This appears to be a case where the proper terminology is also the simplest for the new student of freight cars to learn from--
"See how this box car end has a square corner, while this one is rounded?"
"Oh, it sure is!"
vs.
"You can tell this box car has a Z inside each corner, while this other one has a W."
"I can?"

Scott Pitzer

On Jan 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Guy Wilber wrote:

As earlier quoted by Arved Grass:
"In the non-SP world, Southern also had (unmodified) 1937 AAR cars
with both square and W corner posts (curved corner - I think Ed Hawkins
is preferring this nomenclature over W corner posts now, based on
recent e-mail discussions with him)."

Then quoted 1/18/13 by Guy Wilber:
The preferred nomenclature for ends used on cars built with "W"
section corner posts should be that of the AAR; "Rounded Corner End."
The 1932 ARA and 1937 AAR box car designs originally used "Z" bar
corner posts with, "Square Corner Ends". It's as simple as that. The
AAR adopted the improved Murphy end for both the 1932 and 1937 designs
on March 1, 1941. All ballots (related to the change), Car Construction
Committee reports, and revised drawings used the above terminology.

Why anyone refers to any end as a "W" end continues to baffle me? At
the very least; please consider "W" corner post with rounded corner end
or simply call it a rounded corner end. Nearly everyone refers to the
square corner end without reference to the "Z" bar corner post, so why
not do the same with the rounded corner end?

Guy and Arved,
To set the record straight as may be required or appropriate, I refer
to box car ends as having either square corners or round corners. This
complies with terminology as noted by Guy Wilber and is consistent with
A.R.A./A.A.R. designations. I always welcome data that Guy provides as
I know the information is accurate and based on official source data.

More specifically this relates to the recent STMFC discussions of 1932
A.R.A., 1937 A.A.R. (i.e., 10' IH), and Modified 1937 A.A.R. (i.e.,
10'-4" to 10'-6" IH) box cars built from circa 1933-1946. Since 2002
rosters of these three categories of box cars that I originally
compiled have been available from the STMFC web site for downloading
and anyone's personal use. Admittedly, some of the data may be either
incorrectly defined or misleading. Despite making many revisions to my
roster lists over the past 10 or so years, unfortunatly, to my
knowledge the lists have not been updated on the STMFC web site since
their original 2002 submissions.

It should be kept in mind that the roster lists I offered to be shared
with others and uploaded to the web site were my personal Excel files
that I created for my personal use. While some of the definitions or
notations weren't necessarily proper or correct, I knew what they
meant. In retrospect, prior to providing the Excel lists in 2002 for
use on the STMFC web site, I should have ensured that terminology was
consistent with A.R.A./A.A.R. definitions.

Many of the subsequent changes I have made include better definitions
and notations of some of the cars' features. As an example, one column
heading was changed to "End Corners" with either Round or Square for
each entry. I have also added several new columns of information to
include more dimensional data (such as truck centers and height from
rail to top of running board) and more detailed data including type of
trucks and wheels, to the extent that I am able to define them. I look
forward to providing the updated lists to Rob for inclusion on the
STMFC web site at the earliest possible date. This is part of an
overall upgrade to the web site that Rob has in work.

Once the updated roster lists are available for downloading from the
STMFC web site, anyone finding errors, omissions, or having
recommendations for improvement can be reported to me off list for
future revision. The new columns of information sometimes contain
blanks in which I could not identify the item from a railroad diagram,
builder's drawing, bill of materials, published material from a
reliable source, or photograph. Thus, I'll gladly accept input and
feedback to continually improve the lists that should always be
considered "works in progress."
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Larry there is a photo of Cudahy reefer #5557 in the Billboard Reefer book
published by Signature Press.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Tim,

Same response you offered in 2001, and though I am sure you are offering it up with your usual good humor, it is still incorrect. As for typing vs. hobby time? I always view contributing to this, or any other railroad interest group, as hobby time.

