Date   

Re: SRDX 410

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Bruce and group,

Thank you for your comments and recommendations.

I have a few P2K tank car kits on the shelf so there is a starting point on hand.

And yes, the lettering is from a period in the future. I wonder how this tank car would have been lettered in 1953?

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On May 18, 2011, at 8:21 AM, @smithbf wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., William Keene <wakeene@...> wrote:

Hello Group,

I see that the photos have been approved and are available for reviewing.

Any assistance and suggestions on modeling this tank car will be greatly appreciated.
Bill,

The car appears to be a 10,000 gallon AC&F type 11 tank car. The spotting features are the flat stub end sills (with the channel facing in... later AC&F cars have the channel facing out) and the single rows of circumferential rivets on the tank. If the rivets were in double rows, then it would be an AC&F type 17 car. There are currently no mass produced models of this car, however it seems to be a relatively straightforward kitbash. I would use a P2K 10K tank and remove the top longitudinal course seams and rivets leaving the bottom course. Replace the upper courses with bare metal foil circumferential courses and add a single row of Archer rivets. Use the F&C "TM8", aka "type 2" tank car frame. The biggest stumbling block might be the dome, but it appears that the P2K dome might work with mods such as the hatch and safety valves.

Lettering looks to be after the period of this group.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: COINCIDENCES (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Steve;

Your guests are sharper than mine. I had a guest who I had to repeatedly
tell his car was on fire. He kept talking to one of the other guests...

I was also asked to host a guest that one regular did NOT like. The regular
asked me to add a chalkmark he had done a decal for, that directly insulted
said guest, by name, which I then applied to one of my gondolas, and then ran
during the session in full view. No, he talked so much he never caught it,
although most regulars were in stitches.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
stvvallee
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:57 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] COINCIDENCES




Dear Group...

While looking through the May, 1944 issue of Railroad Magazine, I spotted
this item on page 125:

...."Coincidences such as two boxcars with identical numbers on the same
train are more tare than four-leaf clovers, but this one actually happened
last November 17th with cars of the Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha
and the Northwestern Pacific both numbered 15643 on a train of the Milwaukee
Road. Dean E. Ickens of Malden,Wash., was a brakeman in the crew; Edgar Dubel
was conductor.

"When we left Othello, Wash., on that date, running east as Extra 59," Dean
explains, "we had 76 CMStPM&O boxcars and we picked up the NWP car at
Marengo, Wash. Another oddity on this train was an Omaha Line boxcar numbered
22222---five digits all the same!"....

I'm sure if any of the Group tried this on their layouts, the laughter would
be endless from their guests.

Steve Vallee





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


COINCIDENCES

Steve Vallee
 

Dear Group...

While looking through the May, 1944 issue of Railroad Magazine, I spotted this item on page 125:


...."Coincidences such as two boxcars with identical numbers on the same train are more tare than four-leaf clovers, but this one actually happened last November 17th with cars of the Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha and the Northwestern Pacific both numbered 15643 on a train of the Milwaukee Road. Dean E. Ickens of Malden,Wash., was a brakeman in the crew; Edgar Dubel was conductor.

"When we left Othello, Wash., on that date, running east as Extra 59," Dean explains, "we had 76 CMStPM&O boxcars and we picked up the NWP car at Marengo, Wash. Another oddity on this train was an Omaha Line boxcar numbered 22222---five digits all the same!"....


I'm sure if any of the Group tried this on their layouts, the laughter would be endless from their guests.

Steve Vallee


Re: Underrepresented roads and car types

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tony Wagner wrote:
Re PRR box cars never going "home": My memory may be faulty but I seem to recall reading long ago, probably in "Trains", that in the aftermath of the PC merger someone in the car service department found records of an X29 that had been built in the 1920s, loaded offline soon afterward, and had subsequently been repaired and even repainted on other railroads, then ultimately retired without ever having come back to the Pennsy. Don't know if it is true, but having worked for a railroad for many years before incentive per diem rules changed things, it certainly seems plausible.
Sounds like an urban legend, but would be nice to see documentation if it's true.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)

anthony wagner
 

Re PRR box cars never going "home": My memory may be faulty but I seem to recall
reading long ago, probably in "Trains", that in the aftermath of the PC merger
someone in the car service department found records of an X29 that had been
built in the 1920s, loaded offline soon afterward, and had subsequently been
repaired and even repainted on other railroads, then ultimately retired without
ever having come back to the Pennsy. Don't know if it is true, but having worked
for a railroad for many years before incentive per diem rules changed things, it
certainly seems plausible. Tony Wagner





________________________________
From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 6:35:05 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gene;

You're not insulting the PRR by stating that a lot of PRR cars on the MStL
ended up with hot boxes.

