes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121061736503

Check the seller's other completed listings -- some nice
stuff in there.

Tim O'Connor


Re: FGEX leased car

rwitt_2000
 

The one you reference is a re-listing.

I have been watching these and over 20 have been listed during the past
few weeks. I found it interesting that many of the ones for breweries
sold for well over the starting bid of $49.99. For freight car
historians, the seller provided a closeup photo of the drawing
information block and for many one can determine the old and new numbers
car by car.

Bob Witt

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" wrote:

A lettering blueprint I noticed on eBay.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
ADME:B:SS:US:1123> &item=130894122723&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


Dave Nelson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ORER's from the ICC library

Thomas Baker
 

During the first third of the previous century, many of the railroads published their own magazines. The journals featured articles about passenger and freight operations. I have heard that the ICC also catalogued said publications. If these publications also went to the Denver Public Library Western History Collection, they might be a treasure trove of how business was conducted on the railroads from about 1900 through 1932 or so. Has anyone ever heard whether such journals went to the DPLWHC?

Tom Baker

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of proto48er
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 3:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORER's from the ICC library

Guys -

The library of the Interstate Commerce Commission had a collection of ORER's for each and every month or quarter from 1889 to the 1980's. Only a couple of months were missing in the 1898-1895 time frame. I understand they were given to the Denver Public Library Western Collection and are in a container, along with the rest of the ICC library, somewhere in the Denver area awaiting cataloging by archivists. The ICC also had a nice collection of passenger equipment registers, but a number of them were missing. I used them a couple of times back in the 1980's. Wish we could access them!

A.T. Kott





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


FW: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

David Sieber
 

Group, sorry - last msg was meant to go direct to Frank. Dave SieberFrom: ealabhan0@...
To: stmfc@...
Subject: RE: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 11:16:16 -0700




Frank, thanks for the info! Transco did some interesting rebuilds, like the WP stretch attached. Dave
To: STMFC@...
From: frgreene290@...
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:30:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

























Central of Georgia 2441-2499 stretched by Transco 1965-'66. Reference:
MSB Southern Railway color guide.

On 4/23/2013 6:45 PM, ealabhan0 wrote:

2. In addition to B&O M-72's and some P&LE stretched boxcars, were there other notable stretched 40-footers that used three diagonal panels inserted into the middle of the original rectangular roof? As above, number series, photo references, etc., would be appreciated -- although if all those boxcar stretching programs took place after the era of STMFC, I'll gladly take this question to the MFCL and/or BBFCL instead, rather than Mike Brock having to dig out his jail keys ...
Many thanks in advance for any info, Dave Sieber, Reno NV
--


Frank Greene

Memphis, TN


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

David Sieber
 

Frank, thanks for the info! Transco did some interesting rebuilds, like the WP stretch attached. Dave To: STMFC@...
From: frgreene290@...
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:30:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

























Central of Georgia 2441-2499 stretched by Transco 1965-'66. Reference:
MSB Southern Railway color guide.

On 4/23/2013 6:45 PM, ealabhan0 wrote:

2. In addition to B&O M-72's and some P&LE stretched boxcars, were there other notable stretched 40-footers that used three diagonal panels inserted into the middle of the original rectangular roof? As above, number series, photo references, etc., would be appreciated -- although if all those boxcar stretching programs took place after the era of STMFC, I'll gladly take this question to the MFCL and/or BBFCL instead, rather than Mike Brock having to dig out his jail keys ...
Many thanks in advance for any info, Dave Sieber, Reno NV
--


Frank Greene

Memphis, TN


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Frank Greene
 

Central of Georgia 2441-2499 stretched by Transco 1965-'66. Reference: MSB Southern Railway color guide.

On 4/23/2013 6:45 PM, ealabhan0 wrote:
2. In addition to B&O M-72's and some P&LE stretched boxcars, were there other notable stretched 40-footers that used three diagonal panels inserted into the middle of the original rectangular roof? As above, number series, photo references, etc., would be appreciated -- although if all those boxcar stretching programs took place after the era of STMFC, I'll gladly take this question to the MFCL and/or BBFCL instead, rather than Mike Brock having to dig out his jail keys ...

