Date   

Re: SAL Class B-3/B-4/B-5 SS XM (was Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar)

Monk Alan
 

Hi guys,

I've been working on a similar conversion, but using F&C's BAR 1927 ARA SS (Pratt truss) boxcar with flat steel and Youngstown doors (http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6553.html) instead, as the diagonal strapping on the side's end panels is a closer match to what I've observed in pics of SAL B4s and B5s (ie a single strap running diagonally top to bottom, slanted inwards to the top). The sides and ends are basically good, replace side ladders with wire grabs and add shallow fish-belly centre beams to the underframe.

Must admit I hadn't considered the roof, but as the model is only part-started, it's not too late to rummage through my spares box and see what I have. Decals were going to come from a hodge-podge of SAL decals in my decal box, though IIRC there's suitable ones on the Speedwitch SAL boxcars sheet??

Regards,
Alan Monk,
London, UK



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SAL Class B-3/B-4/B-5 SS XM (was Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar)

Benjamin Scanlon
 

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Clark Propst wrote:
"Off the top of my head a 'look alike' might be possible using a F&C
B&M kit? Maybe adding a X29 roof? Micro Scale makes/made SAL decals."

Funaro does a version with the "X29 roof":
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6000.html

I'd still do a side-by-side of the Funaro kit with the SAL cars to
verify the changes that need to be made, but this opens up another
option to model these cars in HO.


Ben Hom
hello all

can i ask how late these cars ran on SAL in the form depicted in sunshine's kit? i may be wrong but i seem to recall information that they were rebuilt at some point, with steel sides?

i am not sure if they retained the trusses in the rebuild or whether they ended up looking like a lower height B-5.

regards,

benjamin


Re: How to get that greasy look

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

For "fresh oily spills" I prefer enamels. To get that "oil that
has collected some dust/grime from the air I 'drizzle on' some
loose (ground/shaved/scraped off with a flat blade screwdriver)
artists chalks.
Lard/tallow isn't true black - it's a dark brown/warm black. And
it "browns" more as it 'dries' (and collects dirt from the air?). I'd
start with about 10 drops of black and then start slowly adding
a dark brown until I had the color I want.

I often start with an undercoat of black acrylic (such as the Delta
Ceramcoat craft paints) - then - after it is totally dry - add an over
coat of enamel. Totally dry means just that - at least 24 hours or
more in my book. Hey, if you are going to wait 4 hours you might
as well wait 24! *G* Acrylics are "dry to the touch" very fast.
And you can add more acrylics and it is no problem. But if you
are going to change paint brands (another acrylic) or types
(lacquer or enamel) ... they need to be "fully cured". Acrylics
actually change chemical composition in the drying process!

I have used enamels for tank dome spills - and for journal box
oozes. Works great! For the dull grime around a stack I'll
use acrylic washes and "work it".

I've found a method of using my finger to 'streak' an acrylic
wash that does a great job of simulating the streaks of color
on a cab roof or down the side of a diesel. Just run your thumb
or finger - in a straight line - and it spreads and makes fine lines
that have more 'direction' than streaking.

Someone mentioned using oil paints - hadn't thought of that.
Haven't had any oils in the house for a couple of decades. My
wife, who paints, uses either acrylics or water colors.

I still use lacquers. They are fine ... but they don't look "oily"!
So I use enamels for that. A little bit is all you need to provide
that "shiny highlight" you are looking for.
- Jim


Re: Decaling our Steam Era Freight Cars

Greg Martin
 

John,

This was Model Die Casting/ Roundhouse. Athearn was and is still based in
Southern California. Used to be in Compton and now in Long Beach if my
memory serves me.

Remember to sign your first and last name or you'll end up in Mike Brocks
jail.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

In a message dated 4/18/2013 4:03:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
John.Sykes@... writes:

Actually, I thought that Athearn moved their production or part of it to
Nevada in the mid-1990's because they could not meet California's emissions
standard for paint solvents. I think it was when Irv was still alive.

