Date   

Re: CV 40000 series WAS 40'IL 8'IH 7 panel Howe Z-bar truss (aka Fowler) box cars

Marty McGuirk
 

The CV 40000-series boxcars were some of the earliest examples of what are sometimes called "alternate" ARA cars.

If anyone is interested, I included a post on my blog about those cars:
http://centralvermontrailway.blogspot.com/2012/10/cv-40000-series-howe-truss-boxcars.html?m=0

I welcome any comments or feedback on the post.

Marty McGuirk

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Benjamin Scanlon" wrote:


http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/ic171500asw.jpg

San Juan Car Company has an exquisite model of the D&RGW car in O scale, while Westerfield offers this in HO. The
former may be a resource itself, while the latter's web page can help with lettering for many of the roads' cars (see the
4400 and 6400 series of kits.)

End of old draft.

Earl Tuson
hullo earl

thank you for the detail. this is very informative for me.

on the illinois central car, in TTnut a similar photo of a CV car was posted.

it looks a little too high for the 'fowler clone' represented by the gold coast TT kit, which i think is supposed to be 8' IH? however it is a very interesting car.

i have found on one of the rock island mail lists that a few of the composite ended early RI 'fowler clones' were still on their roster in 1962, but had gone by 1965. these are the ones with 18 thin roof ribs described in the O scale magazine article as 'mullions', as opposed to the 15 on the gold coast model.

(RI had later similar cars with steel ends and other variations in corner bracing, i think in the B-2 classification. i do not know if these were the same height as the earlier cars but they look similar.)

regards, ben


SE version of the 40' war emergency composite boxcar

Benjamin Scanlon
 

i've looked at the sunshine models pdfs for war emergency boxcars and the SE war emergency version which is 10' high, 6" lower than standard.

i can find an outline diagram of the 10'6" car ... sounds like a good place to start in building one.

I am wondering where the 6" height was pruned from ... was at the top of the walls, by just using shorter trusses and a thinner plank, or is there a more fundamental difference i'm missing?

regards

ben


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

midrly <midrly@...>
 

Which I why I was so glad that the Georgia RR USRA steel rebuild boxcar that my wife innocently gave me the Tichy kit for was painted in freight car red two years before my model layout era! Silver painted cars are pretty obvious.

I have a True Line model of one of CN's three aluminum-sheathed 40' boxcars, but have many regular CN 40' boxcars to blend it in with. Not so for my models of Gerogia RR cars--exactly one car.

Now if you were modelling the Georgia RR in 1954, odds are that you would have many silver-sided cars and a few oxide red. In this case, the oxide red cars would be the odd ones!

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:11 PM, timboconnor@... wrote:

Tony,

I subscribe to the contrary philosophy, that says if your layout contains NO unusual cars, then it's not
very representative of most railroads, since one can often spot unusual cars in photos of the prototype.
Yeah, Tim, but if you're going to have one or two odd-ball cars on a layout, they should be OBVIOUS odd balls (e.g., helium tank, dry ice reefer, drop-center flat car, etc.) Otherwise, who knows they're odd-balls? I'll bet the number of modelers, even on this list, who would recognize that the boxcar in the passing train was the one-and-only Union Pacific B-50-18 is very small (and I'll bet I could name most of them). For all but those very few viewers, where's the verisimilitude in having a stealth odd-ball that no one recognizes as such?

Richard Hendrickson





Re: Official SHIRT colors for ProtoRails 2012

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Damn!
I have to repack my luggage. :-)
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "sctry" wrote:

In order to enhance our Steam Era Freight Car modeling experience at the forthcoming ProtoRails 2013 – Cocoa Beach, the following thread from the recently defunct "Shirt Club Discussion Group" is passed along: "….the Fraternal Order of the SHIRTS membership selection committee chairman while relaxing with a refreshing Leinenkugels has declared that Cocoa Beach shall be a RED SHIRT Friday and BLACK SHIRT Saturday". All inductees and members in good standing of FOotS (a.k.a. Hawaiian Shirt Club, Chicago Shirt Mafia, Polish National Touring Bowling Team, Those Guys in the Crazy Shirts, Hey- Nice Shirt; where can I get one, The Shirt Club, etc.) to proudly wear their colors while participating in the ProtoRails events. Official alternate colors of TAN or BLUE are also permitted.