Many thanks in advance for any info, Dave Sieber, Reno NV
--

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: ORER's at the C&O HS in Clifton Forge, VA

water.kresse@...
 

Hi,



From the work session I see before Bill's list --



Jan 1909

Dec 1910

July 1911

Nov 1913



The content of shelves is constantly growing and I don't believe anyone has logging in what we have for a few years now . . . and that was a pencil list on yellow paper.  We are dependent on volunteers to protect and organized these.  There a few incomplete sets of photo-copied C&O, HV and PM  page sets floating around.  I don't know of any plans to scan them.  They are working on scanning  ($7K HP scanner) the 30 June 1916 Val Maps plus remaining updated Val Maps for inclusion onto DVDs to sell right now.  As I said we are volunteer driven . . . so what gets scanned is based on their interest and commmercial purchasers paying for specific materials like drawings and maps.



Al

----- Original Message -----


From: "Bill Welch" <fgexbill@...>
To: "Steam Era Freight cars" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 10:17:48 AM
Subject: [STMFC] ORER's at the C&O HS in Clifton Forge, VA

Before I moved from Virginia I was able to visit the C&O Historical  
Society's Archives in Clifton Forge and scan the FGE/WFE/BRE/NX  
entries in their ORER collection. It occured to me some of you would  
appreciate knowing they have a large collection of ORER's and might  
have exactly the year and month you are looking for. I do not know  
how much copying they are able to do, if any, but they will be able  
to tell you. I can say this is a first class organization with an  
enthusiastic group of supporters that are very proud of what they  
have been able to preserve and make it available and accessible.  
Below is a list of the ORER issues I know they have. Because I would  
not have scanned the FGE/WFE/BRE/NX entries I already had, this may  
not be an exhaustive list.

1913--December;
1914--November;
1920--May; August;
1921--March
1922--June; November;
1923--May; July; August; December;
1924--April; June; August;
1925--January; June; July; September;
1926--January; July;
1927--May; July; September; October;
1928--February; July;
1929--February; June; July; October; November; December;
1930--August; October; December;
1932--April; June; July;
1935--July;
1937--July;
1938--April;
1939--January; July;
1940--October;
1943--July;
1944--January; April;
1945--January;
1949--July;
1954--April;
1956--July;
1957--October;
1959--July;

The only amenity I did not find in the area was a "meat and three."

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
fgexbill@...







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

David Sieber
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor wrote: Ed has reposted information regarding these special auto car roofs, but you might find out more searching the archives for "mixed panel roofs" or "combination roofs" ... I know we talked about this back in 2000, man that seems like a long time ago.

Many thanks to Ed and the others who've responded just within the last few hours -- and now to Tim, who has reminded me that with Yahoo Group searches, it's often useful to retry any search several hours or a day later, using every possible variant of search key, in quotes and/or without. My earlier search on "mixed panel roofs" gave me only 8 results on STMFC (though I did find the B&O M-72 on another Group), but just now I got 74 results(!), including a 2002 discussion on NKP autocars and using the Rydarowicz roof to model them. Adding to those results using search key "combination roofs" (which I hadn't thought of calling them), I've got a great start toward researching my question on the autoloader mixed roof, and I'll try again with searches on BBFCL and MFCL for the stretched roof of later rebuilds. Really appreciate the help! Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Tim O'Connor
 

Dave

Ed has reposted information regarding these special auto car roofs,
but you might find out more searching the archives for "mixed panel roofs"
or "combination roofs" ... I know we talked about this back in 2000, man
that seems like a long time ago.

Tim O'Connor

At Naperville several years ago, I was buying conversion kits and resin freight car parts from Stan Rydarowicz when I spotted a box of "50ft mixed panel roofs." Stan explained that they were mixed diagonal and rectangular panel roofs as used on a small number of 50ft autocars. Thinking that I knew what he meant, I bought one, intending to do a 50ft rebuild stretched from a 40ft boxcar like:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo474020ajs.jpg

However, when I got it home and looked at it, it was very much NOT the mixed roof used on stretched 40-footers with three diagonal panels inserted in the middle of the original 12-panel rectangular roof, as I'd expected. Instead, it was basically a diagonal panel roof, but with the third and fourth panels from each end being rectangular panels. With no idea where or why that roof would have been used, I put it aside to figure out later.

