Date   

Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Michael Evans
 

Armand,
This is what Andy pulled from his records, it is from Jan, Feb & Mar 1953. This batch was the only one he has checked so far. They were interchanged between D&H and Rut at Rouses Point.

1/7, BMX843, fr Poultney, VT to Chicago, IL, Slate Granuals
2/5, BMX803, fr Poultney, VT to Chicago, Il, Slate Granuals
2/22, BMX803, fr Blue Island, Il, to Poultney, Vt, mty
3/3, BMX803, fr Poultney, Vt to Chicago, Il, Slale Granuals
3/24, BMX860, fr Blue Island, IL to Poultney Vt, mty
3/31, BMX860, fr Poultney, Vt to Chicago, Il, Slate Granuals

Remember, these cars did not go into service until 1949.
Hope this helps,
Mike Evans

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you. You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Evans
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:58 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars




Guys, thanks for all the kind words on my Barretts cov hop article, it is appreciated.

I am trying to find out more info on the routing of these cars, if anybody has any info.

From interchange reports I know some of them were routed from the D&H to the Rutland RR at Rutland VT, up the Rut, across the OL&C div, on to Chicago. The Bob Collins color photo shows one going south on Richmondville hll, and I have read here that some showed up on the PENN.

I am not even sure if Barretts used all the granulated slate for themselves, or if the sold them to other roofing mfg.

Thanks for any info,
Mike Evans


7'8" IH Mather boxcars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Hullo

I am wondering if someone has a diagram of these cars that they might be able to share. I particularly want something that shows the planking, bolts etc.  I'm thinking of the C&EI 400-499 series but I understand they were typical of the type so it need not be a C&EI diagram.

Regards

Ben


Re: PRR X29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?

Scaler164@...
 

Whereabouts, exactly?  I'll be heading to 'them parts' in a few weeks and would like to photograph it.
 
 
John Degnan
Scaler164@...
Scaler187@...


From: "Todd Horton"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 7:10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: PRR X29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?



For what it's worth one of these (SAL Express) cars still exist in North Ga. Not sure if there's any else around but one for sure survived
 
Todd Horton

From: Benjamin Hom
To: "STMFC@..." Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: PRR X29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?
 
John Degnan asked:
"Wondering about how similar PRR's X-29 [sic] boxes may have been to SAL's Ventilated REA boxes?  In S scale, SSA (S Scale America) offers a model of PRR's X-29 [sic] box that might be a good starting point for modeling the SAL REA Vent's if they are similar enough."
 
Andy Sperandeo replied:
"I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, so I'll point out that the SAL ventilated express boxcars were actually variants of the 1932 ARA boxcar design. They were originally built as members of SAL class B6, and 55 were converted to express service between 1943 and 1954.
 
<
 
The takeaway is that I think the X29-to-B6 express variant conversion in HO resulted in a believable model, and I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done in S scale. I don't think I've ever photographed my car, but it did appear in a Model Railroader video segment I did featuring a variety of mail and express cars."
 
 
First, NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES!
 
I disagree with Andy regarding this conversion, because there are more issues than the different underframes.  The SAL carsides have the single row of rivets of the 1932 ARA design instead of the double row of rivets of the X29/1923 proposed-ARA design, and the X29 carbody is 9 inches shorter than the SAL prototype (8 ft 7 in IH vs 9 ft 4 in IH).  This is a very noticeable difference in HO scale, much less S.
 
That being said, it looks like you're caught between a rock and a hard place in S scale - start with an X29 kit and end up with a "short man in drag" model, or start with the Pacific Rail Shops 1937 AAR boxcar with square corner ends, cut it down in height by 6 inches, and scratchbuild new sides and ends, which will give you a better model but require a lot work than slapping side tabs and ventilators on the X29.
 
Ultimately, it's up to you.  Your mileage may vary.
 
 
Ben Hom



Re: PRR X-29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?

albyrno
 

I've been using plastic from gallon ziplock bags for my brass engines,its fairly thick and details will not poke through it ,mainly because its cheap and convenient,
     Alan


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

al_brown03
 

To speculate about my own question: it occurs to me that my own roof uses this very material. Whether it's shipped here *by Barrett* is another question.

AL B.


Re: Masking material for painting

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

Don,

This is a very late response to your message from last month.