In keeping with past practices there will be NO banquet dinner this year. Inductees (you know who you are) shall gather on Thursday night at 2400 hrs 50 yards east of the surf line. If you have not remitted your dues by January 8th, don't worry, there aren't any!

J. Greedy
(Unofficial) Recording Secretary


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

robertm
 

I'm with Tim and Armand.

Recent research has found both freight (Whitings and Herlihy milk cars)and passenger (CNR First Class Coach) cars that were not regulars but certainly were very representative of both the railroad (CV) and the region(Northwestern Vermont). Results came from a co-operative effort by about 1/2 dozen people looking at photos found in published books.

Bob Moeller

I subscribe to the contrary philosophy, that says if your layout contains NO unusual cars, then it's not
very representative of most railroads, since one can often spot unusual cars in photos of the prototype.

Of course, all things must be done in moderation. :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Lunch at the Beach

Marty McGuirk
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" wrote:

For new folks or anyone really that may not have noticed, the "Friends of the Freight Car" will have lunch again on Saturday, January 12 in the hotel's restaurant.

Bill Welch
Bill,

Start time?

Marty


Re: Official SHIRT colors for ProtoRails 2012

james murrie
 

This will allow them to be differentiated from the passenger car guys who will be wearing Pullman green, Milwaukee orange or stainless steel shirts(also to be worn 50yds east of the low tide mark due to their corrosion resistance).
Jim Murrie

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "sctry" wrote:

In order to enhance our Steam Era Freight Car modeling experience at the forthcoming ProtoRails 2013 – Cocoa Beach, the following thread from the recently defunct "Shirt Club Discussion Group" is passed along: "….the Fraternal Order of the SHIRTS membership selection committee chairman while relaxing with a refreshing Leinenkugels has declared that Cocoa Beach shall be a RED SHIRT Friday and BLACK SHIRT Saturday". All inductees and members in good standing of FOotS (a.k.a. Hawaiian Shirt Club, Chicago Shirt Mafia, Polish National Touring Bowling Team, Those Guys in the Crazy Shirts, Hey- Nice Shirt; where can I get one, The Shirt Club, etc.) to proudly wear their colors while participating in the ProtoRails events. Official alternate colors of TAN or BLUE are also permitted.

In keeping with past practices there will be NO banquet dinner this year. Inductees (you know who you are) shall gather on Thursday night at 2400 hrs 50 yards east of the surf line. If you have not remitted your dues by January 8th, don't worry, there aren't any!

J. Greedy
(Unofficial) Recording Secretary


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

Armand Premo
 

Unfortunately many just run their,"favorite cars" and I tend to agree with Tim.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: timboconnor@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 4:11 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions



Tony,

I subscribe to the contrary philosophy, that says if your layout contains NO unusual cars, then it's not
very representative of most railroads, since one can often spot unusual cars in photos of the prototype.

Of course, all things must be done in moderation. :-)

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "proto48er" atkott@swbell.net>

If I gave the impression I did not believe the car was done, I apologize. I did not think that and did not mean to say it. My comment was that for most modelers, CHOOSING to include this car, which was one of a kind, strikes me as an extreme rarity and a poor addition to a layout freight car fleet. But obviously YMMV.

Tony Thompson


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

Benjamin Hom
 

David Thompson wrote:
"I like the d20 method. If you roll a 20, pull the aluminum reefer out of its
box, put it on the layout for that session, then put it back in the box at the
end of the day. Next time you roll a 20, pull out the UP ARA box, or the RF&P
stock car."

Do I get a pickle car saving throw? :)


Ben Hom


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

David
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson wrote:
But personally, I would draw the line at one-of-a-kind or extremely rare cars. That's why my fleet of over 40 PFE reefers does not include an aluminum car.
I like the d20 method. If you roll a 20, pull the aluminum reefer out of its box, put it on the layout for that session, then put it back in the box at the end of the day. Next time you roll a 20, pull out the UP ARA box, or the RF&P stock car.

David Thompson


Re: UPDATE SHAKE N TAKE 2013

Greg Martin
 

Here's final update guys. Looks to me we are full and I will take a few
reservations for hand outs at this point.
If you think your name should be on the list for handout only drop me a
prompt email as I am in the air all day Wednesday and will not check my mail
until after 10 PM EST. If you have a change of plans and can't attend please
let me know

BTW the hand out will also focus on the "long handed method" of kitbashing
the car so you'll all have the opportunity to be able to do the work
beyond the event. As always I recommend that you all bring a pen and a pencil
and as there are always comments made during the presentation that are not
easily remembered or on the handouts and can be valuable on the SHAKE N TAKE
list.