Later became now when I found a Bob Dengler photo of SP 210365, an A-50-18 with exactly that odd mixed roof, at: http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/sp/sp210365.jpg

Per Tony Thompson's definitive reference, "Southern Pacific Freight Cars, Vol. 3: Automobile Cars and Flat Cars," those cars in classes A-50-17 and A-50-18 that were equipped with Evans F auto loaders were built with this distinctive roof with rectangular raised panels third and fourth from each end to accommodate the auto loader attachments. That explains the reason for this uncommon mixed roof, plus gives me a perfect prototype to model using that resin roof from Stan.
That's great, but gives rise to a couple more questions about prototype boxcars with these two very different mixed panel roofs:

1. Did any other railroads buy or build postwar 50ft autocars using a mixed roof with rectangular panels in the third and fourth positions from each end to accommodate Evans F auto loaders? If so, what car number series, so I can look up the details and/or photos? Photo URL or book references would be appreciated, if readily available.

2. In addition to B&O M-72's and some P&LE stretched boxcars, were there other notable stretched 40-footers that used three diagonal panels inserted into the middle of the original rectangular roof? As above, number series, photo references, etc., would be appreciated -- although if all those boxcar stretching programs took place after the era of STMFC, I'll gladly take this question to the MFCL and/or BBFCL instead, rather than Mike Brock having to dig out his jail keys ...

Many thanks in advance for any info, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Scott Pitzer
 

I first noticed this pattern on two retired SP cars in use as storage sheds at a lumber yard near the Davis, CA Amtrak station.
Slightly later (around 1993, and before I learned the WHY) I saw the same pattern on a car in Santa Fe work service (in silver paint.)
I couldn't get close to that car, but I did have a good angle for seeing the roof profile...
Scott Pitzer


On Apr 23, 2013, at 6:45 PM, ealabhan0 wrote:

<SNIP>
That's great, but gives rise to a couple more questions about
prototype boxcars with these two very different mixed panel roofs:

1. Did any other railroads buy or build postwar 50ft autocars using a
mixed roof with rectangular panels in the third and fourth

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Ed Hawkins
 

On Apr 23, 2013, at 6:45 PM, ealabhan0 wrote:

<SNIP>
That's great, but gives rise to a couple more questions about
prototype boxcars with these two very different mixed panel roofs:

1. Did any other railroads buy or build postwar 50ft autocars using a
mixed roof with rectangular panels in the third and fourth positions
from each end to accommodate Evans F auto loaders? If so, what car
number series, so I can look up the details and/or photos? Photo URL
or book references would be appreciated, if readily available.
Dave,
I have confirmed the following cars having the combination diagonal
panel/Murphy panel roofs. There were probably more. All were auto cars
with 15' wide door openings built new with these roofs. You have
already referenced Tony's book and some specific SP cars.

D&TS 5000-5099, 2-55, Greenville
MP 88900-88999, 6-57, MP
NJI&I 3300-3399, 1-51, ACF
NKP 86100-86249, 12-49, ACF
NKP 86200-86349, 1-55, Greenville
Numerous SP cars, 1950-1956, all built by SP
WAB 19800-19999, 5-53, ACF
WAB 20000-20199, 10-53, ACF

Hope this helps.
Regards, Ed Hawkins


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ealabhan0" <ealabhan0@...> wrote:

1. Did any other railroads buy or build postwar 50ft autocars using a mixed roof with rectangular panels in the third and fourth positions from each end to accommodate Evans F auto loaders? If so, what car number series, so I can look up the details and/or photos? Photo URL or book references would be appreciated, if readily available.

I seem to recall NKP had several series like this, but numbrs series will have to wait until I'm at work tommorrow, unless someone else has them at their finger tips.

