Date   

Re: RGM

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Complete agreement!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Evans via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 9:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RGM

 

IMHO facebook is still as evil as ever!
Their sole purpose is harvesting your personal information to sell at a profit to whoever wants it with no known social responsibility.
If you're OK with that, go for it, but, as for me, I'd rather do without the information.
Luckily, you can still get into most facebook sites without being a member & harvest what you need,
but I understand that still opens you up to some extent to their data harvesting operations. (I'm not sure exactly how?)

Tom E.


Re: Cotton Belt dbl door boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

this may help to identify the brake wheel :-) My Dad's photo (and a VERY old scan)


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bob, Group;

 

While a long way from home (not really), for a URR gondola, and with a load unusual for that road (not really), I would add that this is typical gon behavior, from the numerous photos and documents I have analyzed.  They went everywhere, with everything in them.

 

No one currently makes a gondola model of this guy, but there is a nice F&C kit of the later 50’ URR gons unique to the “steel’ roads like URR, McKCon, Lake Terminal and others.  Everyone needs at least one of these guys.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 2:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

 

Photo: Union Railroad Gondola 7985 With Pole Load (1928)

A photo from the Detroit Public Library:

Blockedhttps://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A257347

Click and hold to enlarge photo.

Caption:

View of railroad yard and factory, Ambassador Bridge during construction. Crane on left; freight car on right. Printed on front: "11, 3/13/28."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: RGM

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I agree with Dave Parker that groups.io is superior for most functions.  What I have found Facebook useful for is developing sources outside rail-oriented people for historical photos and information.  I have a web site on the A&Y (since the '90s) and an groups.io email list dedicated to the A&Y to document and share.  I resisted using FB for the purpose due to all the reasons cited. I shared some of my research in the io list, but got very little feedback. And most of the questions asked on the list from railfans had answers that have existed on my web site since the early 2000's. There was some appreciation, but not much energy.

However, on FB I found a few individuals were interested in the towns served by the railroad.  I joined a few of those FB groups and saw some interesting info.  So I bit the bullet and created a FB group dedicated to the A&Y.  And wow!  I got a LOT of interest from town historians and those into specific industries (I knew about those collectors of the petroleum industry, but who knew people were obsessed on brick kilns and other industries?).  I have developed a number of new sources of info, received quite a few new historical photos (I model 1934, so it's hard to find anyone alive but relatives to interview these days).   I got confirmation of some ideas and theories I had about photos of steam era freight cars that may or may not have been on the A&Y.  I even got a photo of the switcher, confirmation of switching operations, and more info on a photo of the only apparent revenue freight car ever lettered for the A&Y.  Turns out it was likely MoW, but it still came from the steam era (though too late for 1934).  Still I now have a steam era A&Y box car to model!

So for those interested in getting the data they need to model freight cars accurately, FB is one more tool--with all the positive and negative aspects any one tool has.

When researching and building data on the steam era, I'm willing to take advantage of every tool available.

Just because groups.io doesn't have explicit data harvesting reputation, I would still wonder what is the financial model that makes this service available?  I don't think there is ever a free lunch.  As always, whether buying a "rare" "historic" photo or using a "free" resource to help with your steam freight car modeling needs, caveat emptor.

Dave Bott



--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Thomas Evans
 


My experience with the Rocky Ford factory confirms what Richard & Doug have said.
Beets in - granulated sugar out - no juice either came or went.
In later years, they built a concrete silo & shipped granulated sugar out in covered hoppers as well as bagged.
I understand that some other factories shipped refined liquid sugar in bulk, but I'm not well informed on this.
The pulp went out a pipe to the "pulp pit" where farmers could pick it up to make silage for cattle feed.
(That's the part that really stank!)
I understand that some other factories dried & pelletized the pulp, but, again, this is outside my experience.
The use of beet juice as a substitute for road salt on highways in the winter is a modern development post-closure of the Rocky Ford factory.

Tom E.


Re: RGM

Thomas Evans
 

IMHO facebook is still as evil as ever!
Their sole purpose is harvesting your personal information to sell at a profit to whoever wants it with no known social responsibility.
If you're OK with that, go for it, but, as for me, I'd rather do without the information.
Luckily, you can still get into most facebook sites without being a member & harvest what you need,
but I understand that still opens you up to some extent to their data harvesting operations. (I'm not sure exactly how?)

Tom E.


Re: OIL CAR

earlyrail
 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 06:39 PM, Matthew Metoyer wrote:
It's nice to know oil was recycled in the 30's, but useless for the original question about the photo from the early 1900's. The oil cars belong to a Milwaukee Road predecessor, correct? Maybe someone from their historical society has other documents that can help?

