Date   

Photo: Photo: Missouri Pacific Gondola 23724

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Photo: Missouri Pacific Gondola 23724

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=3933067

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: New York Central & Hudson River Tank Car W-6050 (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: New York Central & Hudson River Tank Car W-6050 (Undated)

A photo from the National Archives of Canada:

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/CollectionSearch/Pages/record.aspx?app=FonAndCol&IdNumber=4424970

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Possibly a different car number on the bolster.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Brian Carlson
 

When we’re done with color maybe we can bring up IC banana reefers or the J&L tank cars again. (Grin) tongue firmly planted in cheek. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 13, 2020, at 10:18 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Elden sez:

"Kodachrome…..they are the only slides I took that looked like the real thing."

Actually, Elden, they are the only slides that look like your MEMORY of the real thing 😉. Memory is a notoriously tricky thing and tends to "warm" colors, just like Kodachrome. Kodak, or, as we from Rochester like to say, "The Great Yellow Mother to Us All" knew what they were doing. People are pleased when their photos look even better than their memories!

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Eric Hansmann
 

I woke up this morning about 6:20 am and looked outside to see a beautiful golden cast as the sun was shining in under overcast skies. The clouds are now gone and sunny skies have altered the appearance of everything as I look out my window.

 

Time of day, season of the year, and elevation are other factors that will affect the color and appearance of objects on film.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

_._,_._,_


Re: Pool Service into California

Bob Chaparro
 

Just to add some where and when to the post, there were a number of automobile assembly plants in Southern California dating back to 1916. Below is a list, which may be incomplete. This list does not include several truck assembly plants that were located in Southern California as well.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Southern California Automobile Assembly Plants

 

Chrysler

Commerce, 1929-1971

 

Ford

Los Angeles, 1916-1930 (Santa Fe?)

Pico Rivera, 1957-1980 (Santa Fe)

Long Beach, 1930–1959

Commerce (Lincoln-Mercury)

 

General Motors

South Gate, 1936-1982

Van Nuys, 1947-1992 (Southern Pacific)

 

Kaiser Frazer

Long Beach, 1947-1955?

 

Nash Motors

El Segundo, 1948-1955

 

Studebaker

Vernon, 1936-1956 (Los Angeles Junction Railway)

 

Toyota (Truck Beds)

Long Beach, 1972-2004

 

Willys-Overland

Maywood 1928-1954


Car ID just for fun

David
 

The tank looks like a pre-1917 GATC car (though that doesn't tell you whose car it is), and I'll suggest that the car behind it is a C&O steel-sheathed rebuild of their 1920s auto boxes (the narrow door is on the right).

David Thompson


Re: Car ID just for fun

al_brown03
 

The tank car doesn't have stub side sills, so it isn't AC&F or Union Tank. On top of the dome, the two safety valves are a ways apart, not next to each other, but also not dead opposite. I'm guessing General American, and I'd model it with a Tangent car. (Most of what I know about tank-car spotting comes from Ted Culotta's "Freight Cars Reference Manual", vol 2.)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

devansprr
 

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 05:22 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
No one has mentioned the Robert Maxwell Colorado color from the 1940s, both standard and narrow gauge. Many of the images have beautiful color.
Tony,

Where can one find his images? Lighting in Colorado is normally quite different from Pennsylvania, and during WWII, Colorado was much more pristine, but they could provide a useful data point.

Thank-you,
Dave Evans


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Charlie Duckworth
 

Jim
Adding to your comments on color discussions some 8% of the male population is color blind and it gets worse as we all age.   


Charlie D. (Who’s green/red colorblind). 

On Nov 14, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Guys, guys, guys,

  To paraphrase Jim Wells ... "Just trust your eyes".  

  We are making way too much out of the concept of "the perfect color match" -
and even applying it to the color of weathered freight cars.  

  It's not about the right colors - it's about the right technique of applying a 
color in the correct range of choices for that shade.  Not only how it is 
applied but also when (in the process of weathering an individual car).
  Each 'layer' of color produces a different effect - especially based upon
whether that layer is applied before or after some other layer.  I'm using 
the term "layer" here but I could just as easily have used the term "step
in the weathering process".
  And, perhaps most importantly, "Variety is the Spice of Life" (weathering).
In other words - change stuff up in terms of when you do what, what shade
of "weathered grey" you use on this car -vs- the next, etc.

