Date   

Re: MP hoppers in California

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson writes:

All of this having been well
documented, I know of no Santa Fe gurus who have pulled out even a
single hair over it. And by the way (get ready for a cheap shot),
this particular Santa Fe guru still has a full head of hair, unlike
our esteemed list administrator.
I would speculate that your barber might reduce his fee after you have run Prototype Rails AND the STMFC for ten yrs.<G> Actually, I appreciate the fact that my haircuts are rather quicker than some. Gives me more time to work on Prototype Rails. Only 8 more months. Geeez.

The MP hopper story...and the source of its coal would not be complete without mentioning the photo on the inside cover of the UPHS The Streamliner, Vol 18, #4. It shows a train of 40 or so hopper cars near Lyndyll, UT,[ 118 miles south of SLC ] in 1952 which contains at least 2 MP 3 bay hoppers [ and probably 2 more ]. Utah coal? Possibly. Of additional interest are the P&LE and NYC gons at the first of the train...loaded with something that looks like...coal. To complicate the issue is the eastbound UP train at Wahsatch, UT [ 65 miles east of Ogden on the Ogden/Cheyenne mainline ]. In its consist are a 50 ton and 70 ton MP hopper...plus 2 Rock Island gons...apparently MTY. Add to that the MP hoppers at Laramie.

Mike Brock


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Here are some photos of the N&W H-10



http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&id=759&Type=Picture



And here are some photos of the N&W H-2a:



http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&id=80&Type=Picture



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Harman" <gsgondola@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:13:14 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars

 




On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:57:22 -0400, mike brock wrote

Well...there isn't much difference between an H2a and an H10. The H10 is 4"
wider but the other dimensions are the same.
Nope. You can't make an H10 out of an H2a, if you could I'd already have a bunch of
kitbashes in the works. It's easier to scratch build it. Unfortunately I don't have
scale drawings of the H10.

http://www.gp30.com/events/lrm2004/lrm2004-038.jpg - on the left is Jim6's scratchbuilt
(actually a long discontinued styrene spaghetti kit) H10, on the right is a Broadway
H2a. Of course these are models but prototype photos reveal the same comparison. The
H10 sides are not as tall, it has a more "slender" profile if you will. One of those
things that is really hard to describe unless you can put the two side by side,
fortunately I had the opportunity at the 2004 LRM. Jim's is also the only model I've
ever seen of an H10, in any scale or material.

Andy


Re: N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Beginning in 3-1956 to past the end of the list's period of interest.



Jim, have you considered the N&W H-9?  These were the two-bay hoppers rebuilt from the Class HL; N&W had lots and lots of them.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "James R. Hunter" <jhunter@...>
To: STMFC@..., "Andy Harman" <gsgondola@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:20:02 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

 




Roughly when were the H10 hoppers built?

Jim

Quoting Andy Harman < gsgondola@... >:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:56:23 -0400, SMMW wrote
I have the N&W H10 hopper on my "to-do" list. Might not be this year but it
will be done as a 1-pc bodied resin kit.
If I buy and build 25 of them, that's virtual assurance a styrene RTR
version will come
along shortly after....

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:57:22 -0400, mike brock wrote

Well...there isn't much difference between an H2a and an H10. The H10 is 4"
wider but the other dimensions are the same.
Nope. You can't make an H10 out of an H2a, if you could I'd already have a bunch of
kitbashes in the works. It's easier to scratch build it. Unfortunately I don't have
scale drawings of the H10.

http://www.gp30.com/events/lrm2004/lrm2004-038.jpg - on the left is Jim6's scratchbuilt
(actually a long discontinued styrene spaghetti kit) H10, on the right is a Broadway
H2a. Of course these are models but prototype photos reveal the same comparison. The
H10 sides are not as tall, it has a more "slender" profile if you will. One of those
things that is really hard to describe unless you can put the two side by side,
fortunately I had the opportunity at the 2004 LRM. Jim's is also the only model I've
ever seen of an H10, in any scale or material.