You, as well as all others here, can go your own way; but it seems to me that any group so concerned with facts should use the proper terminology.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

Guy

Simple reason:

W corner -- 7 letters
rounded corner -- 12 letters

Another example --

ZU eave -- 6 letters
overhanging eave -- 15 letters

Less typing == more hobby time :-)

Tim O'Connor

Arved Grass wrote:


"In the non-SP world, Southern also had (unmodified) 1937 AAR cars with both square and W corner posts (curved corner - I think Ed Hawkins is preferring this nomenclature over W corner posts now, based on recent e-mail discussions with him)."



The preferred nomenclature for ends used on cars built with "W" section corner posts should be that of the AAR; "Rounded Corner End." The 1932 ARA and 1937 AAR box car designs originally used "Z" bar corner posts with, "Square Corner Ends". It's as simple as that. The AAR adopted the improved Murphy end for both the 1932 and 1937 designs on March 1, 1941. All ballots (related to the change), Car Construction Committee reports, and revised drawings used the above terminology.

Why anyone refers to any end as a "W" end continues to baffle me? At the very least; please consider "W" corner post with rounded corner end or simply call it a rounded corner end. Nearly everyone refers to the square corner end without reference to the "Z" bar corner post, so why not do the same with the rounded corner end?


Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marty and all;

Greetings from Bangkok, Thailand. I've been out of the country on
business travel and hammered with obligations for work the first part of
the year which has seriously interfered with hobby endeavors. I arrived
from China late today and this my first down time in over a week. The
travel also meant that I had to miss Prototype Rails last week. Its a
shame that a guy needs a day job!

Here's where we are at this point: <http://www.whatcheerlines.com>;

The pilot is on a temporary URL which will eventually be dedicated to my
own Proto:48 modeling. The blog will move to steamerafreightcars.com
and replace the existing site. I have tons of content to transfer yet
and more tweaks to make to the interface. My objective is to provide a
collaborative environment that allows many subject matter experts to
contribute. The topic is much bigger than any one of us and there are
multitude of individuals with unique knowledge, techniques and research
efforts to contribute. Several prominent members of our community have
indicated a desire to participate and many have contributed excellent
suggestions which I plan to incorporate. I welcome your comments and
suggestions and would enjoy conversing with other historians and
modelers interested in participating in this project.

I'd like to take this opportunity to again thank the many of you who
have already contributed ideas and suggestions.

Best regards,

Rob Adams

Doug,

I look forward to seeing what Rob comes up with. What Charlie and I are talking about in no way replaces what Rob is doing with the web site, if anything it will enhance it.

The "Strawman" of the blog is up now - I still have some tweaks to do to it, and we'll be adding some more content over the next few days, but y'all are welcome to take a look -

http://steamerafreightcars.blogspot.com

Marty

Rob contacted a few of us at the end of last year with a new revamped format
sample and an enquiry as to interest in perhaps offering content. He is
intentionally working on revamping and improving the website, between is day
duties. What I saw proposed looks very good. You may just need some patience
as he is not able to devote 24/7 to the task.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Jim, ie the cell phones, I recall last time I attended Cocoa Beach, the
second slide in my presentation was a photo of my driveway back home with
70"s of snow on either side, the actual temp of -31, and the date of just a
week prior to that years RPM. The slide included a notation that any cell
phone abusers during my clinic would be sent here. It was amazing how many
hands reach for pockets when that slide popped on the screen and I heard a
lot of bips, buzzes, etc. as they were put on vibrate or silenced.



Sometime all it takes is a subtle reminder.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

On Jan 18, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Mark M <bnonut@yahoo.com> wrote:

Just purchased a West Shore Line NYC Despatch Shops 1936 USRA "Rebuilt" gondola. Has the herald decals and nothing else.
Need help on who might have the rest of the lettering.

Mark, Funaro & Camerlengo made the original West Shore Line kits and they still offer this kit, though it now has a one piece body molding. They are generally willing to sell decals separately; e-mail address and phone numbers are on their website at <http://www.fandckits.com>;.


