Date   

Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

Don Burn wrote:

 

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. 


      I don't think the private ownership statement is correct. Numerous private owners possessed a handful of cars each in the 1953 ORER, with only two big owners, SHPX having about 900 and GACX having less than 500 more. Meanwhile, ATSF owned 1450 cars; UP, about 1000 cars; and SP + T&NO, about 1350. That's just three railroads.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Armand Premo
 

Ben,I have yet to do a thorough analysis ,but a quick overview shows very few.I have just opened another bundle and it may take a few days to have an answer.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 

Don Burn asked:
"This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?"
 
Don, out of from the records from Armand's collection that I've analyzed, only 27 covered hoppers out of 5,474 total freight cars - 3 B&O, 1 N&W, 16 NYC, and 7 SHPX.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Burn asked:
"This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?"
 
Don, out of from the records from Armand's collection that I've analyzed, only 27 covered hoppers out of 5,474 total freight cars - 3 B&O, 1 N&W, 16 NYC, and 7 SHPX.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Re: outstanding article on freight cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Don;

From the data I have, they shifted covered hoppers around at least sometimes, and provided whatever was on hand. Some of them were dedicated to a given shipper, but others were not. Sand, for foundries and glass-making, went all over the place; however, it is always best to research what industries were located on the "other side" of your layout, to maintain plausibility. Few of them in my era were privately-owned.

In my case, Mississippi Glass Co/Corning initially got sand in box cars, then early covered hoppers like the PRR H30, and then by the mid-fifties, in later covered hoppers like the H33 and H34, and so on. On-line foundries got the same sequence of ever more modern cars in sand service. Ditto for cement service.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Burn
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 12:08 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars



This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Charles Hostetler
 

I posted some data from a passing report taken at Newberry Junction on the NYC.  It is a bit later than the period that Don was asking about (August 1956).  For this little snapshot, 61 of 1098 identifiable cars (5.6%) were covered hoppers.  None were privately owned.  Most were regional (B&O, CNJ, LNE, NYC, PRR, RDG), one was from Canada (CP), and one was SSW.  The report covered loaded cars and loaded and empty tank cars.  


Those interested can find the data here:


http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2013/09/covered-hoppers-at-newberry-junction.html


Regards,


Charles Hostetler




--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars



Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Don Burn
 

This brings up an interest question on covered hoppers in general. In the
late 1940's and early 1950's how likely were you to see a car on other than
a specific route. It looks like an awful lot of the early cars were private
owner so I assume probably serviced a limited number of places. Armand, in
general do you see covered hoppers in your wheel reports? And what are the
chances of seeing a covered hopper in a random freight train in northern New
England, or a lot of other places in the country?

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars



Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was
back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article
gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.
You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather
sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet
to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to
help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also
expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

al_brown03
 

I don't suppose they shipped that stuff to Florida?

 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. 


--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.                                                                        You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:58 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 


Guys, thanks for all the kind words on my Barretts cov hop article, it is appreciated.

I am trying to find out more info on the routing of these cars, if anybody has any info.

From interchange reports I know some of them were routed from the D&H to the Rutland RR at Rutland VT, up the Rut, across the OL&C div, on to Chicago. The Bob Collins color photo shows one going south on Richmondville hll, and I have read here that some showed up on the PENN.

I am not even sure if Barretts used all the granulated slate for themselves, or if the sold them to other roofing mfg.

Thanks for any info,
Mike Evans


Wabash Box Car Question

Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
 

Hi everyone,

I am working on a Branchline Double-Door 50' box car, Wabash #20735. I have worked from a single photo I found online of 20736, which has helped for what I have to weather the car like, however I don't see the roof. The model has box car red sides and ends, and a black roof. It came with the usual Branchline walkway which went right into the garbage bin, and I am replacing with a Kadee Apex roofwalk. Which colour should I use however, black, or galvanized? Or was the roof, circa 1959, the same colour as the sides and ends which means a roof repaint and brown roof walks?

A friend said galvanized but without a photo I am hesitant to proceed.

Anyone know the answer to this?

Phil



Re: Masking material for painting

Charlie Duckworth
 

I've used Tamiya's masking tape for years to mask and paint models; it is specifically designed for this purpose.  It's very thin making it easy to mask over rivets, it's low tack so it doesn't pull up the previous paint layers.  It comes in various widths.  


HobbyTown USA carries it as well as Squadron Shop on the web, am sure there's many other sources as well.


Charlie Duckworth  



--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Dave Nelson wrote:

 
This reminds me… the other day I was in an Aaron Bros Art Supply store and I noticed a variety of low adhesive tape was available… some from 3M, some Draftsman tapes, and others labeled Artist Tape.  I suspect the later two would world quite well w/ an airbrush.

        I continue to buy and use drafting tape, which I find has plenty of adhesion but doesn't lift previous paint layers. Great stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Andy Carlson

golden1014
 

Hi Guys,
 
Andy Carlson, at your convenience please contact me off-list at Golden1014@....  Thanks!
 
