Date   

GN flats

Chad Boas
 

I have posted side and underbody photos of 3 of the GN flats. The 65000 is 52' X 9'3" riveted deep fish belly side sill. The 66000 is a 52' X 10'4" welded straight side sill. The 67000 is a 50' X 8'6" rivited deep fish belly. These are ready for the rubber. I will post the 4th when it is ready. It will be the same as the 65000 but only 43' and 12 pockets. If you have questions or orders, please send to me and not to the list.
Thanks,Chad Boas


Re: Amherst Report?!

Bill Schneider
 

I believe that Saturdays numbers were about 12,000 paid attendees with 23,500 (I think) total paid for both days. All I know is that Saturday was as jammed as usual!

Sunday morning is always the best chance to get time to talk to anyone if you’re just coming up to socialize or chat with manufacturers.

Bill Schneider

From: Larry Sexton
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 9:57 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Amherst Report?!


I can't argue about the numbers, but I do know that all day Saturday all
four buildings were packed to the point access to some tables was restricted
or delayed. Sunday morning was a dream, plenty of open room to access any
exhibit or vendor. Sunday afternoon the buildings started filling up again
but not anywhere near what they were Saturday. By that time I'd bought all
the freightcar photos and models I could bring back on the plane.

I'd really like to know the number of tickets sold to accept the body count,
which I believe was significantly higher on Saturday.

Larry Sexton

From: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:21 AM
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Amherst Report?!

The split was announced as 12K on Saturday, and 11K on Sunday. Both were
slightly over the even number, so the total was 23,000+.

And it's spelled Amherst.

Schuyler

From: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:03 AM
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Amhearst Report?!

From: "Frederick Freitas" <mailto:prrinvt%40yahoo.com <mailto:prrinvt%40yahoo.com>
<mailto:prrinvt%40yahoo.com> >

- S-scale was very well represented at the show. My pick were the PRR
- P70 coaches. If I were not in HO, i would have started with these and
- built a layout around them. Rapido has the new Osggod-Bradley smoker
- cars, and they will be re-running them in the future in case you missed
out
- first time around.

I didn't mention River Raisin brass, because they didn't have any new
freight
cars. But they are doing new SP steam locomotives in brass.

- Best guess was about 35,000 attendees for Saturday according to Amherst
- sources.

Umm, no. That would be wall to wall people. The TWO DAY total was just
over 23,000 -- which is a record. That doesn't count the 3,400 exhibitors.
Saturday was the busiest day, probably 60/40 split in terms of visitor
density.

Tim O'Connor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Gondolas with scrap loads

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:
Scrap gons also went from big city salvage yards to small towns with big steel plants, e.g. Nucor in Norfolk, NE.
But wasn't Nucor a "mini-mll" from the days long after this list?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Amherst Report?!

Larry Sexton
 

I can't argue about the numbers, but I do know that all day Saturday all
four buildings were packed to the point access to some tables was restricted
or delayed. Sunday morning was a dream, plenty of open room to access any
exhibit or vendor. Sunday afternoon the buildings started filling up again
but not anywhere near what they were Saturday. By that time I'd bought all
the freightcar photos and models I could bring back on the plane.



I'd really like to know the number of tickets sold to accept the body count,
which I believe was significantly higher on Saturday.



Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:21 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Amherst Report?!





The split was announced as 12K on Saturday, and 11K on Sunday. Both were
slightly over the even number, so the total was 23,000+.

And it's spelled Amherst.

Schuyler

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
timboconnor@comcast.net <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:03 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Amhearst Report?!

From: "Frederick Freitas" <prrinvt@yahoo.com <mailto:prrinvt%40yahoo.com>
<mailto:prrinvt%40yahoo.com> >

- S-scale was very well represented at the show. My pick were the PRR
- P70 coaches. If I were not in HO, i would have started with these and
- built a layout around them. Rapido has the new Osggod-Bradley smoker
- cars, and they will be re-running them in the future in case you missed
out
- first time around.

I didn't mention River Raisin brass, because they didn't have any new
freight
cars. But they are doing new SP steam locomotives in brass.

- Best guess was about 35,000 attendees for Saturday according to Amherst
- sources.

Umm, no. That would be wall to wall people. The TWO DAY total was just
over 23,000 -- which is a record. That doesn't count the 3,400 exhibitors.
Saturday was the busiest day, probably 60/40 split in terms of visitor
density.

Tim O'Connor



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Re: Gondolas with scrap loads

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Scrap gons also went from big city salvage yards to small towns with big
steel plants, e.g. Nucor in Norfolk, NE.



Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Gates
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:57 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Gondolas with scrap loads





Why would scrap go to a "large city or town"? Steel scrap is really only
used by steel mills. So I would think it would frequently travel a long
distance. Some is even shipped overseas.

Jim Gates

________________________________
From: "cepropst@q.com <mailto:cepropst%40q.com> " <cepropst@q.com
<mailto:cepropst%40q.com> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:50 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gondolas with scrap loads



Depends on the railroad Jim. My railraod didn't own any gons they'd want
used to haul scrap, so they'd 'barrow' other roads cars.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim"
<jimbetz@...> wrote:

Hi,

My instincts tell me that a gondola with a scrap metal load was
not highly likely to be moved long distances. That they were - most
of the time/usually - routed to a local facility that was probably
in a relatively nearby 'large city/town'.
And I'm guessing that they would be more likely to be found on or
near their home road.

Do I have this right?
- Jim




Re: Cable drums as freight car loads

peteraue
 

Guy,

Thanks for you offer to help. I model 1950. I support Tom's idea of posting the diagrams so that everybody has a benefit.
Peter Aue

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Houle" <thoule@...> wrote:

Guy, Will you be posting those flat car loading diagrams? I model the mid-fifties.
Thanks,
Tom Houle

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Wilber
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:08 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cable drums as freight car loads

Peter,

I can assist with loading diagrams, what year are you interested in?

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 2, 2012, at 8:30 AM, "peteraue" <peteraue@...> wrote:

I would like to model large cable drums and use them for loading gons and/or flat cars. I am looking for drawings, photographs or other pieces of information. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Peter Aue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Gondolas with scrap loads (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Guys;

I think everyone who has dug long into the subjects of gons and scrap would
agree they went just about anywhere there were scrap yards, which were all
over the place, and then went to processors and finally steel-making
facilities, which were located all over the country. I have photos of gons
from all over the country, all over the country, carrying scrap, and remember
well the dozens and dozens of roads represented in my back yard, carrying
raw, shredded, and baled scrap. During my (later) 25 years in SoCal, I also
remember the huge piles of scrap from all over the country being processed
for overseas shipment from the Port of LA/LB, and the gons from just about
every road you could imagine.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Gates
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:57 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Gondolas with scrap loads



Why would scrap go to a "large city or town"? Steel scrap is really only used
by steel mills. So I would think it would frequently travel a long distance.
Some is even shipped overseas.

Jim Gates

________________________________
From: "cepropst@q.com <mailto:cepropst%40q.com> " <cepropst@q.com
<mailto:cepropst%40q.com> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:50 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gondolas with scrap loads



Depends on the railroad Jim. My railraod didn't own any gons they'd want
used to haul scrap, so they'd 'barrow' other roads cars.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jim"
<jimbetz@...> wrote:

Hi,

My instincts tell me that a gondola with a scrap metal load was not
highly likely to be moved long distances. That they were - most of
the time/usually - routed to a local facility that was probably in a
relatively nearby 'large city/town'.
And I'm guessing that they would be more likely to be found on or
near their home road.

Do I have this right?
- Jim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Gondolas with scrap loads

Jim Gates
 

Why would scrap go to a "large city or town"? Steel scrap is really only used by steel mills.  So I would think it would frequently travel a long distance.  Some is even shipped overseas.

Jim Gates




________________________________
From: "cepropst@q.com" <cepropst@q.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:50 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gondolas with scrap loads


 
Depends on the railroad Jim. My railraod didn't own any gons they'd want used to haul scrap, so they'd 'barrow' other roads cars.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Hi,

My instincts tell me that a gondola with a scrap metal load was
not highly likely to be moved long distances. That they were - most
of the time/usually - routed to a local facility that was probably
in a relatively nearby 'large city/town'.
And I'm guessing that they would be more likely to be found on or
near their home road.

Do I have this right?
- Jim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Gondolas with scrap loads

Clark Propst
 

Depends on the railroad Jim. My railraod didn't own any gons they'd want used to haul scrap, so they'd 'barrow' other roads cars.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Hi,

My instincts tell me that a gondola with a scrap metal load was
not highly likely to be moved long distances. That they were - most
of the time/usually - routed to a local facility that was probably
in a relatively nearby 'large city/town'.
And I'm guessing that they would be more likely to be found on or
near their home road.

Do I have this right?
- Jim


Gondolas with scrap loads

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

My instincts tell me that a gondola with a scrap metal load was
not highly likely to be moved long distances. That they were - most
of the time/usually - routed to a local facility that was probably
in a relatively nearby 'large city/town'.
And I'm guessing that they would be more likely to be found on or
near their home road.

