Date   

Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Aley, Jeff A
 

Well, it all depends on what you mean by “random”.  If you’re modeling a bridge route, you may see regular covered hopper traffic between offline shipper / consignee pairs.  For example, the UP carried covered hoppers of soda ash from Wyoming to Kansas (among other places).

 

Cement traffic appears to be much more localized (in Kansas, at least).  Alfalfa pellets (for animal feed) were also handled in covered hoppers in KS, and shipped to stockyards as far away as Omaha, and perhaps farther.

 

My point is that if you’re modeling a line that is between a producer and a consumer, you’ll need some.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 9:08 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 

 

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo


Re: Masking material for painting

Ted Culotta
 

I found that Frog Tape (frogtape.com) is the same stuff as Tamiya sells, but at a fraction of the cost per unit of measure. I bought it at Sherwin-Williams a couple years back, but it seems to be available everywhere now.

Cheers
Ted Culotta


Re: Wabash Box Car Question

Tim O'Connor
 

A 1960 photo of Wabash 20779 appears to show a galvanized roof, but
with body color painted seam caps. The roof shows no traces of ever
being painted black, and that would be highly unusual for any Wabash
box car. The cars were built in 1957 by General American.

Tim O'Connor

Based upon what I can see in the Wabash Color Guide from Morning Sun, go ahead and paint the roof and the running board the same as the car body.
Pierre Oliver


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have
worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for
what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The
model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the
usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am
replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however,
black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the
sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?

A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Phil

--
Phillip Blancher
http://about.me/phillipblancher



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: PFE Steel reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Dick, bring the solution to Cocoa Beach, and I can find out there! :-)

At 9/11/2013 07:01 PM Wednesday, you wrote:


Tim O'Connor asks:

Dick, what's the issue with the hatches? I'm just curious
-- is it easily fixed? Can the roof be replaced with an
Intermountain roof? Would that fix it?

I don't know yet.

Come to Naperville and find out.


Cheers,

Dick Harley

Laguna Beach, CA


Re: Masking material for painting

Tim O'Connor
 

The usual masking technique is to overspray the edge of the tape
with the same color that is under the tape -- and then apply the
new color over top of that. When the tape is removed, the color line
separation will be as sharp as the tape edge. Works great over all
kinds of uneven surfaces. I only use 3M plastic tape because it has
a smooth, sharp edge. Tamiya also sells such tape.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Wabash Box Car Question

Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
 

Thank you Pierre, most helpful.

Phil


On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Pierre <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:
Phil,
Based upon what I can see in the Wabash Color Guide from Morning Sun, go ahead and paint the roof and the running board the same as the car body.
Pierre Oliver


--- In STMFC@..., Phillip Blancher >
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have
> worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for
> what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The
> model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the
> usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am
> replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however,
> black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the
> sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?
>
> A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.
>
> Anyone know the answer to this?
>
> Phil
>
> --
> Phillip Blancher
> http://about.me/phillipblancher
>




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Re: Wabash Box Car Question

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Phil,
Based upon what I can see in the Wabash Color Guide from Morning Sun, go ahead and paint the roof and the running board the same as the car body.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have
worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for
what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The
model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the
usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am
replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however,
black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the
sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?

A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Phil

--
Phillip Blancher
http://about.me/phillipblancher


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Dennis Storzek
 

 


      I don't think the private ownership statement is correct. Numerous private owners possessed a handful of cars each in the 1953 ORER, with only two big owners, SHPX having about 900 and GACX having less than 500 more. Meanwhile, ATSF owned 1450 cars; UP, about 1000 cars; and SP + T&NO, about 1350. That's just three railroads.

Tony Thompson

I tend to agree with Tony on this. The early use of covered hoppers seems to be cement service, and almost all were railroad owned. That's not to say they didn't repeatedly hail loads for a small number of customers, after all, they were bought to protect a specific business, but they could be routed wherever those customers shipped.

Early use of bigger covered hoppers as grain cars, while really beyond the cut-off date of this list, seemed to follow the same pattern; railroad owned cars purchased to protect a specific market segment.

Where private ownership was common was with specially equipped cars, such as cars with food grade linings. In the past the railroads had supplied the car, but the customer supplied the food contact lining; cloth bags or paper in the case of flour loading. Note this doesn't apply to grain, because grain doesn't require a special lining until it's milled into flour. I suspect the railroads could just envision the damage claims they'd have every time the shipper made a claim fora contaminated load, and baulked at being responsible for the linings. Thus, the vast majority of privately owned covered hoppers during our time frame were specially lined cars such as Air-slide cars.

Dennis Storzek


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

Don Burn wrote:

 

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. 