Kit and Handout:
1. Denny Anspach
2. Jon Greedy
3. Mont Switzer
4. Tony Thompson
5. Schuyler Larabee
6. Armand Premo
7. Craig Zeni
8. Jerry Glow
9. Mike Brock
10. Al Brown
11. Bill Darnaby
12. Roger Hinman
13. Bill Welch
14. Brian Carlson
15. Arved Grass
16. Bob Heninger
17. Richard Hendrickson
18. Scott Dam
19. Chuck Davis
20. Greg Davis
21. Matt Herson
22. George Corral

Now for the list of 1st Alternates or Hand Outs only room for twenty (20):
1. Charles Hostetler
2. John Cantlay
3. Fenton Wells
4. Stuart Forsyth
5. Clark Cone
6. Carl G Camann
7. Roger Wilson

8. Larry Sexton


There will be a sign up sheet at the registration that I will maintain for
the walk in crowd FRIDAY AM. I am sure I am not going to have to be there
all that long until it files up. Pass the word...

You might also want to consider bringing a kit (undecorated like ours or
decorated) and a graphite pencil to follow along and mark the/your car up as
there will be three (3) cuts to make the 37-foot car work.
Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Official SHIRT colors for ProtoRails 2012

sctry
 

In order to enhance our Steam Era Freight Car modeling experience at the forthcoming ProtoRails 2013 – Cocoa Beach, the following thread from the recently defunct "Shirt Club Discussion Group" is passed along: "….the Fraternal Order of the SHIRTS membership selection committee chairman while relaxing with a refreshing Leinenkugels has declared that Cocoa Beach shall be a RED SHIRT Friday and BLACK SHIRT Saturday". All inductees and members in good standing of FOotS (a.k.a. Hawaiian Shirt Club, Chicago Shirt Mafia, Polish National Touring Bowling Team, Those Guys in the Crazy Shirts, Hey- Nice Shirt; where can I get one, The Shirt Club, etc.) to proudly wear their colors while participating in the ProtoRails events. Official alternate colors of TAN or BLUE are also permitted.

In keeping with past practices there will be NO banquet dinner this year. Inductees (you know who you are) shall gather on Thursday night at 2400 hrs 50 yards east of the surf line. If you have not remitted your dues by January 8th, don't worry, there aren't any!

J. Greedy
(Unofficial) Recording Secretary


Re: USRA SS boxcars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Pieter_Roos" wrote:

Also worth mentioning are the Speedwitch Media freight car books and "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet", Larry Kline and Ted Culotta, National Model Railroad Association, Inc., Chattanooga, TN, 2006.

Both provide information on a wide variety of cars, which will be very helpful to TT group so they do not need to re-discover what various researchers have learned over the last 20+ years.


i will look into ordering something like that, as it seem a primer would be in order, for me, anyway.

i should say i am thankful to frank valoczy for his work in posting such a huge amount of information on the TTnut forum.

in the larger scheme of things, i would not be here asking questions at all had not my interest in the topic been awakened by frank's consideration in sharing what he has.

ben


Re: 40'IL 8'IH 7 panel Howe Z-bar truss (aka Fowler) box cars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Earl Tuson" wrote:

For some reason when I submit posts via my email account, yahoo does not recognize them as a continuation of an
existing thread, which can be a detriment to future archival searches. However, when I submitted the following email
via the yahoo web site, it did not appear on the list of messages. If anyone has insight into this problem, I would
appreciate your assistance- off list presumably.
hullo earl

i would respond to you off list ... but i replied to your earlier email to me, earl, and it has bounced twice now. i do not know if this is a symptom of the same problem.

regards, ben


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I subscribe to the contrary philosophy, that says if your layout contains NO unusual cars, then it's not
very representative of most railroads, since one can often spot unusual cars in photos of the prototype.

