Date   

Re: Great Northern boxcar

Rich C
 

Here is one in Glacier Green
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gn/gn40259ajs.jpg

Rich Christie

--- On Wed, 5/18/11, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Great Northern boxcar
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, May 18, 2011, 2:08 PM


 




I am certain this subject has come up before, but I can't locate the
emails. GN rebuilt 50' single sheathed, single and double door auto cars
with steel sides in the 1950's. The single door cars can be modeled
with the Westerfield kits which have the fishbelly underframe and ends
needed for the project. It looks like this double door car got new ends
as well as a new roof.

I have a photo of one of the cars, Richard Hendrickson's model of
GN 39345, which is a single sheathed car painted in the Empire Builder
scheme.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------------

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205357&nseq=134

From Scott R. Thompson's "Great Northern Color Pictorial - Vol 1", page 90:
Series 40100 to 40299 - rebuilt from outside braced box cars in 1954 -
original series - 29000 to 29899 - built 1925.
Outside steel sheathing, Pullman ends and roof, upgrade brake equipment.
Two 7' wide Camel doors, Universal handbrake, friction bearing trucks.
IL = 50' 6"
IW = 9' 2"
IH = 10' 6"
4862 cubic capacity
110,000 load capacity.
Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949

Armand Premo
 

Just like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall <S>,.A Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:31 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949



Armand Premo wrote:
> Tony,Then does that mean I should disregard all the other evidence
> that I have ,or have seen? :- )

You can (and we know, you will) treat the evidence any way you
wish. It's when you generalize about it that I get concerned <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Re: NMRA Conventions

Andy Harman
 

Speaking of shows, it just dawned on me that the Naperville (now Lisle) meet is
currently scheduled for the same weekend as the Rosemont iHobby Expo (or whatever it's
now called). First time in 10(?) years? I will probably go to Rosemont Sunday, unless
somehow I can rep for somebody and get in on Thursday. Has been a while, I think 03 was
the last time I went to the Rosemont show.

Andy


Overland O Scale PRR F39 TOFC Flatcar for sale

Bill Lane
 

All,



I have decided to sell my Overland O Scale PRR F39 TOFC Flatcar
http://www.lanestrains.com/O_Scale_F39.jpg The car and jack stands have a
pristine glossy coat of Scalecoat PRR Freight car red on it. I bought some
Champ decals that were supposed to be for the F39. After some closer
inspection this morning against some builders photos, the decals are pretty
wrong so I decided to not decal the car. Nonetheless there are 3 sets
included in the sale of the car. The car is otherwise minty and never run. 2
Kadee coupler boxes are included and are painted with the car. Couplers are
not included.



If you are so inclined and **really** want the Champ decals put on the car
it can be done.



Please reply directly to bill@... with your questions or offer.
Bargain hunters need not reply. I paid a premium price for the car
unpainted. I don't have to sell it but have decided that I will never use
it.







Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988

See my finished models at:
<http://www.lanestrains.com/> http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

Custom Train Parts Design
<http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm>
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
<http://www.prrths.com/> http://www.prrths.com
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! <http://www.prslhs.com/> http://www.prslhs.com
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL


New England/Northeast Tentative Clinic Schedule Posted

Dave Owens
 

The tentative schedule and list of clinics for the New
England/Northeast  Prototype Modelers Meet has been posted to our
website, www.neprototypemeet.com.

This year’s meet is our 9th and we hope you’ll consider joining us in
Collinsville, Connecticut, Friday and Saturday, June 4 and 5 for
clinics, programs, a model display and a gathering of a great group of
like-minded modelers. On Sunday June 6 we’ll have layout open houses.

We’ll be joined by several great manufacturers and vendors, including
Bob’s Photo, Speedwitch Media, Funaro & Carmerlengo, Sheepscot Scale
Models, Rapido, Short Line Hobbies, Stella Scale Models, Reboxx, the
Hobby Gallery, Railroad Hobby and Model Supply, Dave’s Trains, New
England Brownstone, the Outer Station Project, Motrak Models, the New
Haven Railroad Technical And Historical Association,  and the Penn
Central Railroad Historical Society.

The meet will also feature a staffed white elephant table where you
can drop off your items for sale. If they sell, our staff will collect
and hold the money for you. There is no charge to sell anything,
although donations are welcomed.