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Armand Premo
 

Mike,Your article brought out my aborted effort to build this car.It was back on the shelve waiting to be finished or tossed.Your excellent article gave my feeble attempt new life.Thank you.                                                                        You mentioned the routing of these cars over the O&LC.I have a rather sizable collection of Rutland wheel reports dating back to 1942 and have yet to find any of these cars on any of these consists.If you have some dates to help me narrow my search I would be very appreciative.BTW your layout also expresses your skills as an outstanding modeler.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:58 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: outstanding article on freight cars

 


Guys, thanks for all the kind words on my Barretts cov hop article, it is appreciated.

I am trying to find out more info on the routing of these cars, if anybody has any info.

From interchange reports I know some of them were routed from the D&H to the Rutland RR at Rutland VT, up the Rut, across the OL&C div, on to Chicago. The Bob Collins color photo shows one going south on Richmondville hll, and I have read here that some showed up on the PENN.

I am not even sure if Barretts used all the granulated slate for themselves, or if the sold them to other roofing mfg.

Thanks for any info,
Mike Evans


Re: Masking material for painting

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Nelson wrote:

 
This reminds me… the other day I was in an Aaron Bros Art Supply store and I noticed a variety of low adhesive tape was available… some from 3M, some Draftsman tapes, and others labeled Artist Tape.  I suspect the later two would world quite well w/ an airbrush.

        I continue to buy and use drafting tape, which I find has plenty of adhesion but doesn't lift previous paint layers. Great stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Masking material for painting

Dave Nelson
 

This reminds me… the other day I was in an Aaron Bros Art Supply store and I noticed a variety of low adhesive tape was available… some from 3M, some Draftsman tapes, and others labeled Artist Tape.  I suspect the later two would world quite well w/ an airbrush.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Aley, Jeff A



Don,

 

               This is a very late response to your message from last month.


Re: outstanding article on freight cars

Michael Evans
 

Guys, thanks for all the kind words on my Barretts cov hop article, it is appreciated.

I am trying to find out more info on the routing of these cars, if anybody has any info.

From interchange reports I know some of them were routed from the D&H to the Rutland RR at Rutland VT, up the Rut, across the OL&C div, on to Chicago. The Bob Collins color photo shows one going south on Richmondville hll, and I have read here that some showed up on the PENN.

I am not even sure if Barretts used all the granulated slate for themselves, or if the sold them to other roofing mfg.

Thanks for any info,
Mike Evans


Re: Masking material for painting

Aley, Jeff A
 

Don,

 

               This is a very late response to your message from last month.

 

               I recently bought some Frog tape.  The folks at Home Depot told me that the reason it works well is that when it gets wet, the adhesive expands to fill the gaps under the tape.  In my case, I intend to mask a heavily-textured wall where it meets a heavily-textured ceiling – a case where paint usually will bleed under regular masking tape.

 

               Now, how would that affect our models, especially if using a water-thinned paint?  I don’t know.  I also don’t know how aggressive the adhesive is on the tape.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:16 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Masking material for painting

 

 



I have got to do some model painting this week and some will require some masking work. Having seen a plethora of advertisements for the new
Frog Brand masking tape for household use I'm wondering if anyone has been brave enough yet to try it with models. Looks like it might provide a better seal against any bleeding but I do not wish to make a mess out of something if it does not release/remove easily as well.
Has anyone tried this material?

Thanks in advance and excuse my crossposting the same question to the PCL.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: MDT Reefer Models

devansprr
 

Roger,

Many thanks for the explanation - I'm not skilled at spotting these differences, but as soon as I read this they all jumped out at me, especially the visible end sill.

Cars are wrong paint for a WWII layout anyway, but doesn't look like a repaint would result in anything better than a 5 foot away stand-in....

Dave Evans

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, ROGER HINMAN <rhinman11@...> wrote:

If you put a correctly modeled MDT post war steel underframe car next to an Accurail rfgr, end to end, the MDT car is slightly wider and taller. When looked at from the side, these dimensional differences are not as pronounced.

The fascia board on MDT cars is taller and has a profile versus a flat surface. It is angled when applied to the end to match the ocntour of the roof. The Accurail car has a narrower flat fascia and on the end there is a full triangle shape to match the side fascia.

The MDT car has an exposed end sill with a characteristic spotting feature that the siding is full length for one boardwidth on each side of the end sill. The Accurail car has a buried end sill, only sheathing is visible on the end.

The MDT car poling pockets are placed directly on the end sill whereas on the Accurail car they are mounted below the bottom of the end sheathing.

There are additional issues with the safety appliances, uncoupling levers,striker casting.....


As you mention, many of the MDT wood cars received angle iron reinforcements on their ends, but this was not an as built condition on any car. Given the early paint scheme chosen for the referenced model, the reworked ends would not be appropriate.