There were just a lot of PRR cars in most locations in the country. PRR had
a lot of its box cars get picked up by Midwestern roads for use in grain
service, in your time. Lots of general service box cars rarely came home to
PRR rails, and correspondence indicates the PRR was concerned about not ever
seeing these cars.

I think some of it was that some cars series were intended for rebuilding,
but they could only grab up what ended up back on PRR rails; it was not like
they didn't appreciate the payments, right?

So, if you had a lot of old PRR gen service box cars on the MStL, it is
probable a good number could end up getting sent to the shop with a hot box.

Your statistics were fun to look at,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 9:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Underrepresented roads and car types

OK, Bruce Smith in message 100189 and Tony Thompson in message 100192 have
set me straight.

In my own case, using the Landmesser hot box list may lead me astray. To be
on the list, which was created in 1948, 1949 and 1950, a car had to be set
out or delay a train for some reason such as a hot box.

This list provides evidence that a specific car was on the M&StL and usually
also gives train # and load. That latter piece of info is interesting, useful
and, in many cases, something I couldn't have thought of for myself.

The question is, were these hot box cars evenly distributed throughout all
the car types and railroads that had cars on the M&StL? For example, of a
total of 1331 entries there are 39 NYC cars and 68 PRR cars. Does that mean
nearly twice as many PRR cars as NYC cars on the M&StL or were PRR cars more
prone to hot boxes? (No insult of PRR intended.) Is one car type more prone
to hot boxes than another?

In line with what has been said in other posts more than half were box cars.

74 flat cars (26 of which are M&StL)
112 gondolas (18 are M&StL)
53 hopper cars (36 are M&StL)
8 covered hoppers (all M&StL)
130 refrigerator cars (none M&StL)
12 stock cars (10 M&StL)
97 tank cars (none M&StL)
5 ventilated box cars (none M&StL)
750 box cars (88 M&StL)
85 unknown types (none M&StL)

This won't quite add up to 1331 because cabooses with hot boxes were not
included above.

In the case of covered hoppers and stock cars, I know just what I should do.
Beyond that ? ? ?

Or is all this academic? After all, short of scratch building one can only
have the models that exist whether RTR or kit.

Gene Green

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SRDX 410

Bruce Smith
 

--- In STMFC@..., William Keene <wakeene@...> wrote:

Hello Group,

I see that the photos have been approved and are available for reviewing.

Any assistance and suggestions on modeling this tank car will be greatly appreciated.
Bill,

The car appears to be a 10,000 gallon AC&F type 11 tank car. The spotting features are the flat stub end sills (with the channel facing in... later AC&F cars have the channel facing out) and the single rows of circumferential rivets on the tank. If the rivets were in double rows, then it would be an AC&F type 17 car. There are currently no mass produced models of this car, however it seems to be a relatively straightforward kitbash. I would use a P2K 10K tank and remove the top longitudinal course seams and rivets leaving the bottom course. Replace the upper courses with bare metal foil circumferential courses and add a single row of Archer rivets. Use the F&C "TM8", aka "type 2" tank car frame. The biggest stumbling block might be the dome, but it appears that the P2K dome might work with mods such as the hatch and safety valves.

Lettering looks to be after the period of this group.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: NMRA Conventions

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 18 May 2011 09:58:26 -0500, Douglas Harding wrote

Doug Auburg's mention of the Cincinnati National reminds me of the time I
entered a clinic room at that convention to find someone downloading copies
of clinics to a flashdrive. He didn't have permission, was simply taking
advantage of an unattended computer. I believe that was one of the first
years the NMRA asked for digital clinics in advance to preload on laptops.
Interesting point. In the past I have given copies of my clinic presentation to people
who requested them - and had the flash drive in hand to do it right there. Since these
clinics do often contain photos that aren't mine, I probably shouldn't do that (although
99% of the photos that are not mine are readily available on line).