I recently bought some Frog tape. The folks at Home Depot told me that the reason it works well is that when it gets wet, the adhesive expands to fill the gaps under the tape. In my case, I intend to mask a heavily-textured wall where it meets a heavily-textured ceiling - a case where paint usually will bleed under regular masking tape.

Now, how would that affect our models, especially if using a water-thinned paint? I don't know. I also don't know how aggressive the adhesive is on the tape.

Regards,

-Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. Based upon some of the earlier responses I have stuck with the masking tape thaat seems to be in abundance here for the moment but when more time is available I guess it won't hurt to try the Frog tape. Those of us on this list all seem to like different ways of doing things so it may work for me even if no
one else likes it and I won't know until it is at least tried.

Thanks again, Don Valentine


Re: PRR X29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?

Todd Horton
 

For what it's worth one of these (SAL Express) cars still exist in North Ga. Not sure if there's any else around but one for sure survived
 
Todd Horton

From: Benjamin Hom
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: PRR X29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?
 
John Degnan asked:
"Wondering about how similar PRR's X-29 [sic] boxes may have been to SAL's Ventilated REA boxes?  In S scale, SSA (S Scale America) offers a model of PRR's X-29 [sic] box that might be a good starting point for modeling the SAL REA Vent's if they are similar enough."
 
Andy Sperandeo replied:
"I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, so I'll point out that the SAL ventilated express boxcars were actually variants of the 1932 ARA boxcar design. They were originally built as members of SAL class B6, and 55 were converted to express service between 1943 and 1954.
 
<>
 
The takeaway is that I think the X29-to-B6 express variant conversion in HO resulted in a believable model, and I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done in S scale. I don't think I've ever photographed my car, but it did appear in a Model Railroader video segment I did featuring a variety of mail and express cars."
 
 
First, NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES!
 
I disagree with Andy regarding this conversion, because there are more issues than the different underframes.  The SAL carsides have the single row of rivets of the 1932 ARA design instead of the double row of rivets of the X29/1923 proposed-ARA design, and the X29 carbody is 9 inches shorter than the SAL prototype (8 ft 7 in IH vs 9 ft 4 in IH).  This is a very noticeable difference in HO scale, much less S.
 
That being said, it looks like you're caught between a rock and a hard place in S scale - start with an X29 kit and end up with a "short man in drag" model, or start with the Pacific Rail Shops 1937 AAR boxcar with square corner ends, cut it down in height by 6 inches, and scratchbuild new sides and ends, which will give you a better model but require a lot work than slapping side tabs and ventilators on the X29.
 
Ultimately, it's up to you.  Your mileage may vary.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: PRR X29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?

Benjamin Hom
 

John Degnan asked:
"Wondering about how similar PRR's X-29 [sic] boxes may have been to SAL's Ventilated REA boxes?  In S scale, SSA (S Scale America) offers a model of PRR's X-29 [sic] box that might be a good starting point for modeling the SAL REA Vent's if they are similar enough."
 
Andy Sperandeo replied:
"I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, so I'll point out that the SAL ventilated express boxcars were actually variants of the 1932 ARA boxcar design. They were originally built as members of SAL class B6, and 55 were converted to express service between 1943 and 1954.
 
<>
 
The takeaway is that I think the X29-to-B6 express variant conversion in HO resulted in a believable model, and I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done in S scale. I don't think I've ever photographed my car, but it did appear in a Model Railroader video segment I did featuring a variety of mail and express cars."
 
 
First, NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES!
 
I disagree with Andy regarding this conversion, because there are more issues than the different underframes.  The SAL carsides have the single row of rivets of the 1932 ARA design instead of the double row of rivets of the X29/1923 proposed-ARA design, and the X29 carbody is 9 inches shorter than the SAL prototype (8 ft 7 in IH vs 9 ft 4 in IH).  This is a very noticeable difference in HO scale, much less S.
 
That being said, it looks like you're caught between a rock and a hard place in S scale - start with an X29 kit and end up with a "short man in drag" model, or start with the Pacific Rail Shops 1937 AAR boxcar with square corner ends, cut it down in height by 6 inches, and scratchbuild new sides and ends, which will give you a better model but require a lot work than slapping side tabs and ventilators on the X29.
 
Ultimately, it's up to you.  Your mileage may vary.
 
 
Ben Hom


Fw: WESTERFIELD Models New Product Announcement

dahminator68
 

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As always, feel free to email us with questions or suggestions at: westerfieldmodels@....