Do I have this right?
- Jim


Re: Santa Fe caboose window color

Dennis Storzek
 

Thanks, guys. At least Buzz asked, and I was somewhat concerned that he wasn't getting any response on the RYPN board. Looks like he asked other places, too, so he does have good info.

In defense of museum work (but not particularly NRM in Green Bay)the people who do the work are usually not the people who collect and archive the paper, if the museum even has a collection of paper. IRM, where Buzz is doing this project, has an extensive collection of builders materials, but even those are problematic. Typically, the cars in the collection have been modified to a lesser or greater degree over their life, and unless extensive mechanical work is to be done to take the car back to the original, the builder's information isn't much use... what's needed is railroad information from the period to which the car will be restored. With documentation lacking, the next move is to go with the colors that were found when paint was stripped. Buzz says there is dark green visible inside the car at IRM. Very likely the people who did the work on the car in the linked photo found green on the edges of the sash, and so decided the sash should be green. Once done, it takes years before they'll be repainted, even if the museum has been convinced they are in error.

It's much better to get it right the first time.

Dennis


Re: Santa Fe caboose window color

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Hagen wrote:
Builders photos for sure, for sure. Remember, those were advertisements and whatever could be done to enhance them was done. We are talking black and white so whatever colors give the desired contrast is what was used. For steam locos, the photographed side was often painted a flat grey with a fair amount of white striping to make all of the detail visible. After the photos were taken the loco was returned to the paint shop to repaint the photo side to match the normally painted side before shipment.
But remember the builder, whether of locomotives or cars, prepared the photographs the buyer wanted. "Builder gray" is just one such option. Whether overhead or 3/4 views were taken, whether truck and other detail photos were made, was up to the buyer. Ed Kaminski described to me some of the many possibilities for AC&F, and Baldwin documents also contain examples of this. I have copies of SP purchase orders which specify which views, and how many prints as well as how many negatives, were to be supplied.
The builder could also take photos for their own use, of course, but to regard all builder views as "advertising" may be misleading.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Santa Fe caboose window color

John H <sprinthag@...>
 

Builders photos for sure, for sure. Remember, those were advertisements and whatever could be done to enhance them was done. We are talking black and white so whatever colors give the desired contrast is what was used. For steam locos, the photographed side was often painted a flat grey with a fair amount of white striping to make all of the detail visible. After the photos were taken the loco was returned to the paint shop to repaint the photo side to match the normally painted side before shipment.

Museums are another story. The National Railroad Museum in Green Bay has done some God awful things to locos. First they painted an ALCO S-3 as Green Bay & Western S-1 #103. Then they painted an ex-SP S-6 #1201 into CNW #103. CNW never had a S-6. Not satisfied with that they repainted it as GB&W #106. The GB&W did own an S-6, the ex-Sp #1201. But they never painted it for the GB&W nor did they ever have a 106! They leased it to Nekoosa Edwards Paper Co., Nekoosa, WI., and then sold it to the James River Corp, still as #1201 with a fresh, all red paint job. James River donated it to the NRM.

So, painting some window sashes green is well within a museums sphere.

John Hagen

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, tyesac@... wrote:


To which one could add view "builder's portraits" with suspicion as well.

Tom Casey


Re: Santa Fe caboose window color

tyesac@...
 

To which one could add view "builder's portraits" with suspicion as well.

Tom Casey

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 2, 2012 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe caboose window color




On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:40 AM, Andrew Sperandeo wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I responded to Buzz on one of the Santa Fe lists. I don't know of
any documentary or photo evidence for way car window sash being
anything other than Mineral Brown during the service life of those
wood-bodied cars. We all know how dangerous it is to say "never,"
but certainly painting the sash the same Mineral Brown color as the
sides and ends would give the most typical appearance and closest
adherence to the Santa Fe's standards.
For what it's worth, I'll second Andy on this. The photo Buzz cited
shows a caboose on display at a museum, and some museums are more
responsible than others at replicating colors, etc. of the prototype
cars when in revenue service. I'm not aware of any Santa Fe
documentation for painting window sashes any other color than mineral
brown, nor have I seen any photographic evidence to suggest
otherwise. Santa Fe standard practice was to paint everything on
cabooses mineral brown, including underframe and trucks, except that
some cabooses got the roofs painted with the same gritty black that
was used on box cars and reefers to provide secure footing for
trainmen in case they stepped off the running boards.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe caboose window color