      I don't think the private ownership statement is correct. Numerous private owners possessed a handful of cars each in the 1953 ORER, with only two big owners, SHPX having about 900 and GACX having less than 500 more. Meanwhile, ATSF owned 1450 cars; UP, about 1000 cars; and SP + T&NO, about 1350. That's just three railroads.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Armand Premo
 

Ben,I have yet to do a thorough analysis ,but a quick overview shows very few.I have just opened another bundle and it may take a few days to have an answer.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 

Don Burn asked:
"This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?"
 
Don, out of from the records from Armand's collection that I've analyzed, only 27 covered hoppers out of 5,474 total freight cars - 3 B&O, 1 N&W, 16 NYC, and 7 SHPX.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Burn asked:
"This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?"
 
Don, out of from the records from Armand's collection that I've analyzed, only 27 covered hoppers out of 5,474 total freight cars - 3 B&O, 1 N&W, 16 NYC, and 7 SHPX.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Re: outstanding article on freight cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Don;

From the data I have, they shifted covered hoppers around at least sometimes, and provided whatever was on hand. Some of them were dedicated to a given shipper, but others were not. Sand, for foundries and glass-making, went all over the place; however, it is always best to research what industries were located on the "other side" of your layout, to maintain plausibility. Few of them in my era were privately-owned.

In my case, Mississippi Glass Co/Corning initially got sand in box cars, then early covered hoppers like the PRR H30, and then by the mid-fifties, in later covered hoppers like the H33 and H34, and so on. On-line foundries got the same sequence of ever more modern cars in sand service. Ditto for cement service.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 12:08 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars



This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Charles Hostetler
 

I posted some data from a passing report taken at Newberry Junction on the NYC.  It is a bit later than the period that Don was asking about (August 1956).  For this little snapshot, 61 of 1098 identifiable cars (5.6%) were covered hoppers.  None were privately owned.  Most were regional (B&O, CNJ, LNE, NYC, PRR, RDG), one was from Canada (CP), and one was SSW.  The report covered loaded cars and loaded and empty tank cars.  


Those interested can find the data here:


http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2013/09/covered-hoppers-at-newberry-junction.html


Regards,


Charles Hostetler




--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars



Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Don Burn
 

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars



Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

al_brown03
 

I don't suppose they shipped that stuff to Florida?

 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. 


--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.                                                                        You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:58 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 


Guys, thanks for all the kind words on my Barretts cov hop article, it is appreciated.

I am trying to find out more info on the routing of these cars, if anybody has any info.

From interchange reports I know some of them were routed from the D&H to the Rutland RR at Rutland VT, up the Rut, across the OL&C div, on to Chicago. The Bob Collins color photo shows one going south on Richmondville hll, and I have read here that some showed up on the PENN.

I am not even sure if Barretts used all the granulated slate for themselves, or if the sold them to other roofing mfg.

Thanks for any info,
Mike Evans


Wabash Box Car Question

Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
 

Hi everyone,

I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however, black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?

A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Phil



Re: Masking material for painting

Charlie Duckworth
 

I've used Tamiya's masking tape for years to mask and paint models; it is specifically designed for this purpose.  It's very thin making it easy to mask over rivets, it's low tack so it doesn't pull up the previous paint layers.  It comes in various widths.  


HobbyTown USA carries it as well as Squadron Shop on the web, am sure there's many other sources as well.


Charlie Duckworth  



--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Dave Nelson wrote:

 
This reminds me… the other day I was in an Aaron Bros Art Supply store and I noticed a variety of low adhesive tape was available… some from 3M, some Draftsman tapes, and others labeled Artist Tape.  I suspect the later two would world quite well w/ an airbrush.

        I continue to buy and use drafting tape, which I find has plenty of adhesion but doesn't lift previous paint layers. Great stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Andy Carlson

golden1014
 

Hi Guys,
 
Andy Carlson, at your convenience please contact me off-list at Golden1014@....  Thanks!
 
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Armand Premo
 

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.                                                                        You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:58 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 


Guys, thanks for all the kind words on my Barretts cov hop article, it is appreciated.

I am trying to find out more info on the routing of these cars, if anybody has any info.

From interchange reports I know some of them were routed from the D&H to the Rutland RR at Rutland VT, up the Rut, across the OL&C div, on to Chicago. The Bob Collins color photo shows one going south on Richmondville hll, and I have read here that some showed up on the PENN.

I am not even sure if Barretts used all the granulated slate for themselves, or if the sold them to other roofing mfg.

Thanks for any info,
Mike Evans


Re: Masking material for painting

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Nelson wrote:

 
This reminds me… the other day I was in an Aaron Bros Art Supply store and I noticed a variety of low adhesive tape was available… some from 3M, some Draftsman tapes, and others labeled Artist Tape.  I suspect the later two would world quite well w/ an airbrush.

        I continue to buy and use drafting tape, which I find has plenty of adhesion but doesn't lift previous paint layers. Great stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




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