  Having said that there is the other side of this coin.  Look at any picture
of a freight yard (or a train with more than 20 cars visible) and what you
notice is that there is an overall feeling of same ness ... with a few cars
that stand out - slightly - from the rest.  The goal is to have your yards
and trains look like that ... and if the yards do then the individual cars will
"look right" also.  We all know that the color of the original paint applied
of any particular RR's "box car red" is often a shade different from any
other road's.   But those differences are subtle enough that a quick 
glance at a color picture produces the sense of sameness - not the
sense of "PRR's box cars were painted a different shade of Tuscan
than ATSF's".  Am I recommending that you use just one color for
BCR for all roads?  Absolutely not.  Am I recommending that you
use the same mix of color in the same stage of weathering.  Absolutely
NOT!  
  Repeating myself - it's about getting subtle differences from one car
to the next ... not about developing some "perfect process that you
can use for all the cars you weather" (unless your idea of "perfect" is
to have subtle variations - *G*).
                                                                                                 - Jim

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Car ID just for fun

O Fenton Wells
 

Don't know much about tank cars but it looks like the next car aft of the tanker is a USRA rebuild.  The 3 bay offset side hopper could be an MDC but I'd opt for the old Stewart, Accurail or Bowser.  Just say'in


On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 11:33 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
It's be nice to know the make up of this train (attached) running on the branch l model.

It's obvious the first car is an X31. I've been told the second is a D&H Seley hopper. I have a Bowser X31 and bought the F&C Seley to build this winter. 
Don't know enough about tank cars to guess which HO company offered that car, if any? Not sure the road on the door and a half box Boston & Albany maybe? The hopper kind of looks like the one offered by Roundhouse? Not sure about the last two box cars. I do have a much larger scan I didn't what to attach I can send to those who are really interested in I Ding the cars.
Thanks all!
Clark Propst



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Car ID just for fun

Clark Propst
 

It's be nice to know the make up of this train (attached) running on the branch l model.

It's obvious the first car is an X31. I've been told the second is a D&H Seley hopper. I have a Bowser X31 and bought the F&C Seley to build this winter. 
Don't know enough about tank cars to guess which HO company offered that car, if any? Not sure the road on the door and a half box Boston & Albany maybe? The hopper kind of looks like the one offered by Roundhouse? Not sure about the last two box cars. I do have a much larger scan I didn't what to attach I can send to those who are really interested in I Ding the cars.
Thanks all!
Clark Propst


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Jim Betz
 

Guys, guys, guys,

  To paraphrase Jim Wells ... "Just trust your eyes".  

  We are making way too much out of the concept of "the perfect color match" -
and even applying it to the color of weathered freight cars.  

  It's not about the right colors - it's about the right technique of applying a 
color in the correct range of choices for that shade.  Not only how it is 
applied but also when (in the process of weathering an individual car).
  Each 'layer' of color produces a different effect - especially based upon
whether that layer is applied before or after some other layer.  I'm using 
the term "layer" here but I could just as easily have used the term "step
in the weathering process".
  And, perhaps most importantly, "Variety is the Spice of Life" (weathering).
In other words - change stuff up in terms of when you do what, what shade
of "weathered grey" you use on this car -vs- the next, etc.

  Having said that there is the other side of this coin.  Look at any picture
of a freight yard (or a train with more than 20 cars visible) and what you
notice is that there is an overall feeling of same ness ... with a few cars
that stand out - slightly - from the rest.  The goal is to have your yards
and trains look like that ... and if the yards do then the individual cars will
"look right" also.  We all know that the color of the original paint applied
of any particular RR's "box car red" is often a shade different from any
other road's.   But those differences are subtle enough that a quick 
glance at a color picture produces the sense of sameness - not the
sense of "PRR's box cars were painted a different shade of Tuscan
than ATSF's".  Am I recommending that you use just one color for
BCR for all roads?  Absolutely not.  Am I recommending that you
use the same mix of color in the same stage of weathering.  Absolutely
NOT!  
  Repeating myself - it's about getting subtle differences from one car
to the next ... not about developing some "perfect process that you
can use for all the cars you weather" (unless your idea of "perfect" is
to have subtle variations - *G*).
                                                                                                 - Jim


Re: Decals for scale locations and light weights

Charlie Duckworth
 

Thanks for all the responses on the common scales. All that’s remaining is the C&O, GN, Milwaukee, Seaboard Air Line and Southern.  Just send these to omahaduck (at) gmail (dot) com  

I went though my photos this week and will scan the images I have for Humbert to match the lettering.  Any gaps I’ll ask for help.  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


PRR boxcar colour

Paul Doggett
 

Hi guys

Living in the U.K. I do have a problem with certain boxcar colours as I cannot get paint from the States, can anyone recommend a Tamiya colour that would be suitable for PRR circa late forties early fifties.