Not the Milwaukee, but the Omaha Route,   (Chicago, St Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha) a part of the CNW system
Howard Garner


Re: RGM

Jerry Michels
 

I agree Dave.  Facebook has too loose of a structure.  Jerry Michels


Re: OIL CAR

Jim Ogden
 


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Douglas Harding
 

The sugar beet plants in the Midwest, ie Iowa and Minnesota, were all in one processors. Sugar beets came in, in any available car, and bags of refined sugar was shipped out in boxcars. Liquid sugar and Molasses was shipped out in tankcars. I far as I know the only thing arriving in tankcars was fuel for boilers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Birkett
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 8:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

 

I hesitate to mention the cars I leased out for beet juice that were last contained sodium hydroxide, not clean. We don't buy beet derived sugar at our house.

Another question: in the steam era were beets crushed and the juice sent to another location for final processing? Always looking for a tank car connection for layout industries.

Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK

 

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...>

Date: 10/26/20 6:13 PM (GMT-06:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

 

They lined stock cars with cardboard and used them to ship grain, so why worry about sugar beets? Nothing like high protein corn flakes.

Steve Sandifer

 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Jerry Michels

Wouldn't stock cars used for sugar beets and cabbage be cleaned out beforehand?  They were cleaned out after a cattle shipment.  Regarding sugar beets.  They are refined to such an extent that no contamination would remain.  It is a pretty neat process I saw at the Holly Sugar plant in Hereford, TX, before it closed.  Dirty beets go in, pure white sugar comes out.  Jerry Michels


Re: Cotton Belt

Jim Betz
 

Gene,
  Great shot.  The car is 30 years old and still ready to serve.  I found
that stencil on the left door "This Door Is Stationary" ... interesting,
velly interesting (credit to Laugh In).
                                                                                        - Jim


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Richard Townsend
 

At least at the sugar plants I am aware of in Colorado, beets were not crushed into pulp. They were put through a slicer that cut them into “cossettes” that resembled French fries but with a triangular cross-section. They then went through various cooking and centrifugal processes to extract the sugar. At each stage the result was some form of liquid with more or less sugar content. I haven’t heard of any of the juices being shipped to other places outside the originating sugar factory. They did ship molasses in tank cars as it was considered to be a waste product. The remains of the beets came out as a pulp but that was a result of the refining process, not any initial crushing like with sugar cane.


On Oct 26, 2020, at 7:09 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Thomas Birkett wrote:

I hesitate to mention the cars I leased out for beet juice that were last contained sodium hydroxide, not clean. We don't buy beet derived sugar at our house.
Another question: in the steam era were beets crushed and the juice sent to another location for final processing? Always looking for a tank car connection for layout industries.

      Sugar beets were partially steam cooked and shredded, and the pulp was the source of sugar. (Done all at one plant.) I would think that "beet juice" would be a vegetable juice, not from sugar beets at all. 

Tony Thompson




Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Tony Thompson
 

Thomas Birkett wrote:

I hesitate to mention the cars I leased out for beet juice that were last contained sodium hydroxide, not clean. We don't buy beet derived sugar at our house.
Another question: in the steam era were beets crushed and the juice sent to another location for final processing? Always looking for a tank car connection for layout industries.

      Sugar beets were partially steam cooked and shredded, and the pulp was the source of sugar. (Done all at one plant.) I would think that "beet juice" would be a vegetable juice, not from sugar beets at all. 

Tony Thompson




Re: RGM and available time

Schuyler Larrabee
 

.  It's hard enough already to carve out adequate time at the modeling bench.

 

AMEN!!  It’s hard enough to find the time to deal with the posts on a daily basis.  I increasingly delete some topics en masse simply because the first two posts let me know there’s nothing I am really interested in .

 

And I’m now retired, with ?? LOTS of spare time???

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Parker via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 8:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] RGM

 

I'm OK with Facebook but, let's face it, groups.io is a vastly superior vehicle for sharing information, contacting individuals, archiving photos and files, etc., etc.  Search functions work great.

I now belong to 7 groups, and they all have something to offer (despite widely differing levels of activity).  Accordingly, I just can't see investing any time in Facebook groups.  It's hard enough already to carve out adequate time at the modeling bench.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

Thomas Birkett
 

I hesitate to mention the cars I leased out for beet juice that were last contained sodium hydroxide, not clean. We don't buy beet derived sugar at our house.
Another question: in the steam era were beets crushed and the juice sent to another location for final processing? Always looking for a tank car connection for layout industries.
Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...>
Date: 10/26/20 6:13 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sugar Beets in Cattle Cars

They lined stock cars with cardboard and used them to ship grain, so why worry about sugar beets? Nothing like high protein corn flakes.

