Date   
Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

Gary Roe
 

Tim,

The painting diagram shows they were No. 10 Red.

gary roe
quincy, illinois




On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 2:15:16 PM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Were these cars painted black, or oxide red, when they were new?

Tim O'Connor


On 12/22/2019 12:25 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/fd/8fd30101-1d09-50bb-bfcc-22400f6f6da3/578e9b1837e00.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C957

Caption: H&R file photo 5-16-1944 Local Wabash car shops have just completed the first of 250 new composite gondola cars and will be busy until after July 1 turning out this order at the rate of about four cars a day. The shops have built about all other types of cars but this is the first composite gondola for them.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 09:24 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
Based on the used price alone, can only assume it will be awhile before we will see one for home use to turn out quality parts. Plus depending on where we live we might have to pay to fly in the techincian Ryan mentions plus the $2K for the routine maintenance. We can dream however.
Bill, it depends what you want to do. While the Prohet machines seem to be the only ones that have a large enough build area to do complete HO scale passenger car sides and roofs, the SLA machines, such as the Form 2 that Corey used for the UCR gons are considerably cheaper, and seem to do decent work, as attested to by Corey's pictures.

And intriguingly, there is the little Anycube Photon, at 1/10 the price of the Form 2 machines. Also a photo cured resin system, but not SLA because it uses an array of UV emitters rather than a scanning laser to cure the resin, it actually claims thinner layer resolution than the Form 2 which would help with curved and angular surfaces. Not a big build area, but could be very useful for doors and ends. Typical of the hobby grade machines, the web site is very lean on technical specifications, but this review has what I was looking for: anycubic-photon-review

Of course it remains to be seen if such a lightly built machine can keep the layers aligned, but we'll never know unless someone tries one for our type of parts. If I wasn't still working, I'd give one a try.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Youngstown Door Nomenclature

Randy Hammill
 

One more thought. Another reason why I think it makes sense to think in terms of the joint not being a corrugation that is counted, is to think of the panels independently. That is, the top panel of a door, whether the joint is raised or flat, has x number of corrugations. Until it is actually attached to another panel, the bottom raised portion of the panel wouldn't be a corrugation, it would just be the bottom frame of the panel. 

In other words, if you were constructing a door, and the current panels had a raised joint, you'd select two 5 corrugation panels and one 4 corrugation panel for door #3. If that makes sense.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Re: Youngstown Door Nomenclature

Randy Hammill
 

Looking at the pictures, I don't understand how you're counting things. For example, I would count first two pictures as 5/7/5 and the third as either 5/5/4 or 6/6/4, depending on whether you count the raised portion where the sheets join as a corrugation, but I wouldn't count the bottom, because you haven't counted the top or the bottom (the frame) on any of the doors. Personally, I think the corrugations should be counted independently of the frame and the location of the panel connections, whether that is on the "flat" or raised in a manner that resembles a corrugation. In other words, the door frame and the joint forms the frame around the corrugations that are actually counted. 

Why? Well, identifying whether the joint is raised or not clarifies things better than counting the joints only when raised. For example, in picture 2 I count 5/7/5. In picture 3 I count 5/5/4 with raised joints. This maintains consistency because we are then counting corrugations between the frame and joint. Otherwise do you count the raised joining panel as part of the group of corrugations above it, or below it? It could be a 6/6/4, or a 5/6/5. But it's not the same as a 5/6/5 door with flat joints.

Also, I've seen the word "interim" used for things like this (and the "interim" Improved Dreadnaught End). I'm not a fan of this nomenclature. For the Improved Dreadnaught End it's just plain wrong, that was a trademarked name and no "interim" applies. To me, "interim" implies a temporary thing while the proper thing is prepared or ready (such as an interim manager, while the company goes through the process of hiring a permanent one). But in the case of freight car doors and ends, they were always modifying and improving their products. So each one would either be "interim" or none.