Many thanks
Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: Pool Service into California

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Fred,

Though it doesn't really answer your question, the Western Pacific was heavily involved in auto parts traffic. The WP served a Ford assembly plant in Milpitas, California. They had a small fleet (just five cars, 18501-18505) 40' double-door boxcars in auto transmission service which were converted from single-door cars and given racks 1955. Some of their 50' PS-1 double-door boxcars were also assigned to the Ford parts pool. IIRC, the Southern Pacific also contributed to this pool, and the WP and SP alternated in operating service to the plant. The Ford assembly plant closed in 1983, just after the UP took over the WP, but that's beyond our era of interest.

WP also owned at least two other blocks of 50' PS-1 double-door boxcars with Evans auto racks for carting away the finished Fords. These were separate from the parts pool cars.

There was also a large GM assembly plant in Milpitas, though it was only served by the SP. Later this built plant joint GM-Toyota cars, which wags called the "Toylet". I think this is now the Tesla factory. But again, I'm getting ahead of our group's mandate.

At one time Sunshine offered a series of cars based on the Southern Pacific's and Cotton Belt's "Motor Special" trains that carried both auto parts and finished automobiles to California. Sunshine put out a special four-page illustrated flyer on these cars.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 10:40 PM Fred Swanson via groups.io <fredswanson=rocketmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Robert kirkham
 

Bingo!  That describes what I am looking for.  


Rob

On Nov 13, 2020, at 10:50 PM, devansprr <devans1@...> wrote:

... I would like, someday, to create a scene that resembles the Delano photos - a vast yard of sooty and very muted rolling stock, but interspersed within it, a few freshly painted colored freight cars, in some cases with vivid colors, jumping out at the viewer.

YMMV,

Dave Evans


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

devansprr
 

Bruce,

I totally agree, and I have never claimed Delano's photos will provide anything near precise color matches of individual colors.

And having spent part of my career analyzing human vision in effort to improve military night pilotage systems (how do you integrate sensors and display systems that allow a helicopter pilot to fly within the trees at night by trying to recreate an image that has some semblance to what he would see during the day), I am keenly aware that the human eye works nothing like a camera and is an awful colorimeter - almost useless. It only becomes somewhat useful when the spectrum of the light source, its intensity, AND the variety of colors in the person's field of view, are strictly controlled. That is certainly not the situation in a model railroad.

Combine that with the variance in human color vision and I am not concerned with precise color matching - at all.

It gets back to artistry - I would like, someday, to create a scene that resembles the Delano photos - a vast yard of sooty and very muted rolling stock, but interspersed within it, a few freshly painted colored freight cars, in some cases with vivid colors, jumping out at the viewer.

I would much rather recreate that scene (for WWII), then try to precisely match the color of even one freight car.

People have the perception that the eras prior to color film must have been boring from a color standpoint, yet that is not at all the case - and personally, I think it would be fun, artistically, to drive that point home.

Hence why the Delano photos remain my gold standard - for the impressions they convey, which I am 100% sure are correct, not because I want to use them to match colors.

YMMV,

Dave Evans


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks Bruce! I appreciate Brianna’s wisdom. And you show a lot of good techniques. Still like Greg Martin’s post-it note shading! I remember seeing that described in Mainline Modeler an age ago.

One of the reasons I’ve pursued this is that I find whatever colour I start with - and whatever techniques I apply - I’m surprised how often all the cars end up looking quite similar. It tells me there are inherent biases in the way I look at it. And so I’m going back to the photos and trying to stretch my thinking. I appreciate all the contributions folks have offered in the last few days. Thanks!

Rob

On Nov 13, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:

Rob, Folks,

The handout from my clinic was already in the FILES section. I have created a folder entitled "Weathering techniques" that includes both the presentation (featuring Brianna, age 5 at the time of the photo... and if she can do it, you can do it!) and the handout.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Pool Service into California

Fred Swanson
 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson


Re: Was there ever a clinic on Delano-based paint and weathering?

Bruce Smith
 

Rob, Folks,

The handout from my clinic was already in the FILES section. I have created a folder entitled "Weathering techniques" that includes both the presentation (featuring Brianna, age 5 at the time of the photo... and if she can do it, you can do it!) and the handout.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

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