Dennis


Re: 50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

Clark Propst
 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo474020ajs.jpg

The best part of that Jim Sands photo taken in Marshalltown Ia with Cooper Mfg in the background is the CGW articulated flat in the foreground.
Clark Propst


50ft Box and Auto Cars with Mixed Panel Roofs

David Sieber
 

Group,

At Naperville several years ago, I was buying conversion kits and resin freight car parts from Stan Rydarowicz when I spotted a box of "50ft mixed panel roofs." Stan explained that they were mixed diagonal and rectangular panel roofs as used on a small number of 50ft autocars. Thinking that I knew what he meant, I bought one, intending to do a 50ft rebuild stretched from a 40ft boxcar like:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo474020ajs.jpg

However, when I got it home and looked at it, it was very much NOT the mixed roof used on stretched 40-footers with three diagonal panels inserted in the middle of the original 12-panel rectangular roof, as I'd expected. Instead, it was basically a diagonal panel roof, but with the third and fourth panels from each end being rectangular panels. With no idea where or why that roof would have been used, I put it aside to figure out later.

Later became now when I found a Bob Dengler photo of SP 210365, an A-50-18 with exactly that odd mixed roof, at:
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/sp/sp210365.jpg
Per Tony Thompson's definitive reference, "Southern Pacific Freight Cars, Vol. 3: Automobile Cars and Flat Cars," those cars in classes A-50-17 and A-50-18 that were equipped with Evans F auto loaders were built with this distinctive roof with rectangular raised panels third and fourth from each end to accommodate the auto loader attachments. That explains the reason for this uncommon mixed roof, plus gives me a perfect prototype to model using that resin roof from Stan.
That's great, but gives rise to a couple more questions about prototype boxcars with these two very different mixed panel roofs:

1. Did any other railroads buy or build postwar 50ft autocars using a mixed roof with rectangular panels in the third and fourth positions from each end to accommodate Evans F auto loaders? If so, what car number series, so I can look up the details and/or photos? Photo URL or book references would be appreciated, if readily available.

2. In addition to B&O M-72's and some P&LE stretched boxcars, were there other notable stretched 40-footers that used three diagonal panels inserted into the middle of the original rectangular roof? As above, number series, photo references, etc., would be appreciated -- although if all those boxcar stretching programs took place after the era of STMFC, I'll gladly take this question to the MFCL and/or BBFCL instead, rather than Mike Brock having to dig out his jail keys ...

Many thanks in advance for any info, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: ORER's at the C&O HS in Clifton Forge, VA

 

I believe the 42nd Street NYC library has all the copies. Until I sold the business I belonged to the Union List, a group of Pennsy modelers who shared their ORERs. Between us we had virtually every issue. That’s why I could offer the PRR CDs – each owner would copy the PRR pages and send them to other members. These and my 80 or so issues went to Andrew Dahm. - Al Westerfield

From: Anthony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 1:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORER's at the C&O HS in Clifton Forge, VA


Dave Nelson wrote:
Stanford University seems to have a complete set from Vol 1 #1 thru end of year 1916 or 17 (I don't recall which). Then there is a large gap and the collection resumes again in (IIRC) April of 1950.
They no longer allow Xeroxing and I don't know whether they have "copiable" issues available, as CSRM does.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Kendall Oil / Koch Tank Car Line questions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Mischke wrote:
I intend to model traffic to and from the Kendall Oil refinery at Bradford, Pa. The ORER's show about 34-36 Kendall tank cars during the 1950's, although I suspect many of these were very old and used in-plant.
Any cars not in interchange service did not need to be listed in the ORER, though of course in later years they may have retained an old listing without removing the in-plant cars.

Kendall's original reporting mark was KRTX. Their president, O. F. Koch was allowed to purchase them all and formed the incestuous Koch Tank Car Line, reporting marks OFKX. All such tank cars were evidently so listed by the 1950's.
Incestuous"? You might say "eponymous" but I don't see using your own name as incestuous.

2. If Kendall used leased tank cars, who did they arrange leases with?? GATX?
Unless a photo at the plant surfaces, this might be pretty hard to find out, because most leased cars, from GATX or anyone, were black and just had the lessor's marks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history