On Sep 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, "Dave Evans" <devans1@...> wrote:

Roger,

Thank-you for the clarification. I am confused about the ends - is it the interface to the frame that is wrong, or at the roof line? I am not skilled in spotting the differences.

The early MDT cars seem to lack any exterior framing, although the post-war rebuilds (even when they retained wood ends) did add some vertical structures?

Dave Evans

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, ROGER HINMAN <rhinman11@> wrote:

my comments had to do with the Accurail car used for the wood model

Roger Hinman
On Sep 10, 2013, at 7:07 PM, "Dave Evans" <devans1@> wrote:

All,

Bob asked about both the steel and wood models.

The discussion so far seems to be focused on the steel car?

Is the wood model that far off? It seems to be a pretty good match (can't see the roof) to MDT 22223 (circa 1936-7?) in Roger Hinman's MDT book on page 152. The lettering in particular seems to be a spot-on match.

Am I missing something?

Dave Evans

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:


Bob, the lettering placement does not match any of the photos I've seen of the white MDT reefers.
The capacity data and the dimensional data are shifted to the left and right, respectively, on prototype
MDT reefers. But I'm no expert on MDT...

Tim O'Connor



An NMRA Division is selling HO scale MDT reefers in both wood- and steel-sheathed versions. These are painted in white with blue and red stripes:
<http://www.cincy-div7.org/projects.html>http://www.cincy-div7.org/projects.html

The cars are derived from Accurail's 4800-series 40-foot wood reefers with fishbelly steel underframes and Accurail's 8300-series 40-foot all-steel reefers.

Would anyone car to comment on the accuracy of the original models or the paint schemes on these specific models?

Thanks
Bob Chaparro
Hemet , CA


Re: brass model foam decomposition

Michael Watnoski
 

Greetings,

    I have been using Glad and Saran for years without any indication of oils leaching.  It seems unlikely that that a food qualified product would have anything harmful in it.  I will leave it to the chemists on the list to make a ruling on this.

Michael

On 9/12/2013 9:48 AM, mguill1224@... wrote:

 NO!  Do not use Saran or Glad because oil leaches out of the film onto the model.  Buy wrapping material from Reboxx that will not damage a painted model.  Also, wrap the model in tissue paper BEFORE wrapping it in the protective film.  Note that this is what importers do - they wrap their models in tissue and then in the protective film.  H.T. Guillaume



Re: brass model foam decomposition

 

 NO!  Do not use Saran or Glad because oil leaches out of the film onto the model.  Buy wrapping material from Reboxx that will not damage a painted model.  Also, wrap the model in tissue paper BEFORE wrapping it in the protective film.  Note that this is what importers do - they wrap their models in tissue and then in the protective film.  H.T. Guillaume


--- In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Greetings,

To avoid the problem of sticking foam, wrap
the models in clear plastic film like Saran wrap
or Glad wrap before placing in foam.

Michael


On 9/10/2013 10:21 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
> When Reboxx got into the business of replacement boxes for brass models,
> this problem was well known. They put quite a bit of research into the
> right kind of foam to use to defer decomposition as long as possible if not
> permanently. Since JP Barger is on this list, perhaps he could share the
> generic description of the foam they used.
>
>
>
> Schuyler
>
>
>
>
> Brass models almost always have a coat of clear lacquer on them. I typically
> soak my brass models in lacquer thinner for a few days, then rinse, grit
> blast
> (to remove tiny bits stuck to grabirons etc) and wash. Blasting is good for
> removal of oxidation.
>
> Tim O'Connor
>
>
>
>
> Much depends on the type of foam and type of paint. If it is just the foam
> giving up and sticking to the paint gentle polishing with a soft cotton
> cloth dipped in alcohol may help. This may cause the paint to develop a
> whitish bloom but a recoating with clear lacquer or dullcoat should improve
> things. Brasso is useful for polishing out well cured enamels and lacquers,
> but will lead to very shiny freightcars -
>
> If the original paint is an acrylic or of the decomposing foam has reacted
> with the paint or embedded itself into the surface, then I am afraid you are
> in for a complete strip and repaint unless the affected areas are small and
> not very visible
>
> Aidrian
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@... >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I couldn't find anything in archives on brass model foam decomposition. What
> can be done to the attack on the paint on the model?
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


PRR X-29 Box To SAL Ventilated REA Box?

Scaler164@...
 

Wondering about how similar PRR's X-29 boxes may have been to SAL's Ventilated REA boxes?  In S scale, SSA (S Scale America) offers a model of PRR's X-29 box that might be a good starting point for modeling the SAL REA Vent's if they are similar enough.
 
 
John Degnan
Scaler164@...
 


Re: PRR X-29 Conversion To SAL REA Box ???

Tony Thompson
 

John Degnan wrote:

 
... so I have to ask about the similarities between the PRR X-29 boxes and SAL's Ventilated REA boxes.  Aside from the obvious vents, how similar were these prototypes?

      John, surely you mean X29?    

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




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