Date   

Again, Dry Ice

Bill J.
 

Many posts cover car construction and where and how dry ice was made. Unless I missed a post, the question still remains of who received dry ice and for what purpose (other than Crystal Ice in metropolitan areas). My model RR is set during mid-WWII, 1942 – 1944. Do I need dry ice service cars?

Thanks, Bill J


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. wrote:
Looking back, you are absolutely right on both accounts. Looking over too many photos today. Two of those tanks do seem to have unusually small domes.
One exception to the "2% rule" was for cars which only carried water, since its expansion with temperature is so small. Santa Fe did have a fair fleet of tank cars in water service, and if restricted to that cargo only, could have had smaller domes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

ottokroutil
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. ....
Richard Hendrickson

Another comment refers to "Hill B" in the photo. I believe the shot was taken from the 1st. Street viaduct looking RR east, with the passenger facilities on the left, in which case "Hill B" would be behind the photographer to the right. This photo is one of many Jack Delano photos published in Valle's wonderful book "The Iron Horse at War".
Regards, Otto



Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Additionally, by 1944, Santa Fe was using large amounts of diesel fuel to fuel their fleet of FT locomotives, especially on the Arizona Division.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 
On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Bowser PRR H30

cinderandeight@...
 

Andy,
PRR freight cars were not painted "Tuscan", but rather "Freight Car
Color". FCC was a shade of oxide red, that changed over the years from a
bright red, to a more subdued brownish red with the introduction of artificial
pigments in the 1950's.
Covered hoppers changed from FCC to Gray in about mid-1953; class H33
covered hoppers were still being painted FCC in June of that year. The
color change coincided closely with the change from the circle Keystone to
shadowed Keystone scheme, but not exactly. As such for a few months in 1953,
and early 1954 cars were repainted in the gray color, but lettered in the
circle Keystone scheme. Photos of these transition paint scheme cars are
fairly rare, and as such I am skeptical that Bowser actually has photographs
to substantiate the car numbers they offer. The shadowed Keystone
lettering arrangement for H30 was issued 6/9/54.
Further information is available in Rick Tipton's covered hopper
lettering article in The Keystone Vol. 35 #2 (summer 2002) issue. Interestingly
the two H30's in gray paint/circle Keystone illustrated in that article
are not car numbers produced by Bowser. (255284, 255323).
Rich Burg


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

There are fewer single-sheathed box cars than I would have expected. Since the majority of box cars appear to be Santa Fe, to the extent that such a determination can be made, what does that say about the Santa Fe box car fleet?

Did the Santa Fe have fewer single-sheathed box car series?

Had the Santa Fe replaced most of their single-sheathed box cars with all-steel, double-sheathed cars by the time of the photo?

Gene Green


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
As a note, we have often discussed tank car domes on this list and the size was related to the capacity of the tank to allow a percentage of expansion.
In the era of the photo, the minimum dome size was 2 percent of the compartment to which it was attached. Obviously an insulated dome appears larger on the outside that it is on the inside.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

rdgbuff56
 

Bruce, 
   Looking back, you are absolutely right on both accounts.  Looking over too many photos today.  Two of those tanks do seem to have unusually small domes.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


________________________________
From: Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:01 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 
Francis,

The domes are on the midline of the car, not offset. You may be mistaking the angle of the photo for that. As for one without a dome, I see domes on all the cars, of varying sizes.

As a note, we have often discussed tank car domes on this list and the size was related to the capacity of the tank to allow a percentage of expansion.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [STMFC@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. [rdgbuff56@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 8:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

It also seems that the domes are located to one side on most of these cars. If so, is that very common? Also, one without a dome?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.

________________________________
From: Steve H <nwicfan@yahoo.com>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.

I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.

Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA

________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Bruce Smith
 

Francis,

The domes are on the midline of the car, not offset. You may be mistaking the angle of the photo for that. As for one without a dome, I see domes on all the cars, of varying sizes.

As a note, we have often discussed tank car domes on this list and the size was related to the capacity of the tank to allow a percentage of expansion.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [STMFC@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. [rdgbuff56@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 8:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

It also seems that the domes are located to one side on most of these cars. If so, is that very common? Also, one without a dome?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


________________________________
From: Steve H <nwicfan@yahoo.com>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F



I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.