As to pre-loading, that would be difficult since normally I finish my clinic no sooner
than 3 am the night before I'm due to present. When the clinic is a rerun, things are a
bit different but I can and do make changes.

I never really dreamed that hobby clinics would be worth stealing to anyone, but there
are people who will try to make money off of just about anything.

Andy


Re: NMRA Conventions

Douglas Harding
 

Just recently I had someone ask if they could have a copy of the PowerPoint
clinic I was giving so they could show it at their upcoming convention. I
wasn't invited to come be the presenter, so I can only assume the intent was
someone else would show the clinic with minimal commentary, or more likely
incorrect commentary. I said no.



I have had to explain numerous times through the years that, like Tony
indicated, some of the photos I use I do so only with permission for
showing, not for distribution or sale. Other photos I use came with very
expensive price tags, you know the libraries, and I am not about to give
them away. I am more than willing to share my research and materials, via
clinics at conventions, articles, etc. but my commentary and conclusions,
based upon that research, is my property. It is for these reasons I will not
allow video taping. And this does not even cover the commercial enterprise
where someone records a convention clinic then offers tapes or DVD's for
sale for a profit on the commercial market.



Doug Auburg's mention of the Cincinnati National reminds me of the time I
entered a clinic room at that convention to find someone downloading copies
of clinics to a flashdrive. He didn't have permission, was simply taking
advantage of an unattended computer. I believe that was one of the first
years the NMRA asked for digital clinics in advance to preload on laptops. I
recall having a discussion with Doug and/or his staff at that time about
security. I have not presented at a National since so don't know it this
issue has been resolved.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949

Armand Premo
 

Bruce,Most of the top twenty roads have been fairly well represented, albeit with many gaps or voids.Some of the lesser roads come to mind (not all inclusive) DRGW,RF&P,B&A, PE, ONT,DWP,EJ&E, TH&B ,KCS ,TC for starters.There are other larger roads that I feel have been slighted.My list is not just restricted to box cars. Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949



On May 18, 2011, at 5:49 AM, Armand Premo wrote:

> Now that all the falderal has about ended, my original question
> remains only partially answered.The question was about Roads and
> NOT cars.The point that I intended to raise was that some roads
> have been neglected.It had nothing to do with G-N or any other
> theory.Simply put, some ROADS have completely been ignored.

Armand,

What roads do you feel have been ignored? Of the top 20, all have
numerous models, although there remain notable gaps with specific car
types - but since you want to restrict this conversation to roads, we
won't mention them again ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0








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Re: NMRA convention (was Re: Consumer-grade 3D printers hit the mainstream) (UNCLASSIFIED)

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Large venues are a necessity to acommodate both the attendees and the train show - usually a major hotel is attached to the convention center. Most of these venues are in large cities where unions have a vise grip on the convention hall. The NMRA usually pays the union members to sit on their asses so they won't impede the vendors from moving in and out. However, they cannot pay for special requests such as union labor for set ups, electrical or phone lines. Video taping is another claimed union specialty. You shouldn't be surprised that they reserve it for themselves or require special payment to do it on your own.
- Al Westerfield


Re: NMRA convention

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 18 May 2011 08:24:20 -0500, Andy Sperandeo wrote
I agree with Jack Burgess's point about keeping clinic presentations under the
presenter's control. And I'll raise an additional objection of my own. On
occasions when I've relented and allowed myself to be taped, I've generally
been disappointed in the quality of the resulting videos. I'd prefer not being
in any videos to having a clinic I've invested effort and resources in
creating shown in a bad video.
The same is true of magazine articles. I had one editor pounding on me for an article
about some models that I built 10 years earlier (at the time). The models were
"interesting" but not particularly good, nor were they all that accurate. I offered to
rebuild some of them and do an article on that process, which I thought would be a lot
more useful, but he said I can't wait 10 more years or something like that. He said can
I just photograph the models, or send them to him to photograph, and he'd write the
article. I once again said no, I'm not going to have my name on an article I didn't
write, especially when the models are not up to my standards. That's where it ended. I
wonder how many times this has been done though - where an article is published and
between the poor quality of the photos, the prose, or the model itself, one forms an
opinion of the skills of the "author" when in fact, it's not necessarily his fault?