We certainly need to describe the differences between the doors since there are so many variations, and in many cases they probably carried the same trade name (although I haven't looked extensively at ads yet to see what, if any, different terminology they used. Where possible, I would think that the year of introduction would be the best identifier.

My thoughts anyway. I appreciate the effort and would love to see how this evolves with input from the group. Thanks.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

steve_wintner
 

Thank you! That explains what happened to some parts I ordered - I didn't understand the surface striations I got. Not big but visible. Now I do. Well... May need to try again.

Steve

Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

bigfourroad
 

Thanks for the pix of the actual prints. So infrequently see the real results. Agree that in HO the striations (stepping) are not objectionable. As you move up to S scale, I am tempted to think from your very helpful pix that one could live with them or use some of Ryan's National Scale Car sanders to get at them.  You play the cards you are dealt or go without as they say.
Chris Rooney

Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

Bill Welch
 

No worries, see you at THE Beach Ryan.

Bill Welch

Re: 3D printing (Was: New early P&R steel.....)

Ryan Mendell
 

I will take a video but I am off work for two weeks so it will have to wait


On Dec 22, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Here is a used 3D Systems Projet 3600. https://www.ebay.com/i/264277258999?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=264277258999&targetid=593772166493&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9012145&poi=&campaignid=2086169716&mkgroupid=76147899766&rlsatarget=aud-412677883135:pla-593772166493&abcId=1141016&merchantid=6296724&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImd65nN_J5gIVTvDACh3RMgOnEAQYASABEgIM5_D_BwE

Based on the used price alone, can only assume it will be awhile before we will see one for home use to turn out quality parts. Plus depending on where we live we might have to pay to fly in the techincian Ryan mentions plus the $2K for the routine maintenance. We can dream however.

Wondering if there is any video showing the 3D Systems Projet 3600 or Projet 5500 printer in action?

Thank you Ryan for taking time to explain the complexities.

Bill Welch

Re: ATSF Bx-48 running board

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

Bx-48
ATSF 274714, at least, appears to have had a MORTON running board and brake step.

The photo date is 1977, but the car is almost certainly original.

Tim



On 12/22/2019 2:21 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:


On Dec 17, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Lester Breuer <frograbbit602@...> wrote:

Hello Ed,

I have a question on ATSF Bx -48 on the running board.  In your spreadsheet on Steam Era Freight Cars you state the ATSF Bx-48 has U.S. Gypsum (expanded metal) and Pierre in his kit 105.1 states Apex Tri-Lok.  Do you know if Pierre’s choice is correct correct? 

I appreciate your comments.  Thank You.

Happy Holidays,
Lester Breuer

STMFC,
I have corresponded off-list with Lester about this question. For the STMFC discussion group I offer the following information.

For the ATSF Bx-48 box cars 274000-274749, my STMFC roster with file name "Postwar AAR 4-4 IDN & NSC (1945-1950s).pdf" that states G1 (U.S. Gypsum of the expanded metal design) is incorrect. My apology for the error, and I have made a correction to my list to denote M* for Morton running boards/brake step. The asterisk indicates the possibility than one or more other types may have been used on the order of 750 cars. 

 For anyone who has downloaded the file, please annotate your copy accordingly.

The ATSF box car diagrams denote many specialties but do not specify the running boards/brake steps for the Bx-48 cars. I also lack having ATSF or Pullman-Standard documentation for these lot 5832 cars that specifies the type(s) of running boards/brake steps applied to the entire series. For a long time, my only photo from the Bx-48 class was a side view of 274332. From this photo I originally identified the running boards/brake step as U.S. Gypsum, but a closer look shows Morton.

The only other Bx-48 photo I’ve seen is the Pullman-Standard builder photo of 274199 published on p. 345 of the 1949-1951 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia. The print quality makes it difficult to discern that the car had a Morton running board & brake step. Patrick C. Wider published the same photo obtained from the Library and Archives Canada on p. 207 of RP CYC Volume 31-32. 