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Westerfield Models, LLC
westerfieldmodels.com
westerfieldmodels@...



Re: PRR X-29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?

Andy Sperandeo
 

Oops! Those SAL express box conversions were done between 1943 and 1945, not '54. - Andy 



--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Hello John,


I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, so I'll point out that the SAL ventilated express boxcars were actually variants of the 1932 ARA boxcar design. They were originally built as members of SAL class B6, and 55 were converted to express service between 1943 and 1954.


The B6 class and the conversions are all covered in Ted Culotta's excellent book on the '32 ARA boxcars. Ted points out that the details of the Seaboard cars' bodies were quite similar to the X29's, but of course the underframes were very different and there were "tabs" at the ends of the bolsters and crossbearers instead of a continuous side sill.


All of that said, some years back Red Caboose did a special run of its HO X29 in the SAL express car paint scheme. I have one which I modified by cutting the side sill into tabs and adding approximations of the prototype's Wine ventilators.


I found a drawing of these vents in an old Carbuilder's Cyc and used dimensions from there to model them with styrene strip, rod, and lap siding to represent closed vents. There were also some variations in grab irons and sill steps that are shown in Ted's book, and which I did change on my car. (Of course, I didn't have the book then but I found a couple photos of the prototype somewhere.) I was lazy enough not to modify the underframe itself, but I generally don't invite people to pick up my cars and turn them over.


The takeaway is that I think the X29-to-B6 express variant conversion in HO resulted in a believable model, and I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done in S scale. I don't think I've ever photographed my car, but it did appear in a Model Railroader video segment I did featuring a variety of mail and express cars.


Good luck with your model,


Andy



--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Wondering about how similar PRR's X-29 boxes may have been to SAL's Ventilated REA boxes?  In S scale, SSA (S Scale America) offers a model of PRR's X-29 box that might be a good starting point for modeling the SAL REA Vent's if they are similar enough.
 
 
John Degnan
Scaler164@...
 


Re: PRR X-29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?

Andy Sperandeo
 

Hello John,


I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, so I'll point out that the SAL ventilated express boxcars were actually variants of the 1932 ARA boxcar design. They were originally built as members of SAL class B6, and 55 were converted to express service between 1943 and 1954.


The B6 class and the conversions are all covered in Ted Culotta's excellent book on the '32 ARA boxcars. Ted points out that the details of the Seaboard cars' bodies were quite similar to the X29's, but of course the underframes were very different and there were "tabs" at the ends of the bolsters and crossbearers instead of a continuous side sill.


All of that said, some years back Red Caboose did a special run of its HO X29 in the SAL express car paint scheme. I have one which I modified by cutting the side sill into tabs and adding approximations of the prototype's Wine ventilators.


I found a drawing of these vents in an old Carbuilder's Cyc and used dimensions from there to model them with styrene strip, rod, and lap siding to represent closed vents. There were also some variations in grab irons and sill steps that are shown in Ted's book, and which I did change on my car. (Of course, I didn't have the book then but I found a couple photos of the prototype somewhere.) I was lazy enough not to modify the underframe itself, but I generally don't invite people to pick up my cars and turn them over.


The takeaway is that I think the X29-to-B6 express variant conversion in HO resulted in a believable model, and I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done in S scale. I don't think I've ever photographed my car, but it did appear in a Model Railroader video segment I did featuring a variety of mail and express cars.


Good luck with your model,


Andy



--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Wondering about how similar PRR's X-29 boxes may have been to SAL's Ventilated REA boxes?  In S scale, SSA (S Scale America) offers a model of PRR's X-29 box that might be a good starting point for modeling the SAL REA Vent's if they are similar enough.
 
 
John Degnan
Scaler164@...
 


Rensselaer Railroad Shop 1992 Rolling Stock Catalogue & Buyer's Guide

dphobbies
 

What a title! Anyway we just purchased a rather abundant book collection and this little 30 page gem was hiding in it. A really good look at where steam era freight car modeling was 20 some odd years ago.

It is free to the first person that can give me a compelling reason it should be theirs. No calls please. (I'm not around anyway)

Ron Sebastian
Des Plaines Hobbies


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Aley, Jeff A
 

Well, it all depends on what you mean by “random”.  If you’re modeling a bridge route, you may see regular covered hopper traffic between offline shipper / consignee pairs.  For example, the UP carried covered hoppers of soda ash from Wyoming to Kansas (among other places).