I'm presently involved in a project which, if it goes into production in its current
state, I would prefer my name never be connected with it. Perhaps even if it turns out
to be a real winner, my name should still not be connected to it. My role is that of
looking at drawings and saying "warmer.. warmer... nope... COLD!" which is something
anyone with access to prototype photos and a pair of eyeballs could do. I haven't
figured out if they just aren't taking the project seriously, or if it's so far down the
communication / language barrier chain that my comments just aren't getting through.
Suffice it to say, when this product arrives in the hobby shop I might just be Sgt. Schutlz.

Andy


Re: NMRA convention

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I agree with Jack Burgess's point about keeping clinic presentations under the presenter's control. And I'll raise an additional objection of my own. On occasions when I've relented and allowed myself to be taped, I've generally been disappointed in the quality of the resulting videos. I'd prefer not being in any videos to having a clinic I've invested effort and resources in creating shown in a bad video.

(I'm not doing a freight car talk in Sacramento, but if you're interested in the "steam" aspect of this group, you may want to see my show on "Understanding Steam Details," about locomotive piping and appliances.)

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949

Bruce Smith
 

On May 18, 2011, at 5:49 AM, Armand Premo wrote:

Now that all the falderal has about ended, my original question
remains only partially answered.The question was about Roads and
NOT cars.The point that I intended to raise was that some roads
have been neglected.It had nothing to do with G-N or any other
theory.Simply put, some ROADS have completely been ignored.
Armand,

What roads do you feel have been ignored? Of the top 20, all have
numerous models, although there remain notable gaps with specific car
types - but since you want to restrict this conversation to roads, we
won't mention them again ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: NMRA convention (was Re: Consumer-grade 3D printers hit the mainstream) (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

The problem with those technologies is that many people loan us images of the
prototype, for presentations, but for which they retain the rights. The
presentations are for educational purposes, otherwise they would not loan
them (i.e., "not for profit").

When people post images to big sites, they lose the image to the etherworld.


Here's an example: I gave a presentation on PRR's foray into the coil car
arena, for which many people loaned me images. One guy kept setting up a
tripod, and I then had to remind everyone that they could not record it, on
any media. He was obviously miffed, so I explained it.

I then noticed that when the room went dark, he attempted to do it again, and
was asked to leave. I was told later that this guy sells DVDs of
presentations on ebay.

Sounds like a good little small business operation, but he was making money
on images that other people own and could have also done so with.

We cannot risk enraging the people that support us through their generous
loan of their images, or we lose access to those images.

It's one thing when presentations focus entirely on models or contain images
owned by the presenter, but you have to watch it with proprietary imagery.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Denis
Blake
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 9:18 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NMRA convention (was Re: Consumer-grade 3D printers
hit the mainstream)



Darn Tim, I thought I was doing good to buy a digital projector for the
Marion Meet this year. Now you are wanting folks to tape the clinics and the
like and post them on YouTube!!!

Denis Blake
North Hamlet Shops, Ohio

2011 Central Ohio Prototype Modelers Meet, May 19-21

http://www.hansmanns.org/meet/

http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Central-Ohio-Prototype-Modelers
-Meet/326645470797
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 6:21 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NMRA convention (was Re: Consumer-grade 3D printers hit
the mainstream)

Ya know... almost any smart phone can now take HD video & audio good enough
to post to Youtube. It would be great if the NMRA or just anyone would simply
"tape" each clinic and post it to Youtube. I'd LOVE to be able to travel to
Sacramento and attend the meet, but I can't. I'd be happy to make a small
donation to a fund that supported such an effort.

Same comment applies to RPM meets like Naperville, Cocoa Beach, etc. We (as a
whole) are slow to adopt these wonderful web-based sharing services.

Tim O'Connor

For those of us with a keen interest in the subject but are unable to
attend the convention, is there a way we can plug into the information
presented, maybe in summary form? Is there a Web site that might
present such information post-convention? Just hoping. . . .
Thanks much,
Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa
------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gene;

You're not insulting the PRR by stating that a lot of PRR cars on the MStL
ended up with hot boxes.

There were just a lot of PRR cars in most locations in the country. PRR had
a lot of its box cars get picked up by Midwestern roads for use in grain
service, in your time. Lots of general service box cars rarely came home to
PRR rails, and correspondence indicates the PRR was concerned about not ever
seeing these cars.