If members of the STMFC have other photos of ATSF Bx-48 box cars with a clear view of the running boards/brake step, please share in order to help determine if Morton was the only type used.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins
_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

Tim O'Connor
 


Were these cars painted black, or oxide red, when they were new?

Tim O'Connor


On 12/22/2019 12:25 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/fd/8fd30101-1d09-50bb-bfcc-22400f6f6da3/578e9b1837e00.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C957

Caption: H&R file photo 5-16-1944 Local Wabash car shops have just completed the first of 250 new composite gondola cars and will be busy until after July 1 turning out this order at the rate of about four cars a day. The shops have built about all other types of cars but this is the first composite gondola for them.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: ATSF Bx-48 running board

Ed Hawkins
 



On Dec 17, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Lester Breuer <frograbbit602@...> wrote:

Hello Ed,

I have a question on ATSF Bx -48 on the running board.  In your spreadsheet on Steam Era Freight Cars you state the ATSF Bx-48 has U.S. Gypsum (expanded metal) and Pierre in his kit 105.1 states Apex Tri-Lok.  Do you know if Pierre’s choice is correct correct? 

I appreciate your comments.  Thank You.

Happy Holidays,
Lester Breuer

STMFC,
I have corresponded off-list with Lester about this question. For the STMFC discussion group I offer the following information.

For the ATSF Bx-48 box cars 274000-274749, my STMFC roster with file name "Postwar AAR 4-4 IDN & NSC (1945-1950s).pdf" that states G1 (U.S. Gypsum of the expanded metal design) is incorrect. My apology for the error, and I have made a correction to my list to denote M* for Morton running boards/brake step. The asterisk indicates the possibility than one or more other types may have been used on the order of 750 cars. 

 For anyone who has downloaded the file, please annotate your copy accordingly.

The ATSF box car diagrams denote many specialties but do not specify the running boards/brake steps for the Bx-48 cars. I also lack having ATSF or Pullman-Standard documentation for these lot 5832 cars that specifies the type(s) of running boards/brake steps applied to the entire series. For a long time, my only photo from the Bx-48 class was a side view of 274332. From this photo I originally identified the running boards/brake step as U.S. Gypsum, but a closer look shows Morton.

The only other Bx-48 photo I’ve seen is the Pullman-Standard builder photo of 274199 published on p. 345 of the 1949-1951 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia. The print quality makes it difficult to discern that the car had a Morton running board & brake step. Patrick C. Wider published the same photo obtained from the Library and Archives Canada on p. 207 of RP CYC Volume 31-32. 

If members of the STMFC have other photos of ATSF Bx-48 box cars with a clear view of the running boards/brake step, please share in order to help determine if Morton was the only type used.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: Photo: ACL 17859

radiodial868
 

Southern-grown watermelons.  Real thick rind (made great watermelon pickles) deep red juicy flesh with lots of black seeds. Weighed a ton, but shipped and stored well. Fell out of favor in the early 1970's because of that weight, thick rind and seeds.  So, we now get those bland, tasteless, smaller and sometimes seedless things in the stores.
RJ Dial
(ex USDA guy)

Re: Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

Did anyone else notice that the photo of NJI&I is a very crude fake? Blow it up and you will see that the rivets appear to have been added through retouching and the trucks look like they were drawn by hand. It appears that the lettering was added onto a photo of another car. Even the panels are not of uniform width, though this did happen. Perhaps this photo is a mock-up done before the cars were actually built and lettered.

      Sometimes when a photo like this, of the shady side of a car, doesn't have all the detail you wished it did, the lab would "improve" it for you. Both the trucks and the rivet rows clearly look enhanced. I noticed that the reporting mark stripes are not correctly aligned with the vanishing-point angle. All that lettering on the right of the car side, in fact, is probably not in the original negative.