Steve Sandifer

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:34 AM, Jerry Michels
<gjmichels53@...> wrote:
Wouldn't stock cars used for sugar beets and cabbage be cleaned out beforehand?  They were cleaned out after a cattle shipment.  Regarding sugar beets.  They are refined to such an extent that no contamination would remain.  It is a pretty neat process I saw at the Holly Sugar plant in Hereford, TX, before it closed.  Dirty beets go in, pure white sugar comes out.  Jerry Michels


Re: OIL CAR

Matthew Metoyer
 

It's nice to know oil was recycled in the 30's, but useless for the original question about the photo from the early 1900's. The oil cars belong to a Milwaukee Road predecessor, correct? Maybe someone from their historical society has other documents that can help?

Here is the link again: https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/siouxcityjournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/f8/af8ad4b3-f4cc-5521-9314-a0c07d569482/536574c6681e5.image.jpg

Matthew Metoyer
Santa Maria CA


Cotton Belt

Gene Deimling
 

I found this shot in my files. It is a scan of a print that I purchased from Ted Culotta.

Gene Deimling


Re: OIL CAR

Brent Greer
 

My father always kept a 5 gallon can of reclaimed motor oil to run through our chainsaws.  Part of what kept out house warm through the winter months in Virginia.

Brent

Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 7:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OIL CAR
 
Used motor oil also used to be spread on dirt roads for dust control. That was a great way to get lead and other toxins into the environment. That's why the practice was ended.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2020 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OIL CAR

Friends,

When I was much younger, many filling stations, especially locally-owned stations, sold reclaimed oil in bulk for automobile use. My father used to keep a couple of five-gallon cans of the stuff to pour into his Packards. Selling reclaimed oil pretty much disappeared with the homogenization of retail gas stations in the 1960s (which also ended distribution by local wholesalers who received petroleum products in freight cars--mandatory FC content). Of course, old oil is still recycled, but is rarely sold at retail, and most gas stations are now convenience stores that make more money selling snack food. 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:11 PM Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:
Used oil also makes pretty good fuel for some applications and was transported for such.  Mont Switzer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of CJ Riley via groups.io [cjriley42=yahoo.com@groups.io]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 12:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OIL CAR


A quick Google search led me to a site that stated oil recycling began in the 30s and grew substantially during WWII. Oil doesn’t wear out. It gets dirty and loses some of its components. Used oil can be filtered and additives replaced.



Re: RGM

Dave Parker
 

I'm OK with Facebook but, let's face it, groups.io is a vastly superior vehicle for sharing information, contacting individuals, archiving photos and files, etc., etc.  Search functions work great.

I now belong to 7 groups, and they all have something to offer (despite widely differing levels of activity).  Accordingly, I just can't see investing any time in Facebook groups.  It's hard enough already to carve out adequate time at the modeling bench.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: OIL CAR

erieblt2
 

Many must know this, but I’ll mention it here. The Navy cleans, tests, and recycles all lubricating oil. The old diesel subs(ie Bonefish, Blueback, Barbel-the ‘B’ sisters) even recycled the oil from the Fairbanks-Morse propulsion diesels. But it’s not economical commercially- except in huge amounts. I use to use ‘Wolfs Head’ Recycled oil in my old Ford Falcon! Fill up the gas and add a quart or two of oil! Bill S.


On Oct 26, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


Used motor oil also used to be spread on dirt roads for dust control. That was a great way to get lead and other toxins into the environment. That's why the practice was ended.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2020 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OIL CAR

Friends,

When I was much younger, many filling stations, especially locally-owned stations, sold reclaimed oil in bulk for automobile use. My father used to keep a couple of five-gallon cans of the stuff to pour into his Packards. Selling reclaimed oil pretty much disappeared with the homogenization of retail gas stations in the 1960s (which also ended distribution by local wholesalers who received petroleum products in freight cars--mandatory FC content). Of course, old oil is still recycled, but is rarely sold at retail, and most gas stations are now convenience stores that make more money selling snack food. 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:11 PM Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:
Used oil also makes pretty good fuel for some applications and was transported for such.  Mont Switzer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of CJ Riley via groups.io [cjriley42=yahoo.com@groups.io]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 12:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OIL CAR


A quick Google search led me to a site that stated oil recycling began in the 30s and grew substantially during WWII. Oil doesn’t wear out. It gets dirty and loses some of its components. Used oil can be filtered and additives replaced.


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