I think some of it was that some cars series were intended for rebuilding,
but they could only grab up what ended up back on PRR rails; it was not like
they didn't appreciate the payments, right?

So, if you had a lot of old PRR gen service box cars on the MStL, it is
probable a good number could end up getting sent to the shop with a hot box.

Your statistics were fun to look at,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 9:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Underrepresented roads and car types



OK, Bruce Smith in message 100189 and Tony Thompson in message 100192 have
set me straight.

In my own case, using the Landmesser hot box list may lead me astray. To be
on the list, which was created in 1948, 1949 and 1950, a car had to be set
out or delay a train for some reason such as a hot box.

This list provides evidence that a specific car was on the M&StL and usually
also gives train # and load. That latter piece of info is interesting, useful
and, in many cases, something I couldn't have thought of for myself.

The question is, were these hot box cars evenly distributed throughout all
the car types and railroads that had cars on the M&StL? For example, of a
total of 1331 entries there are 39 NYC cars and 68 PRR cars. Does that mean
nearly twice as many PRR cars as NYC cars on the M&StL or were PRR cars more
prone to hot boxes? (No insult of PRR intended.) Is one car type more prone
to hot boxes than another?

In line with what has been said in other posts more than half were box cars.

74 flat cars (26 of which are M&StL)
112 gondolas (18 are M&StL)
53 hopper cars (36 are M&StL)
8 covered hoppers (all M&StL)
130 refrigerator cars (none M&StL)
12 stock cars (10 M&StL)
97 tank cars (none M&StL)
5 ventilated box cars (none M&StL)
750 box cars (88 M&StL)
85 unknown types (none M&StL)

This won't quite add up to 1331 because cabooses with hot boxes were not
included above.

In the case of covered hoppers and stock cars, I know just what I should do.
Beyond that ? ? ?

Or is all this academic? After all, short of scratch building one can only
have the models that exist whether RTR or kit.

Gene Green





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Great Northern boxcar (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

THAT is one cool box car. Thanks for those details, Steve! What service did
GN intend these to be in? Were the sides welded? Were there any special
features?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Steve
Haas
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Great Northern boxcar



<<This photo shows a NYC FA but in the background a GN 50' boxcar that
appears to be an early underframe with new sides. Anyone have an idea?

Mark Morgan

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205357&nseq=134>>

Mark,

From Scott R. Thompson's "Great Northern Color Pictorial - Vol 1", page 90:

Series 40100 to 40299 - rebuilt from outside braced box cars in 1954 -
original series - 29000 to 29899 - built 1925.

Outside steel sheathing, Pullman ends and roof, upgrade brake equipment.
Two 7' wide Camel doors, Universal handbrake, friction bearing trucks.

IL = 50' 6"
IW = 9' 2"
IH = 10' 6"
4862 cubic capacity
110,000 load capacity.

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949

Armand Premo
 

Now that all the falderal has about ended, my original question remains only partially answered.The question was about Roads and NOT cars.The point that I intended to raise was that some roads have been neglected.It had nothing to do with G-N or any other theory.Simply put, some ROADS have completely been ignored.Maybe my question was poorly worded or misinterpreted ,but what I thought would result was not a rehash of freight car distribution and all the caveats(.Don't confuse me with facts my mind is already made up) Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949



Dave Evans wrote:
> Lets see, Greenland was once farmland - but I guess we did
> something to turn it into a block of ice - and even now we haven't
> melted it... It all depends on the era you select to analyze the
> very limited data - just like freight car distribution.... sigh.

Well, indeed, let's see. A few seaside valleys in south
coastal Greenland were farmland, for about a century, while the entire
interior was the same block of ice it is today (we know because we've
drilled all the way through it). Even today, those valleys are green
in summer, but too cool to farm--at least European-style farming which
the Vikings insisted on trying. The temperature shift involved was
small. And luckily, even though the glaciers there are retreating now,
so far we haven't raised sea level much.
But this doesn't have a great deal to do with freight cars,
nor did my swipe at Armand. Apologies to all for that.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: NMRA convention

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Reminds me of an NMRA/NFR regional years ago where everyone seemed to be attending John Armstrong's clinic. It was nice having the better part of an hour to talk uninterrupted with Wayne Wesoloswki about model-building techniques. I may have learnt 1/10,000th of what he knows from that meeting...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 12:01 AM 5/18/2011 +0000, you wrote:
Would posting clinics on the web become a reason NOT to attend a
convention because the clinic part would later be available for free or
little cost?
Wouldn't make any difference to me. I've been to 9 NMRA conventions, and
in that time, probably less than 9 clinics. I don't really go to shows -
or RPM meets - for the clinics, strange as it may seem. I usually have to
be reminded to go to my own clinic, otherwise I'd still be shooting the
bull in the model room.