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:40 AM, Andrew Sperandeo wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I responded to Buzz on one of the Santa Fe lists. I don't know of
any documentary or photo evidence for way car window sash being
anything other than Mineral Brown during the service life of those
wood-bodied cars. We all know how dangerous it is to say "never,"
but certainly painting the sash the same Mineral Brown color as the
sides and ends would give the most typical appearance and closest
adherence to the Santa Fe's standards.
For what it's worth, I'll second Andy on this. The photo Buzz cited
shows a caboose on display at a museum, and some museums are more
responsible than others at replicating colors, etc. of the prototype
cars when in revenue service. I'm not aware of any Santa Fe
documentation for painting window sashes any other color than mineral
brown, nor have I seen any photographic evidence to suggest
otherwise. Santa Fe standard practice was to paint everything on
cabooses mineral brown, including underframe and trucks, except that
some cabooses got the roofs painted with the same gritty black that
was used on box cars and reefers to provide secure footing for
trainmen in case they stepped off the running boards.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Santa Fe caboose window color

Andy Sperandeo
 

Hi Dennis,

I responded to Buzz on one of the Santa Fe lists. I don't know of any documentary or photo evidence for way car window sash being anything other than Mineral Brown during the service life of those wood-bodied cars. We all know how dangerous it is to say "never," but certainly painting the sash the same Mineral Brown color as the sides and ends would give the most typical appearance and closest adherence to the Santa Fe's standards.

So long,

Andy


Re: Cable drums as freight car loads

Tom Houle <thoule@...>
 

Guy, Will you be posting those flat car loading diagrams? I model the mid-fifties.
Thanks,
Tom Houle

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Wilber
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:08 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cable drums as freight car loads

Peter,

I can assist with loading diagrams, what year are you interested in?

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada
On Feb 2, 2012, at 8:30 AM, "peteraue" <peteraue@yahoo.de> wrote:

I would like to model large cable drums and use them for loading gons and/or flat cars. I am looking for drawings, photographs or other pieces of information. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Peter Aue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: American Railway Association's role Re: Open-top cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Kresse wrote:
Tony,
That is interesting from the railroads perspective. However, it appears that the ARA Car Service Divsion was able to impose on the railroads to divert all resources to a specific shortage. Does that mean there should be a letter somewhere declaring a home heating coal shortage in say the New England and NYC/Phily area and directing X, Y and Z railroads to put all applicable open-top cars into that service for a certain period of time?
Yes. Unfortunately the AAR has now discarded all those old records. As late as 1995 the bulk of them were still at the AAR headquarters in Washington. You can understand the downsizing of the AAR as the number of railroads shrinks and shrinks, but it is a shame they did not choose a repository and donate those papers.
Individual railroads of course did archive those messages too, so it's always possible troves of such documents may surface in various collections of railroad paper around the country, especially records from smaller depots which had commodious attics <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: American Railway Association's role Re: Open-top cars

water.kresse@...
 

Tony,



That is interesting from the railroads perspective.  However, it appears that the ARA Car Service Divsion was able to impose on the railroads to divert all resources to a specific shortage.  Does that mean there should be a letter somewhere declaring a home heating coal shortage in say the New England and NYC/Phily area and directing X, Y and Z railroads to put all applicable open-top cars into that service for a certain period of time?



They are Great posting!



One of my Mom's former church members and regular bridge players at the retirement center (Mom is 95 and Harold was 102) was a Car Accountant home-based out of the N&W in Wheaton, Illinois.  Her use to mediate disputes in billings between the railroads and the customers and make sure the railroads records were straight.  He said he was hated by the railroad agents . . . especially those whose records weren't kept up that well.  He got into that work right after WW2 I believe.  His in-laws wanted him to say in town enough so they could have grandkids.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----


From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 12:59:49 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] American Railway Association's role Re: Open-top cars

Al Kresse wrote:
  So you are saying that the ARA Car Service Division had ICC  
backing for enforcement of empty car routings directly back to the  
coal mines?
      Al, this is all discussed and (I hope) clarified on the blog  
post I cited earlier. If you missed it, here it is again:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2012/01/car-service-rules-2.html

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: North and South Railroad?

arved_grass
 

Suspicion confirmed. Just making sure.

Thanks to all who replied!

Warmest regrads,

Arved G. Grass
Fleming Island, Florida

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, richtownsend@... wrote:

That probably is an AAR publicity or educational shot. They relettered the cars in the photo (i.e., retouched them, in the pre-photoshop days of yore) to avoid giving any particular railroad publicity or blame. There was no N&S. You see them with lettering for other fictional RRs as well.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon



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