I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.

Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA


________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F




On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Thomas Birkett
 

Looks like an insulated car to me, and very ungainly.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve H
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 2:20 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F





I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.

I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.

Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA


________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com <mailto:rhendrickson%40opendoor.com> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F




On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

rdgbuff56
 

It also seems that the domes are located to one side on most of these cars.  If so, is that very common? Also, one without a dome?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


________________________________
From: Steve H <nwicfan@yahoo.com>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 
I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.
 
I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.
 
Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA
 

________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: UP B-50-32 or 33 builders or as-built broadside photos

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Mondichak wrote:

Looking for a builders photo or good broadside of the original white/yellow paint scheme for the UP B-50-32 cars. Hoping to use for some accurate decals for the Protocraft B-50-32's in their as-built scheme.
Is anyone aware of any?
There is a large broadside of the ROTS side, and a 3/4 view of the SATW side, in Terry Metcalfe's book, _UP Freight Cars, 1936-1951_ and the caption to the broadside says it is UP Historical Collection 14509. You could try the UP Museum in Council Bluffs for a print or scan.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Tim O'Connor
 

Panoramic photos of most major railroad yards show a high proportion of home road
cars, but as Richard says that is not representative of traffic patterns. Home road cars
can be stored because they're not needed, or need maintenance, etc. Of course this
is a reason why the panoramic photos are so sought after by modelers of those roads
because so many home road cars can be seen together, establishing which types of
cars and paint schemes, etc co-existed at a point in time.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson


UP B-50-32 or 33 builders or as-built broadside photos

Rob M.
 

Afternoon,

Looking for a builders photo or good broadside of the original white/yellow paint scheme for the UP B-50-32 cars. Hoping to use for some accurate decals for the Protocraft B-50-32's in their as-built scheme.

Is anyone aware of any?

Thanks Much and Merry Christmas!

Rob Mondichak


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Though there were exceptions (e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1 or 4 to 1.
Fascinating, exactly in line with what I determined from a conductor's time book on the SP Coast Line during 1948-52.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bowser PRR H30

Andy Laurent
 

Gents,

Bowser has posted images of their first run of paint schemes for the H30 hoppers.
http://www.bowser-trains.com/New_Products/New%2011%202012%20H30%20Hoppers/New%2011%202012%20H30%20Hopper.htm

Question pertinent to this list:
When did PRR switch from tuscan to gray for repaints on these cars? Circle Keystone in tuscan has a NEW date of 5-35, Kit#40722. Circle Keystone in gray shows a 2-54 reweigh date on Kit#40704. The Shadow Keystone car has a 6-54 reweigh, also in gray, with "Return Empty to Mapleton PA" Kit#40710.

Thank you,
Andy Laurent
South Bend, IN


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Steve H <nwicfan@...>
 

I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.
 
I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.
 
Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA
 

________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson


Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

David Henderson
 

Group...

Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

Regards...

David Henderson
Sacramento, Ca.


Re: Digest Number 7697

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I, for one, have noticed a significant increase in the number
of 'compromised' email addresses resulting in spam/crud/*!*!
being sent to the RR hobby related groups. These are rarely,
if ever, RR oriented spam and are 'just' some spammer or other
sending some of their crap to our groups.
The person whose email is being used is rarely (almost never)
using a "compromised computer" or even a "compromised email
account". But I suspect that those persons membership's
HAS been compromised (i.e. - the fact that a particular person
is a member of a particular group has been 'stolen'). We do
not know, at this time, how that is happening.

I certainly hope that the owners/moderators of the various
groups are -all- sending complaints to Yahoo. They can clean
it up - or at least reduce it considerably.
I happen to be a moderator of several groups - and on all of
those complaints -are- being made with Yahoo.

If you are an owner/moderator I hope you are doing the same!

****

For the rest of us - just ignore/delete. If you know the
person whose email has been compromised - personally (as in
outside of their group membership) then they will probably(?)
appreciate being notified about the occurence ...
- Jim

74541 - 74560 of 187280