Tony Thompson



Re: Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Did anyone else notice that the photo of NJI&I is a very crude fake? Blow it up and you will see that the rivets appear to have been added through retouching and the trucks look like they were drawn by hand. It appears that the lettering was added onto a photo of another car. Even the panels are not of uniform width, though this did happen. Perhaps this photo is a mock-up done before the cars were actually built and lettered.

NJI&I indeed did have a series of boxcar that match this number, 4100-4149. 

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 12:25 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/f7/8f7680d3-54b4-57ad-939d-3a8c99db526b/578e9b15500aa.image.jpg?resize=750%2C583

Caption: H&R file photo 2-3-1944 First new all-steel cars to be turned out at the Wabash car shops since relaxation of steel priorities for railroad work is a boxcar for the N.J.I. and I., a Wabash-controlled branch line in Northern Indiana.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Photo: ACL 17859

Donald B. Valentine
 

   I wondered about pumpkins as well, Doug, but these have too much length for any pumpkin
variety I've ever seen even some grown hereabouts that have gone well over 1,000 pounds. Some
have been carved into Cindarella's coach for display at fairs.

My best, Don Valentine

Re: Bridge girder on three PRR FM flat cars

Donald B. Valentine
 

Proving once again that the DL&W LOVED concrete! I don't know if I've ever seen another road that used
so much concrete for everything from culverts to major viaducts. Most seem to have withstood the test of
time quite well. Are there any any that have failed that I am unaware of?

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: ATSF AAR 40’ Box Panels ?

John Barry
 

Alan,

You may be able to obtain a scan of the Santa Fe blueprints for the cars from the archives in Temple Tx.  Contact Craig Ordner, he archivist.  I have obtained the sheets for the Bx-34 for this year's Shake & Take from there.  I'm not sure on availability as anything past the Bx-44 is too new for me.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, December 20, 2019, 07:35:10 PM EST, Allan Smith <smithal9@...> wrote:


I have been looking at photos of the ATSF Boxcar series with the twelve panel sides and am trying to determine the dimensions of the one wide panel and the five narrow panels on each side of the door. Does anyone have a drawing of this series giving those dimensions? my calculations Scaled from blown up photos, the car is 40'6" or 486", so I come up with 3-44-32-32-32-32-32-72-32-32-32-32-44-3, 3" for the ends 72" for the door. I have conductors lists from 1954 on the Sierra Railroad and there are 15 cars from the 12 panel series Bx-48 Bx-50 Bx-51 Bx-53 Bx-60 Bx-62 Bx-63 on the list. I am trying to build the cars from this list for my railroad and would like to be as accurate as possible. If anyone has this info it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You 

Al Smith
Sonora CA
"

On Thursday, December 19, 2019, 06:31:02 AM PST, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks for sharing Ted
Fenton 


On Dec 19, 2019, at 8:08 AM, Ted Culotta <speedwitchmedia@...> wrote:

Re: Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

Bill Welch
 

War Emergency gon available in kit form from Funaro & Camerlengo.

Bill Welch

Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Wabash Gondola 13000

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/fd/8fd30101-1d09-50bb-bfcc-22400f6f6da3/578e9b1837e00.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C957

Caption: H&R file photo 5-16-1944 Local Wabash car shops have just completed the first of 250 new composite gondola cars and will be busy until after July 1 turning out this order at the rate of about four cars a day. The shops have built about all other types of cars but this is the first composite gondola for them.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NJI&I Boxcar 4100

From the Decatur, IL, Herald & Review archives:

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-review.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/f7/8f7680d3-54b4-57ad-939d-3a8c99db526b/578e9b15500aa.image.jpg?resize=750%2C583

Caption: H&R file photo 2-3-1944 First new all-steel cars to be turned out at the Wabash car shops since relaxation of steel priorities for railroad work is a boxcar for the N.J.I. and I., a Wabash-controlled branch line in Northern Indiana.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA