Date   

Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Brian Carlson
 

In my case the Kadee wheels would be only in Kadee trucks.

Brian J. Carlson

On May 14, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@tir.com> wrote:

Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Dan and List Members,
 
Dan wrote: “My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”
 
Some folks (myself included) feel that a plastic axle turning within a plastic truck is undesirable for another reason – it produces a lot of static electricity. This being caused by the constant plastic-on-plastic rubbing action. One way to envision this is the old kids trick of rubbing a balloon on your clothes – the balloon then likes to stick to things because of the static charge that the balloon acquires. The theory is that when this occurs with a plastic wheelset to plastic truck combination, dust and dirt is attracted onto the wheelset, and then later that same dust and dirt gets deposited by the wheel onto the track.
 
It sounds plausible to me, but I have no real way of proving this. I do feel my track stays cleaner longer when I don’t run plastic wheelset to plastic truck combinations.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 

From: Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:22 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee code 88 wheels.
 
Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.
 
1) The kadee plastic axles have a very fibrous structure ... look at the end of one under high magnification. It is ROUGH .. rather like the end of a brush. This seems to cause little if any problem running in metal sideframes, but it is very abrasive to softer plastic sideframes. After long periods of operation it wears the sideframe sockets into oval shapes. This eventually , ruins the sideframes, lowers the car enough to cause coupler-height problems, and destroys rolling qualities. It does take a long time, but is undeniable. I’ve seen it most with Athearn plastic trucks, but that may be because I had so many of them. All these trucks had to be replaced. I don’t have enough experience to know if this also applies to the plastic axle P2K wheelsets. I’ve seen this problem with NO other axles. My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”.
 
2) The metal-black DOES contribute to the “black gunk” not the rails. I have lots of experience with this problem. Run a long train of cars with “shiny” metal wheels and have little dirt accumulation after HOURS of operation. Insert a half dozen cars with metal blackened wheelsets, and in an hour or two you’ll have “black gunk” on the rails. This applies to Kadee and many other blackened wheels. One problem I see is that many of them have a LOT of “blackening” residue on the wheels (“over blackened”?) ... often its even powdery and will flake off. This is poor quality control. However, even a smooth, hard blackened surface will wear off in operation, and leave residue the track. I am not sure whether this contributes a lot to poor electrical contact, but it surely does make a mess.
 
Both observations above are the result of many LONG hours of train operation on a club layout during public display. It’s not unusual to run a 50-70 car train for 5-6 hours continuously, several days a week, for weeks on end, and I’ve been doing this intermittently for over 40 years.
 
Dan Mitchell
==========
 

On May 14, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:
 
Thanks Denny and Todd. 
 
Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so.

Brian J. Carlson

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  
 
The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.
 
Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864
 
 
 
 


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.

1) The kadee plastic axles have a very fibrous structure ... look at the end of one under high magnification. It is ROUGH .. rather like the end of a brush. This seems to cause little if any problem running in metal sideframes, but it is very abrasive to softer plastic sideframes. After long periods of operation it wears the sideframe sockets into oval shapes. This eventually , ruins the sideframes, lowers the car enough to cause coupler-height problems, and destroys rolling qualities. It does take a long time, but is undeniable. I’ve seen it most with Athearn plastic trucks, but that may be because I had so many of them. All these trucks had to be replaced. I don’t have enough experience to know if this also applies to the plastic axle P2K wheelsets. I’ve seen this problem with NO other axles. My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”.

2) The metal-black DOES contribute to the “black gunk” not the rails. I have lots of experience with this problem. Run a long train of cars with “shiny” metal wheels and have little dirt accumulation after HOURS of operation. Insert a half dozen cars with metal blackened wheelsets, and in an hour or two you’ll have “black gunk” on the rails. This applies to Kadee and many other blackened wheels. One problem I see is that many of them have a LOT of “blackening” residue on the wheels (“over blackened”?) ... often its even powdery and will flake off. This is poor quality control. However, even a smooth, hard blackened surface will wear off in operation, and leave residue the track. I am not sure whether this contributes a lot to poor electrical contact, but it surely does make a mess.

Both observations above are the result of many LONG hours of train operation on a club layout during public display. It’s not unusual to run a 50-70 car train for 5-6 hours continuously, several days a week, for weeks on end, and I’ve been doing this intermittently for over 40 years.

Dan Mitchell
==========


On May 14, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864





Re: Latest run of Intermountain (Wegmann) HO PFE Rebuilt Reefers

William Hirt
 

Intermountain is one of his show's sponsors. That might have something to do with it.

Bill Hirt

On 5/13/2020 7:37 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

I see Ken Patterson is gushing over the latest InterMountain offerings, including the less-than-perfect PFE reefers, on his "What's Neat This Week in Model Railroading" Show #115:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&;v=X8YGQwo5jHI

Shows like these remind me why I stopped subscribing to certain car magazines.

Bob Chaparro


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Tim O'Connor
 


I never use Kadee wheels as replacements for wheelsets, but I have decided to keep the 0.088 wheels
that come in the new HGC trucks. I have roll tested them, and they are a HUGE improvement over the old
Kadee metal trucks. For the metal trucks, Reboxx (or similar) wheels are the way to go.

I've also always shined mine up with a Dremel. But I always use a "donor" sideframe to shine them up and
you must be very careful not to let the Kadee wheels "spin" from the Dremel - this will ruin the soft journals
of the Kadee wheels.

Over MANY years of use, Kadee (and other brands of) plastic journals will wear down to the point where
they basically have to be dragged around rather than rolling freely.

All my fat Kadee and Proto wheels end up as replacements for plastic wheels for cars that end up on Ebay.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/14/2020 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Brian Carlson
 

Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Re: 10' High by 8' Wide Superior Doors

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells wrote:
"Didn’t Sunshine make the door for their EJ&E mini kit?  Might want to find one of those and copy it in resin."

It had better be a really good door, as going through the trouble to copy it might not be worth the squeeze if you only need one or two.  The irony of this is if you can handle resin, you should be able to scratchbuild a Superior door.


Ben Hom


Re: 10' High by 8' Wide Superior Doorsbu

O Fenton Wells
 

Didn’t Sunshine make the door for their EJ&E mini kit?  Might want to find one of those and copy it in resin
Fenton 


On May 13, 2020, at 9:53 PM, Rick Jesionowski via groups.io <dti406@...> wrote:


Thanks for all the information, I will probably end up scratchbuilding them as I was going to do the EJ&E cars like one of the respondents noted what he had done.

I have made a number of Superior doors for 60' High Cube Boxcars, should not be any more difficult.

Rick Jesionowski


Re: Hopper Car Photo

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Ben,

When I opened this Westerfield page I noticed the diagonal brace on the models and went elsewhere. Had I scrolled down, I would have seen other examples without the brace. (Oy veh!)

Thanks for the correct ID.

Now the other questions remain for y'all to debate: Whose car is this, and why is at the ACF plant in 1946 (repairs, scrapping, modernizing)? 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:56 AM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Garth Groff asked:
"An acquaintance sent me this attached photo taken at ACF's Berwick plant in 1946. Our shared interest is the unusual AC&F "critter". Your interest is more likely to be the unusual hopper car in the rear: channel ribs and pressed-steel Fox-type trucks. Too bad there is no lettering showing. The car is a survivor (probably not for long though), since the trucks suggest it was built around 1900.

I checked the Westerfield pages, thinking this could be the PSC model they offer, but the car in question has a straight sill, while their model has a dropped sill. Can anybody ID the builder of this car?"

David Thompson replied:
"Car is the early Standard Steel Car channel-side design without a separate end sill."

You also quit looking at the Westerfield pages too soon.  The 7400 series hopper kits model the version of these cars with the heavy end sill.



Ben Hom


Attachments:


Re: Hopper Car Photo

Benjamin Hom
 

Garth Groff asked:
"An acquaintance sent me this attached photo taken at ACF's Berwick plant in 1946. Our shared interest is the unusual AC&F "critter". Your interest is more likely to be the unusual hopper car in the rear: channel ribs and pressed-steel Fox-type trucks. Too bad there is no lettering showing. The car is a survivor (probably not for long though), since the trucks suggest it was built around 1900.

I checked the Westerfield pages, thinking this could be the PSC model they offer, but the car in question has a straight sill, while their model has a dropped sill. Can anybody ID the builder of this car?"

David Thompson replied:
"Car is the early Standard Steel Car channel-side design without a separate end sill."

You also quit looking at the Westerfield pages too soon.  The 7400 series hopper kits model the version of these cars with the heavy end sill.



Ben Hom



Hopper Car Photo

David
 

Car is the early Standard Steel Car channel-side design without a separate end sill.

David Thompson


Hopper Car Photo

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

An acquaintance sent me this attached photo taken at ACF's Berwick plant in 1946. Our shared interest is the unusual AC&F "critter". Your interest is more likely to be the unusual hopper car in the rear: channel ribs and pressed-steel Fox-type trucks. Too bad there is no lettering showing. The car is a survivor (probably not for long though), since the trucks suggest it was built around 1900.