We’ll also conduct our fundraising door prize drawing of items donated
by a host of great manufacturers and vendors.

Looking forward, we’ll be celebrating a milestone at the 2012 meet.
Next year will be our 10th anniversary meet. (Yeah, we’re kind of
stunned about it too.) Anyway, we’re planning some special events for
the June 1-2, 2012 meet, and for the first time we’ll offer a special
incentive at this year’s meet to those who choose to register early
for 2012. Look for details at the meet. Here’s a hint: It involves the
Amherst Society’s Big Railroad Hobby Show in West Springfield, Mass.

For more information about the meet, please check our website or
contact me at neprotomeet@... or 860-233-0303.

Thanks,
Dave Owens
Meet Coordinator


Re: NMRA Conventions

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 18 May 2011 12:37:25 -0700, Anthony Thompson wrote
Al, I personally agree with you, and as you know, I often
volunteer for talks and only rarely receive any kind of compensation.
I too have plenty of those "thank you" certificates. That doesn't mean
that ALL clinicians at all meeting should get stiffed. I've always
believed in helping those who need help.
It certainly makes sense to compensate travel expenses for a desirable clinician who
couldn't otherwise afford the trip, but these days travel expenses can be rather hefty
and just one round trip plane ticket could wipe out the entire budget for a small meet.

The NMRA convention is a bit different but not that much different. There isn't a lot
of extra capital there to spread around. Clinicians - and the attendees - will vote
with their feet. After 2005, I have not been to an NMRA national convention. I haven't
ruled it out, but certain things in life have changed. I don't have unlimited vacation
time, and there are enough RPM meets out there to keep me involved year round. Paying
full fare, air fare, and a week at a moderate to expensive hotel just to do two days of
RPM just doesn't have the appeal it once did. Not that the NMRA gig has changed all
that much since my first in 95; just that there are now quite a few alternatives that
offer up 90% relevant content for me at a fraction of the cost, as opposed to an
expensive week-long event that is 10-15% relevant content.

Andy


Re: SRDX 410

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Richard and Group,

Thank you for the additional information and suggestions. The reason driving the need for such a car is that I have a D-X Distributor planned for my layout at Gridley. This based upon information from the Coffee County (KS) Historical Society. A couple of cars of the correct design and lettering would be a good addition to the fleet. An 8K car would be OK also.

Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On May 18, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On May 18, 2011, at 8:21 AM, @smithbf wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., William Keene <wakeene@...> wrote:

Hello Group,

I see that the photos have been approved and are available for
reviewing.

Any assistance and suggestions on modeling this tank car will be
greatly appreciated.
Bill,

The car appears to be a 10,000 gallon AC&F type 11 tank car. The
spotting features are the flat stub end sills (with the channel
facing in... later AC&F cars have the channel facing out) and the
single rows of circumferential rivets on the tank. If the rivets
were in double rows, then it would be an AC&F type 17 car. There
are currently no mass produced models of this car, however it seems
to be a relatively straightforward kitbash. I would use a P2K 10K
tank and remove the top longitudinal course seams and rivets
leaving the bottom course. Replace the upper courses with bare
metal foil circumferential courses and add a single row of Archer
rivets. Use the F&C "TM8", aka "type 2" tank car frame. The
biggest stumbling block might be the dome, but it appears that the
P2K dome might work with mods such as the hatch and safety valves.
Bruce is correct in identifying the car as a10K gal. AC&F Type 11.
Large numbers of both 8K and 10K Type 11s were built in the 'teens
for the Cosden Petroleum Co. of Tulsa and operated under COSX
reporting marks. In 1925 the Cosden holdings were restructured as
the Mid-Continent Petroleum Co., though the tank cars continued to
operate under COSX reporting marks. In the 1920s Mid-Continent
marketed its gasoline and other products under the name Diamond, and
a wholesale and retail marketing effort resulted in a large chain of
Diamond service stations in the central U.S. from Texas to the
Canadian border. In 1933 the gasoline was rebranded as D-X, and by
World War II the Diamond stations had become D-X service stations.
In addition to carrying its own products, the Mid-Continent tank car
fleet included a sizable number of cars under OSKX reporting marks
and, through the Oil States Tank Car Co. subsidiary, these cars were
leased to other petroleum shippers. In 1955 Mid-Continent merged
with the Sunray Oil Co. to form the D-X Sunray Oil Co. and in the
late '50s the tank cars were gradually restencied with SDRX reporting
marks as they came in to the shops for repainting.