 

Cement traffic appears to be much more localized (in Kansas, at least).  Alfalfa pellets (for animal feed) were also handled in covered hoppers in KS, and shipped to stockyards as far away as Omaha, and perhaps farther.

 

My point is that if you’re modeling a line that is between a producer and a consumer, you’ll need some.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 9:08 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 

 

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo


Re: Masking material for painting

Ted Culotta
 

I found that Frog Tape (frogtape.com) is the same stuff as Tamiya sells, but at a fraction of the cost per unit of measure. I bought it at Sherwin-Williams a couple years back, but it seems to be available everywhere now.

Cheers
Ted Culotta


Re: Wabash Box Car Question

Tim O'Connor
 

A 1960 photo of Wabash 20779 appears to show a galvanized roof, but
with body color painted seam caps. The roof shows no traces of ever
being painted black, and that would be highly unusual for any Wabash
box car. The cars were built in 1957 by General American.

Tim O'Connor

Based upon what I can see in the Wabash Color Guide from Morning Sun, go ahead and paint the roof and the running board the same as the car body.
Pierre Oliver


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have
worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for
what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The
model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the
usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am
replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however,
black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the
sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?

A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Phil

--
Phillip Blancher
http://about.me/phillipblancher



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Re: PFE Steel reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Dick, bring the solution to Cocoa Beach, and I can find out there! :-)

At 9/11/2013 07:01 PM Wednesday, you wrote:


Tim O'Connor asks:

Dick, what's the issue with the hatches? I'm just curious
-- is it easily fixed? Can the roof be replaced with an
Intermountain roof? Would that fix it?

I don't know yet.

Come to Naperville and find out.


Cheers,

Dick Harley

Laguna Beach, CA


Re: Masking material for painting

Tim O'Connor
 

The usual masking technique is to overspray the edge of the tape
with the same color that is under the tape -- and then apply the
new color over top of that. When the tape is removed, the color line
separation will be as sharp as the tape edge. Works great over all
kinds of uneven surfaces. I only use 3M plastic tape because it has
a smooth, sharp edge. Tamiya also sells such tape.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Wabash Box Car Question

Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
 

Thank you Pierre, most helpful.

Phil


On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Pierre <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:
Phil,
Based upon what I can see in the Wabash Color Guide from Morning Sun, go ahead and paint the roof and the running board the same as the car body.
Pierre Oliver


--- In STMFC@..., Phillip Blancher >
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have
> worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for
> what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The
> model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the
> usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am
> replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however,
> black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the
> sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?
>
> A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.
>
> Anyone know the answer to this?
>
> Phil
>
> --
> Phillip Blancher
> http://about.me/phillipblancher
>




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Re: Wabash Box Car Question

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Phil,
Based upon what I can see in the Wabash Color Guide from Morning Sun, go ahead and paint the roof and the running board the same as the car body.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have
worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for
what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The
model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the
usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am
replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however,
black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the
sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?

A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Phil

--
Phillip Blancher
http://about.me/phillipblancher


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Dennis Storzek
 

 


      I don't think the private ownership statement is correct. Numerous private owners possessed a handful of cars each in the 1953 ORER, with only two big owners, SHPX having about 900 and GACX having less than 500 more. Meanwhile, ATSF owned 1450 cars; UP, about 1000 cars; and SP + T&NO, about 1350. That's just three railroads.

Tony Thompson

I tend to agree with Tony on this. The early use of covered hoppers seems to be cement service, and almost all were railroad owned. That's not to say they didn't repeatedly hail loads for a small number of customers, after all, they were bought to protect a specific business, but they could be routed wherever those customers shipped.

Early use of bigger covered hoppers as grain cars, while really beyond the cut-off date of this list, seemed to follow the same pattern; railroad owned cars purchased to protect a specific market segment.

Where private ownership was common was with specially equipped cars, such as cars with food grade linings. In the past the railroads had supplied the car, but the customer supplied the food contact lining; cloth bags or paper in the case of flour loading. Note this doesn't apply to grain, because grain doesn't require a special lining until it's milled into flour. I suspect the railroads could just envision the damage claims they'd have every time the shipper made a claim fora contaminated load, and baulked at being responsible for the linings. Thus, the vast majority of privately owned covered hoppers during our time frame were specially lined cars such as Air-slide cars.

Dennis Storzek

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