Of course, all things must be done in moderation. :-)
Tim sets up a straw man here, that I am opposed to having ANY unusual cars. I didn't say that, don't believe that, and don't practice that. I strongly agree that unusual cars are essential, and I have several. They are from pretty small railroads that by Gilbert-Nelson are of tiny probability but which, as Tim says, need to be part of the texture of a fleet. But personally, I would draw the line at one-of-a-kind or extremely rare cars. That's why my fleet of over 40 PFE reefers does not include an aluminum car. Perhaps that's part of Tim's "moderation" principle.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 7, 2013, at 1:11 PM, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

Tony,

I subscribe to the contrary philosophy, that says if your layout contains NO unusual cars, then it's not
very representative of most railroads, since one can often spot unusual cars in photos of the prototype.
Yeah, Tim, but if you're going to have one or two odd-ball cars on a layout, they should be OBVIOUS odd balls (e.g., helium tank, dry ice reefer, drop-center flat car, etc.) Otherwise, who knows they're odd-balls? I'll bet the number of modelers, even on this list, who would recognize that the boxcar in the passing train was the one-and-only Union Pacific B-50-18 is very small (and I'll bet I could name most of them). For all but those very few viewers, where's the verisimilitude in having a stealth odd-ball that no one recognizes as such?

Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

Brad Andonian
 

Hi Fellas,
 
I am having the decals created as I like to have the car correct for the box---   Tony's point is fine except I don't see any other UP decals in O that are readily available---so I may as well have the correct decal made.     Now, would I purchase another of these models---not likely as then to have two of a car when only one existed would create a different dilemma.
 
Anyhow---a lively discussion.
 
Brad Andonian

From: "timboconnor@comcast.net" <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 1:11 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

 
Tony,

I subscribe to the contrary philosophy, that says if your layout contains NO unusual cars, then it's not
very representative of most railroads, since one can often spot unusual cars in photos of the prototype.

Of course, all things must be done in moderation. :-)

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "proto48er" mailto:atkott%40swbell.net>

If I gave the impression I did not believe the car was done, I apologize. I did not think that and did not mean to say it. My comment was that for most modelers, CHOOSING to include this car, which was one of a kind, strikes me as an extreme rarity and a poor addition to a layout freight car fleet. But obviously YMMV.

Tony Thompson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony,

I subscribe to the contrary philosophy, that says if your layout contains NO unusual cars, then it's not
very representative of most railroads, since one can often spot unusual cars in photos of the prototype.

Of course, all things must be done in moderation. :-)

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "proto48er" <atkott@swbell.net>

If I gave the impression I did not believe the car was done, I apologize. I did not think that and did not mean to say it. My comment was that for most modelers, CHOOSING to include this car, which was one of a kind, strikes me as an extreme rarity and a poor addition to a layout freight car fleet. But obviously YMMV.

Tony Thompson


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

proto48er
 

Ben -

Thanks for providing the identities of the (5) demonstrator cars. I thought the UP car might have been one of them, but I did not purchase any of the PL models unless they had prototype numbers of (50) or more cars (rule to prevent falling off the fiscal model train cliff.) All my train stuff is at home, and I posted from memory.

Thanks for all the great posts on this list!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Hom wrote:

A. T. Kott wrote:
"He also imported a PRR car - I recall that there were 5 cars in that
series??"

I replied:
"NO! Just one car - PRR 36986, Class X35.
You were probably thinking about the five demonstator cars."

A. T. replied:
"You are right! Pat did do the demonstrator cars."

To be fair to A. T., PRR 36986 was one of the five demonstration cars:

ARA 1 -> NYC 100000
ARA 2 -> C&O 1900
ARA 3 -> PRR 36986
ARA 4 -> C&O 1901
ARA 5 -> C&O 1902


Ben Hom


Re: UP box car and USRA single sheathed outside braced box car decal questions

proto48er
 

Tony -

I fully agree with you! Only a card-carrying UP fan would want to purchase one! Pat must have had one such modeler assisting him on the project; hence the UP car. Thanks for your great responses!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson wrote:

A.T. Kott wrote:
Tony -
Pacific Limited did in fact import a model of the single UP boxcar. Pat O'Boyle imported brass models of about 16 different varieties of the 1932 ARA boxcar, with the appropriate roadname on each of the boxes.
If I gave the impression I did not believe the car was done, I apologize. I did not think that and did not mean to say it. My comment was that for most modelers, CHOOSING to include this car, which was one of a kind, strikes me as an extreme rarity and a poor addition to a layout freight car fleet. But obviously YMMV.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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