Andy


Re: Rivets

Aley, Jeff A
 

Matt,

URL's do not have to be approved by the STMFC Moderators. On the other hand, if you were to upload the images directly to STMFC, they would have to be approved.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Deputy Moderator, STMFC


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 7:20 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rivets



Jack Burgess wrote:

I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way compare to the Archer rivets. They might look okay initially but you might very well be disappointed after painting. If you feel they will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and then painting them...it would be frustrating to use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.
Group,

Jack is TOTALLY spot-on here.

There has been some recent discussion about the new MicroMark rivets, and their very reasonable pricing.

I do a lot of scratch and custom building for myself and others, and thought I'd lend my 2cents, based on personal observations.

What MM is putting out looks great on the sheet to the naked eye, but if you look more closely, you might just be dismayed. After application to the model and once painted (as Jack mentioned), the issues with the product will be come obvious.

The black areas on the sheet appear to be crisp and well defined, the result of a simple printing of black ink. However, the thing that gives a product like this depth and dimension is the clear placed on top, and therein lies the problem.

There is no precision application of the clear top-coat on top of the printed image, just random puddles that are clearly visible on their tread plate and can also be seen on the rivets.

I have made a close up scan of the product, that I have posted on my website. I did not include the link in the post, as I would then have to wait for approval. If you wish to see the MM product up close, please contact me directly, mforsyth127 at yahoo dot com, and I will provide you with the URL.

Tougher to see in the scan is that their louvers are only partially covered by random puddles of clear, resulting in just randomly shaped, raised areas.

As I said, looks great on the sheet, and with the black base color printed below, your eyes will be tricked into thinking that the details are sharp, but once a colored top coat is applied, and the black printed base disappears, what you'll then see are just poorly defined random blobs and puddles.

Given what I have observed, I think I'll be sticking with Archer.

Just an FYI...

Thanks,

Matt Forsyth
Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
in Proto 5-0, late summer of 1950


Re: NMRA Conventions

Doug Auburg
 

I’d like to chip in with a couple comments, based upon my experience as Chair of the NMRA Convention Clinics program for the past 6 years (Cincinnati through Milwaukee) – now retired from that post.



1. Regarding attendee video recording of clinics. We have prominently posted in the convention programs that video recording of clinics is to be done only with the express permission of the clinician. I am not aware of any attendee visibly violating that policy, though it is certainly possible that someone used a cell phone to do so in a secretive manner. We in the Clinic Office advised clinicians of this policy whenever the opportunity presented itself.



2. Gerry Leone and I have video recorded a wide variety of clinics in those years for use by the Kalmbach Memorial Library. For those of us who have been in the NMRA for a long time, these clinics are the modern equivalent of what was the “NMRA Tape-Slide Clinic Program” of the 50’s and onward. Gerry took the raw material and added titles, credits for the clinician and photographer as well as labels and provided them to the Library. Brent Lambert, the KML Librarian, has placed several ads in the “Scale Rails” and now the “NMRA.org Magazine” telling members that they can check these clinics out for personal or Division use for the cost of return postage. We obtained written permission from each and every clinician that we recorded before doing so after we explained exactly what we proposed to do and why. If the clinician was not interested in participating in this sharing of his/her clinic with the membership, no recording was done.



3. As for Richard Hendrickson’s comment about a club posting his handout w/o permission or appropriate attribution. That would have no connection with the NMRA or its clinic program administration. Rather some attendee must have gotten an handout and posted it. If this had happened to me, I would contact the club and ask that they take down my copyrighted material or, if I didn’t mind its posting, ask them to properly attribute it to me as its author. I suspect that when faced with such requests, the vast majority would do as requested.



Doug Auburg









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