I can't agree with Bruce that modeling a 10K gal. car would be "a
relatively straightforward kitbash." For one thing, the P2K dome is
too large and scratchbuilding a correct size dome with the safeties
on a side-mounted elbow would not be easy. A simpler approach, if
you don't insist on a 10K car, would be to build the F&C resin kit
for an 8K Type 11. I am attaching to an off-list e-mail photo scans
of both the 8K and 10K Mid-Continent Type 11s with P/L schemes that
were current in the early 1950s.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NMRA Conventions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Westerfield wrote:
Tony - I couldn't disagree more. Until last year I had given a clinic at the national for about 20 straight years. I never expected anything. I occasionally got a presenter's badge, a certificate or even a plaque. This is a volunteer organization. I LOVE to give clinics. In fact, I often carry one around with me to a meeting in case of a no-show. If giving a clinic is too much of a bother without getting compensation, don't volunteer.
Al, I personally agree with you, and as you know, I often volunteer for talks and only rarely receive any kind of compensation. I too have plenty of those "thank you" certificates. That doesn't mean that ALL clinicians at all meeting should get stiffed. I've always believed in helping those who need help.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Top 20 North American Freight Car Fleets, January 1949

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Armand Premo wrote:
Tony,Then does that mean I should disregard all the other evidence that I have ,or have seen? :- )
You can (and we know, you will) treat the evidence any way you wish. It's when you generalize about it that I get concerned <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NMRA Conventions

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 18 May 2011 13:40:01 -0500, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote
Tony - I couldn't disagree more. Until last year I had given a clinic at the
national for about 20 straight years. I never expected anything. I
occasionally got a presenter's badge, a certificate or even a plaque. This is
a volunteer organization. I LOVE to give clinics. In fact, I often carry one
around with me to a meeting in case of a no-show. If giving a clinic is too
much of a bother without getting compensation, don't volunteer. - Al Westerfield
Most of us are in the hobby strictly as a hobby; some are in it as a business - whether
part or full time. Those who do both have a fine line to walk and many such as Al do it
well and have a track record of volunteer service behind them. There are some folks who
simply won't move or show unless they get paid, but we generally know who they are. I
don't expect any compensation, but it is 100% hobby for me. I don't need to earn a
living from model railroading, so I don't try. I think some folks come in as a hobby
but they see green changing hands, and vastly overestimate the amount of it available to
a casual player. Like I say, they can be pretty obvious about it at times, but most of
them either go away, or get in the groove.

I think also the key to volunteering is to not volunteer for something you don't really
want to do, or don't have the time or resources to do. That can quickly lead to
pressure, resentment, and a sense of entitlement in return for sacrifice. Back in the
90s, I was one of the first to go take pictures at national shows - both the NTS and
Rosemont shows, and RPM meets, and post candid observations on line without any
advertiser obligations. It's amazing how quickly expectations rose. I would start
getting emails the day after the show asking when my report would be ready, when I had
piles of film to develop in between going back to working my day job. Then I'd get
emails from people telling me my report was no good because it focused on HO scale and
ignored N scale. I snidely offered anyone who wasn't satisfied with my volunteer
reports triple their money back... didn't have any takers.

Really by the turn of the century, I pretty much bowed out of the blow-by-blow coverage.
Web sites and photo hosting were pretty much available for little or nothing to most
anybody, digital cameras were common - many people were doing what I had done and doing
it better. So now if I cover a meet, it's strictly at my whim. I am going off to
Marion tomorrow, and I'll probably take some pictures but I will most likely just toss
them all up on my web site without captions and let them tell the story. It's not that
I didn't enjoy doing the web articles, just that the obligation to do them (and in a
timely fashion) took most of the fun out of it for me. I still have gobs and gobs of
show photos - going back as far as 1996 and Long Beach - that have only been seen by a
handful of people. At this point, 96 would be a retrospective not a "news story"... LOL.

I had dreams of hosting an RPM meet in the Cincinnati area, and some folks expressed
interest and said they'd help. The 2005 NMRA convention cured me of that fantasy. A
grand total of seven people - including myself, and Bill Wischer from Walthers - brought
models to the RPM room. Not one of the left-coasters showed up (I had probably made a
dozen left-coast trips for various shows in the preceding decade), and in fact only one
other *local* even showed up. It's quite obvious nobody considered the venue/town worth
the trouble, and there is little I could do to change that impression. I had to look at
the situation and admit that in spite of my plugging, I had nothing to offer... and
nobody showed because word was out ahead of time that nobody was GOING to show.

OTOH, Denis Blake had a highly successful first-time meet at Marion Union Station last
year, and is gearing up as we speak for what should be a highly successful second meet.
If I've learned anything from 16 years in the whole RPM movement, both political and
philosophical, it's stick to what you're good at and leave the rest to the people who
are good at it.

Andy


Re: COINCIDENCES

Tim O'Connor
 

A quick check of my disk of JPEG's reveals

CP 123456 (box car)
L&N 12345 (box car)
NP 123456 (log flat)
NRLX 12345 (covered hopper)
SBD 123456 (box car)

Somewhere I have a scan that shows two box cars coupled to each
other, belonging to two different railroads, with the same number.

Tim O'Connor

Steve Lucas wrote:
"A Ted Culotta article in RMC a few years back showed a photo of a CPR "Fowler"
steel-frame 36' boxcar--CP 123456."

From Rich Burg's collection comes a Paul Dunn photo of PRR 123456, Class X28A,
published in several different articles, including an "It Ain't Prototypical"
short in Model Railroader and in my article on Class X28 in TKM (Issue 23).


Ben Hom


Re: UP models under represented?

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

I understand that about you Mike -- So for you, the entire period 1946
to 1954 is as if the UP didn't buy a single new box car.
Well...they must be passing through pretty fast or during the night.

You mentioned
the B-50-40, but that was a pre-1950 PS-1 and no one has ever produced
that model.
Hmmm. I've been wondering who did produce it. No One, huh? Strange name...I don't recall it. The car IS real, BTW, Superior door and welded sides and all.

Mike Brock


Re: Great Northern boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

I am certain this subject has come up before, but I can't locate the
emails. GN rebuilt 50' single sheathed, single and double door auto cars
with steel sides in the 1950's. The single door cars can be modeled
with the Westerfield kits which have the fishbelly underframe and ends
needed for the project. It looks like this double door car got new ends
as well as a new roof.

I have a photo of one of the cars, Richard Hendrickson's model of
GN 39345, which is a single sheathed car painted in the Empire Builder
scheme.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------------

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205357&nseq=134

From Scott R. Thompson's "Great Northern Color Pictorial - Vol 1", page 90:
Series 40100 to 40299 - rebuilt from outside braced box cars in 1954 -
original series - 29000 to 29899 - built 1925.
Outside steel sheathing, Pullman ends and roof, upgrade brake equipment.
Two 7' wide Camel doors, Universal handbrake, friction bearing trucks.
IL = 50' 6"
IW = 9' 2"
IH = 10' 6"
4862 cubic capacity
110,000 load capacity.
Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Steve;

There are PRR cars in paint so terrible, the road forced to fix and reweigh
the car couldn't read the road name, and had to stencil the reporting marks
and car number from the underframe, on a new paint patch.

I did a model of an X29B repatched and stenciled by another road, using their
own lettering. It is definitely not close to PRR lettering!

Funny as #$%%

Elden

Tony--
Until you mentioned this car having been repainted off the PRR, I'd have
allowed that this was within the realm of possibility.

I just don't think that the Pennsy would lend out their stencils to an
off-line road or shop. So given a paint life of 15-25 years, this car would
have been re-painted at least once--off-line?? I suppose some industrious car
shop painter could have either used their road's stencils or made ersatz
Pennsy stencils when it came time to letter the car? I find this a little
hard to believe...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , anthony
wagner <anycw1@...> wrote:

Re PRR box cars never going "home": My memory may be faulty but I seem
to recall reading long ago, probably in "Trains", that in the
aftermath of the PC merger someone in the car service department found
records of an X29 that had been built in the 1920s, loaded offline
soon afterward, and had subsequently been repaired and even repainted
on other railroads, then ultimately retired without ever having come
back to the Pennsy. Don't know if it is true, but having worked for a
railroad for many years before incentive per diem rules changed
things, it certainly seems plausible. Tony Wagner





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: NMRA Conventions

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Tony - I couldn't disagree more. Until last year I had given a clinic at the national for about 20 straight years. I never expected anything. I occasionally got a presenter's badge, a certificate or even a plaque. This is a volunteer organization. I LOVE to give clinics. In fact, I often carry one around with me to a meeting in case of a no-show. If giving a clinic is too much of a bother without getting compensation, don't volunteer. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NMRA Conventions


Great. Simpler and cheaper convention administration, at the
expense of the volunteer clinician. Not an approach I approve of,
Doug. Fairness in comps or other support is a legitimate worry, but
solving it by stiffing ALL clinicians is a solution which I'd
characterize as simple, appealing, and wrong.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: COINCIDENCES

Bill Welch
 

My Sunshine model of an ATSF Bx10 is numbered 123456 from the prototype photo I have.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Steve Lucas wrote:
"A Ted Culotta article in RMC a few years back showed a photo of a CPR "Fowler"
steel-frame 36' boxcar--CP 123456."

From Rich Burg's collection comes a Paul Dunn photo of PRR 123456, Class X28A,
published in several different articles, including an "It Ain't Prototypical"
short in Model Railroader and in my article on Class X28 in TKM (Issue 23).


Ben Hom 


Re: COINCIDENCES

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
"A Ted Culotta article in RMC a few years back showed a photo of a CPR "Fowler"
steel-frame 36' boxcar--CP 123456."

From Rich Burg's collection comes a Paul Dunn photo of PRR 123456, Class X28A,
published in several different articles, including an "It Ain't Prototypical"
short in Model Railroader and in my article on Class X28 in TKM (Issue 23).


Ben Hom


Re: NMRA Conventions

Rhbale@...
 

Last year, Naperville attendees received free ducats to the IHobby Expo at
Rosemont. I don't recall if they were good any day or if there were some
restrictions. No confirmation yet but I know Joe D'Elia is currently
negotiating for free passes again this year.

Richard Bale
Read Model Railroad Hobbyist magaZine, its always FREE at _mrhmag.com

In a message dated 5/18/2011 1:06:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
gsgondola@... writes:




Speaking of shows, it just dawned on me that the Naperville (now Lisle)
meet is
currently scheduled for the same weekend as the Rosemont iHobby Expo (or
whatever it's
now called). First time in 10(?) years? I will probably go to Rosemont
Sunday, unless
somehow I can rep for somebody and get in on Thursday. Has been a while, I
think 03 was
the last time I went to the Rosemont show.

Andy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
"Until you mentioned this car having been repainted off the PRR, I'd have
allowed

that this was within the realm of possibility.

I just don't think that the Pennsy would lend out their stencils to an off-line
road or shop. So given a paint life of 15-25 years, this car would have been
re-painted at least once--off-line?? I suppose some industrious car shop painter

could have either used their road's stencils or made ersatz Pennsy stencils when

it came time to letter the car? I find this a little hard to believe..."

"Repainted" is perhaps too strong a word.  I have several photos from the Bob's
Photo collection and in the PRR Color Guides showing partial repaints of PRR
reporting marks using non-standard stencils on heavily weathered cars.


Ben Hom


Re: COINCIDENCES

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

A Ted Culotta article in RMC a few years back showed a photo of a CPR "Fowler" steel-frame 36' boxcar--CP 123456.

I should add that working railroaders that I've known usually look at or use the last three car numbers when switching, making a cut, or referencing cars, i.e. "a CP 456".

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "stvvallee" <stvvallee@...> wrote:


Dear Group...

While looking through the May, 1944 issue of Railroad Magazine, I spotted this item on page 125:


...."Coincidences such as two boxcars with identical numbers on the same train are more tare than four-leaf clovers, but this one actually happened last November 17th with cars of the Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha and the Northwestern Pacific both numbered 15643 on a train of the Milwaukee Road. Dean E. Ickens of Malden,Wash., was a brakeman in the crew; Edgar Dubel was conductor.

"When we left Othello, Wash., on that date, running east as Extra 59," Dean explains, "we had 76 CMStPM&O boxcars and we picked up the NWP car at Marengo, Wash. Another oddity on this train was an Omaha Line boxcar numbered 22222---five digits all the same!"....


I'm sure if any of the Group tried this on their layouts, the laughter would be endless from their guests.

Steve Vallee