Richard Hendrickson

Bill writes in part:


"Florida Modelers, we have an offer from someone in Orlando to host a
casual gathering of modelers. Would someone be willing to help organize and
coordinate this with the person offering the space? I imagine Mike might be
able to help with names of potential attendees. Orlando would be central for
many of us. A few hours of sharing models, talk, getting to know each
other, maybe a presentation of two.

Bill Welch"


Bill brings up a great point. A Prototype Modelers meet doesn't have to be
a big ordeal. I remember the beginnings of Cocoa Beach it wasn't a three
day meet but it was a big crowd even in the early days, it just grew.

So why not a get together just as Bill purposes?

Here in Salem, OR our CENTER 50+ offers a room that would remind you of
our High School Wood Shop class for just a few dollars a day and has wood
work benches just like you would remember. You can show your models, have a
hands on clinic as well as presentations, all on a Saturday. The idea would
be to keep it small and let it grow over time.

A local Library would work and often they have display cases, inquire if
they can be made available for a month to display your groups efforts for
the public. My brother and some close friends did this when we were in high
school for the Garden Grove (CA) and Orange (CA) Public Library systems.
It's a great way to raise awareness. It's all about getting the word out and
leading folks to a place where they can FEED YOUR HEAD.

Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

Does anyone have photos they could be willing to share scans of for Cudahy
wood reefers in the series CRLX 5501-5600, or CRLX 8601-8700 and 8701-9100?
Per Billboard Refrigerator Cars, CRLX 5557 was one of 100 cars was built by
General American in February 1935. The dimensions listed in the July 1932
ORER for the series CRLX 8601-8700 and CRLX 8701-9100 stay virtually the
same in the January 1942 ORER and January 1953 ORER. I'm attempting to
determine whether the three series were built by the same company and to a
similar design. Thanks for any assistance you may provide.



Larry Sexton

List,

I apologize for taking up the bandwidth with this.

Jerry,

Please contact me off list. It would seem my recent email regarding my unfilled May 2012 decal order has not reached
you, or has gone otherwise unanswered. Thank you for your time,

Earl Tuson

Just purchased a West Shore Line NYC Despatch Shops 1936 USRA "Rebuilt" gondola. Has the herald decals and nothing else.
Need help on who might have the rest of the lettering.

Mark Morgan

Thanks Ben and david. This gives me waht I need.

Bill

http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/cocoa13

David Hussey

On Jan 18, 2013, at 4:44 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

3d. Re: reprint of the Cullotta RMC freight car series
Posted by: "BRIAN PAUL EHNI" behni@comcast.net brianehni
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:41 am ((PST))

The whole series? I'd go $50.

At least that much...I paid $75 each for Bob Karig's hopper car and the Postwar Freight Car Fleet books. The info in each is worth way more than that to me.


Craig Zeni
Cary NC

I found it is difficult to keep a blog going as a solitary effort, especially if the blogger/modeler is in the early stages of layout building. Moving three times in three years doesn't help either.

I enjoy featuring the work of friends, as it often reflects what I hope to do when I get to that point in my own modeling. I've posted six submissions on model upgrades in 2012 and I hope to feature a few more this year on my blog:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/

A few clear images combined with some details in the text can be a great starting point.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

I'd buy regardless of price, just to have them all in one place.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: pullmanboss <pullmanboss@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:44 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: reprint of the Cullotta RMC freight car series






Ted's 46 articles (#1 through 45, with two of them numbered 21) total 329
pages. For comparison, his Prototype Railroad Modeling books are 96 pages
each. You can do the math, but I'd say we'd be lucky to see a print version
for as little as $50.

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce F.
Smith" wrote:

Folks,

$50 is far more realistic for a price than $25 and depending on reproduction

quality and perceived demand, the price could be even higher.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

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On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:41 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

The whole series? I'd go $50.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: EdwardM >
Reply-To: STMFC List >
Date: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:25 PM
To: STMFC List >
Subject: [STMFC] reprint of the Cullotta RMC freight car series






I'd buy it for $25. Anyone else interested?

Ed Mines













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