I checked the Westerfield pages, thinking this could be the PSC model they offer, but the car in question has a straight sill, while their model has a dropped sill. Can anybody ID the builder of this car?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Re: REMOVING FACTORY LETTERING

spsalso
 

I have had some experience with Lionel hot stamping their lettering.  I am a proud owner of an AB set of their HO T&P Alco FA's.  I intended to convert them to GN.  I had to turn them into undecs.  I found that they had melted their lettering into the plastic shell a bit, and that I had to do some scraping to try to eliminate it.

I do suspect that the process on plastic is different than on metal.  By decades, if no other.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Todd Sullivan
 

Yup, still coated black.  I decided to try some of Kadee's code 88 wheel sets, but I don't have an operating layout at the moment, so I can't comment on whether or not the wheels still deposit 'stuff' on the rails that interfere with electrical pickup.  BTW, I use a Dremel tool with a wire brush to shiny up the wheel treads.  They look better and may not deposit as much on the rails.  I've been doing that for 20+ years, although I switched to shiny metal wheels on all cars about 15 years ago, so this is an experiment.

Todd Sullivan


Re: NRC / MDT reefers - Plug vs Hinged Doors formerly

twsicrr
 

According to Roger Hindman’s MDT book, NRC 20079 (pictured in Jim King’s post), was one of 200 cars built by Pacific Car and Foundry for MDT and NRC in 1958 (Lot 571, some, perhaps all, leased to IC). Some, perhaps all, of the 1958 PC&F cars had plug doors.

A photo on page 208 in Hindman shows MDT 13550 (one of 1,000 cars built as Lot 561 by PC&F for MDT/NRC from July through November 1956) had hinged doors. Some of those cars were also leased to IC.

Almost all the earlier MDT/NRC refrigerator cars It built at Despatch shops from July 1946 through February 1954 had the more typical hinged doors; however, a chart in Roger Hindman’s MDT book shows that 40 cars, MDT 9935 - 9974 (built by Despatch shops in 1948 as part of Lot 844) had five foot sliding doors. They were apparently leased to NYC.

Tom Sinks
126 Connally St.
Black Mountain, NC 28711
Email: Twsgso@aol.com
Mobile/Text: 336-202-3545


Kadee code 88 wheels.

Brian Carlson
 

I am thinking of trying out some of the above to replace some of the code 110 wheels in my Kadee trucks. Are they the same blackish metal as the code 110 wheels?. The wheel treads are not shiny?

Brian J. Carlson


Re: 10' High by 8' Wide Superior Doorsbu

Rick Jesionowski
 

Thanks for all the information, I will probably end up scratchbuilding them as I was going to do the EJ&E cars like one of the respondents noted what he had done.

I have made a number of Superior doors for 60' High Cube Boxcars, should not be any more difficult.

Rick Jesionowski


Re: Latest run of Intermountain (Wegmann) HO PFE Rebuilt Reefers

Bob Chaparro
 

I see Ken Patterson is gushing over the latest InterMountain offerings, including the less-than-perfect PFE reefers, on his "What's Neat This Week in Model Railroading" Show #115:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=X8YGQwo5jHI

Shows like these remind me why I stopped subscribing to certain car magazines.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: IC-NRC reefer

Tim O'Connor
 


Bruce,

Stan offered many castings that were NOT complete kits - they were just kitbashing parts.
One of the items he offered was the "IC reefer door" intended to be used with the Intermountain
R-40-23/25 body.



On 5/13/2020 6:24 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Gang,

I'm puzzled. The car Jim posted has a door and a half PLUG door. The IM car has regular reefer doors. Indeed, IM did an NRC/IC paint job on this car (40518-11), which is the IM R-40-23. Stan did kits for the IC 50000-50299 and 50300-50499 reefers based on the IM R-40-23 with new resin sides, but I don't thing that these are the car in Jim's post, which is in the NRC 20000 series... or am I missing something?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 3:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] IC-NRC reefer
 

Intermountain 40518-03 is close.  The car has black ends and a silver roof.

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 5/13/2020 3:11 PM, Jim King wrote:

Has this car been produced in HO?  Diamond emblem is green, roof and ends are reddish-brown, body is dull yellow.  I found a pic of a similar car on the Abingdon Branch hauling “seeding potatoes” in LCL, no refrigeration, just being used for insulation.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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