-- John


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Jack Mullen
 

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:



Dennis Storzek wrote:
"I think everyone is just assuming that since the sides look like the
hat-section Pratt truss framing of the 1923 ARA car, that that's what
was copied. But with Weaver these days, who knows... the sides may have
been stretched to fit existing ends."

I'll buy reusing existing ends from another model:
http://www.weavermodels.com/page38.html

However, this car still has the proportions of a lower IH boxcar (8 ft
7 in), and does not have the proportions of one of the taller "Pratt
Truss" prototypes (ex: SP Class B-50-15/16).
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/sp37582main.html

I'm still standing by my assetion that this model has no prototype.


Ben Hom
I think this single-sheathed car, the steel-sided car Ben mentioned, and a wood-sided reefer http://www.weavermodels.com/page36.html
all originated with Crown Metal Products a few decades ago (maybe the '80s?), and came to Weaver later. They seem to share the same dimensions and ends, with different roofs and sides. I think looking for the prototype is a wild goose chase.

IIRC,the reefer resembles the MDT composite reefers built c'40. The steel box is sorta like a 1932 AAR, but shorter, I think. I've thought of these cars as being around 9' IH, but I sure could be wrong about a few inches. I don't recall whether I ever measured one.
To me, the sides of the single-sheathed car would have been worthy of a kitbash if it weren't for the overly prominent joints between boards. Another missed opportunity for the scale community. (descends from soapbox)


Jack Mullen



Re: How to get that greasy look

william darnaby
 

You can't beat oil to simulate oil. In other words, use oil paints thinned
with turpentine. It will dry with an old oily appearance.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@...
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:22 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] How to get that greasy look

A couple of people have suggested gloss paint, and I think that works well
for a fresh spill. The look I am after is a dirty, greasy, aged spill look,
where the spilled gunk has captured dust and soot. Sort of like what builds
up on an old car's engine that has been leaking water and oil at various
times over the years. It's not glossy, but not dead flat, either.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Decaling our Steam Era Freight Cars

John
 

Actually, I thought that Athearn moved their production or part of it to Nevada in the mid-1990's because they could not meet California's emissions standard for paint solvents. I think it was when Irv was still alive.

-- John

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Perhaps John is thinking of Horizon Hobby, the distribution company who
bought Athearn and Model Die Casting. Horizon is based in Champaign,
Illinois.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org







Re: How to get that greasy look

CJ Riley
 

You can start with glossy black and work some powdered colors into it to simulate the accumulated dirt.

CJ Riley

Bainbridge Island WA

--- On Thu, 4/18/13, richtownsend@... <richtownsend@...> wrote:

From: richtownsend@... <richtownsend@...>
Subject: [STMFC] How to get that greasy look
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, April 18, 2013, 11:43 AM








 









I've been trying to come up with ideas for painting parts of some tank cars to get that greasy look some of them had, such as some that served packing plants. Any suggestions?



Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, Oregon



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: How to get that greasy look

Richard Townsend
 

A couple of people have suggested gloss paint, and I think that works well for a fresh spill. The look I am after is a dirty, greasy, aged spill look, where the spilled gunk has captured dust and soot. Sort of like what builds up on an old car's engine that has been leaking water and oil at various times over the years. It's not glossy, but not dead flat, either.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: How to get that greasy look

Tim O'Connor
 

Any clear gloss will do it. Or you can use gloss paint.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Williams" <wwww5960@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:02:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] How to get that greasy look

Hi....I just use a gloss black paint.......I created an folder in photos with 4 pics that are waiting approval...Best Jim Williams


Re: How to get that greasy look

Clark Propst
 

I use Polly S oily black and white mixed on the car to simulate lard or tallow.
Clark Propst



 
I've been trying to come up with ideas for painting parts of some tank cars to get that greasy look some of them had, such as some that served packing plants. Any suggestions?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: How to get that greasy look

Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

Hi....I just use a gloss black paint.......I created an folder in photos with 4 pics that are waiting approval...Best Jim Williams


________________________________
From: "richtownsend@..." <richtownsend@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:43 AM
Subject: [STMFC] How to get that greasy look



 
I've been trying to come up with ideas for painting parts of some tank cars to get that greasy look some of them had, such as some that served packing plants. Any suggestions?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Could the 'prototype' have been another model? Perhaps one of the Train
Miniatures? :-)
It wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer copied someone else's model. "

That was my first thought this morning, but the Walthers/T-M model had Z-section
"Howe truss" sides and different ends (DS, SS, or 3/3/3 Dreadnaught ends).  Not
a copy of either version of the MDC SS boxcar either.


Ben Hom


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Benjamin Hom
 

I wrote:
However, this car still has the proportions of a lower IH boxcar (8 ft 7 in),
nd does not have the proportions of one of the taller "Pratt Truss" prototypes
(ex: SP Class B-50-15/16).
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/sp37582main.html

Tony Thompson added:
"Remember that the SP cars like this are NOT the ARA standard, but were 6 inches

taller inside."

My point exactly!


Ben Hom


How to get that greasy look

Richard Townsend
 

I've been trying to come up with ideas for painting parts of some tank cars to get that greasy look some of them had, such as some that served packing plants. Any suggestions?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Tim O'Connor
 

Could the 'prototype' have been another model? Perhaps one of the Train Miniatures? :-)
It wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer copied someone else's model.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>

I'm still standing by my assetion that this model has no prototype.

Ben Hom


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
However, this car still has the proportions of a lower IH boxcar (8 ft 7 in), and does not have the proportions of one of the taller "Pratt Truss" prototypes (ex: SP Class B-50-15/16).
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/sp37582main.html
Remember that the SP cars like this are NOT the ARA standard, but were 6 inches taller inside.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Benjamin Hom
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
"I think everyone is just assuming that since the sides look like the
hat-section Pratt truss framing of the 1923 ARA car, that that's what
was copied. But with Weaver these days, who knows... the sides may have
been stretched to fit existing ends."

I'll buy reusing existing ends from another model:
http://www.weavermodels.com/page38.html

However, this car still has the proportions of a lower IH boxcar (8 ft
7 in), and does not have the proportions of one of the taller "Pratt
Truss" prototypes (ex: SP Class B-50-15/16).
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/sp37582main.html

I'm still standing by my assetion that this model has no prototype.


Ben Hom


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Benjamin Hom
 

Mark Mathu asked:
"To the untrained eye (such as mine), how can a person identify the
Weaver Models boxcar as 8'-7" IH?"

Easy way? Take the applicable hi-rail or scale Atlas/Middle Division
PRR Class X29 boxcar and couple it to the Weaver model.

How to train your eye? Keep in mind the height of a house car
affects its proportions. A 40 ft car with an 8 ft 7 IH is
less "chunky" than a 40 ft car with a 10 ft IH:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prrx29main.html
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/hptd424main.html

Even though these cars appear to be identical at first glance, the
proportions are different. Don't sell short your ability to perceive
this difference - even though it's only 1 ft 5 in (4.95 mm in HO),
your brain can sense the different proportions of both cars, even if
they aren't side-by-side.


Ben Hom


Re: Weaver Models 40' SS boxcar - prototype match

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "mark_mathu" <mark@...> wrote:



Ben Hom wrote:
http://www.weavermodels.com/page37.html
Unfortunately, there aren't that many "Pratt truss"
8 ft 7 in IH prototypes (B&M/MTC, L&N, SAL), and none
with Dreadnaught ends or 13-carline roofs. You can use
this model as a stand-in for the B&M/MTC, L&N and SAL
cars, but be advised that roof and ends do not match
these prototypes.
To the untrained eye (such as mine), how can a person identify the Weaver Models boxcar as 8'-7" IH?
____
Mark Mathu
I think everyone is just assuming that since the sides look like the hat-section Pratt truss framing of the 1923 ARA car, that that's what was copied. But with Weaver these days, who knows... the sides may have been stretched to fit existing ends.

Dennis