Andy


Re: Tank car question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 12, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard, are you sure about the black paint? I have a 1952 color view
of USAX 10983, and it definitely appears to be dark green -- like
DGLE,
or Brunswick Green. The lettering is yellow. I think Proto 2000 (or
maybe
Intermountain) did a green USAX tank car.
I'm sure most of them were black, Tim, as I remember seeing them in
the late '40s and early '50s. As for your color photo showing a
green car, one can't argue with photographic evidence (though,
frankly, I'd suspect some sort of color shift in the photo).

The "light gray" may be "imitation aluminum" -- the color of UPS
trailers.
Some photos show DODX tank cars in an aluminum color, but that's
well after
the STMFC era.
I have several shots of the cars in the '60s which consistently show
them as light gray, though none show a recently repainted car so its
conceivable that the "light gray" is actually faded and weathered
aluminum. I'll add, however, that a survivor exists at the Portola
RR Museum in California, and it was definitely painted light gray
when they got it.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: MP hoppers California to West Virginia

jerryglow2
 

From my observations in Lala land, I've seen high sided MP gondolas (usually singles) with coke but full strings of hoppers were coal.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Mike

Those MP hoppers could have originated in Texas, and could be
filled with coke made from petroleum. I have a photo showing
three MP, one B&O, and one N&W hopper loaded with petroleum coke
at a Texas refinery.

Tim O'Connor



Santa Fe gurus are no doubt pulling out what hair they have left today after
viewing the photo on pg 25 of the just appearing War Bonnet, First Quarter
2008. They probably thought...ohhh nooo...when they looked carefully at the
photo. It shows a nice view of the San Bernardino yard in 1950 with mention
that the El Captitan is arriving. However, much more interesting to those on
the STMFC that are always on the lookout for "eastern style" hoppers in
California is a string of cars 5 tracks away. Here we see no less than 8 MP
3 bay hopper cars [ maybe more ]...filled with what looks
like...well...coal.

Mike Brock


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Andy Harman writes:

I know you built an N&W H2a to run on Sherman Hill, but are you sure that
it wasn't supposed to be an H10?
Well...there isn't much difference between an H2a and an H10. The H10 is 4" wider but the other dimensions are the same.

I'll be on the lookout for the N&W hopper and measure it.

Mike Brock


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 12, 2011, at 9:56 PM, Andy Harman wrote:

Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I have
one -
mainly because my wife likes tank cars and picked it up at a show.
I have
no idea if it represents any prototype.
It doesn't, Andy, not even close AHM made it as a modified tank on
their 10,500 gal. "chemical car," a cheap copy of the inaccurate
Athearn "chemical car." So it's tank scales out to about S scale.
The 6 compartment wine tank cars built by both GATC and AC&F were
6,000 gal. cars with small diameter tanks.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: MP hoppers in California

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 12, 2011, at 9:24 PM, mike brock wrote:

Jerry Michels asks about MP hoppers out West:

Mike, any details on this?
I originally wrote this on March 25, 2008:

Santa Fe gurus are no doubt pulling out what hair they have left
today after
viewing the photo on pg 25 of the just appearing War Bonnet, First
Quarter
2008. They probably thought...ohhh nooo...when they looked
carefully at the
photo. It shows a nice view of the San Bernardino yard in 1950 with
mention
that the El Captitan is arriving. However, much more interesting to
those on
the STMFC that are always on the lookout for "eastern style"
hoppers in
California is a string of cars 5 tracks away. Here we see no less
than 8 MP
3 bay hopper cars [ maybe more ]...filled with what looks
like...well...coal.
The Kaiser steel plant in Fontana, CA, built during World War II,
consumed large quantities of coal. At first, the coal came from
Utah, mostly in UP, D&RGW hoppers, and UCR drop bottom gondolas and
UP and D&RGW hoppers; all are visible in various wartime and postwar
yard shots at Barstow and San Bernardino. There was a Santa Fe
Fontana turn that conveyed coal and other supplies from San
Bernardino to the Fontana steel plant 9 miles down the Second
District towards Los Angeles. But that's as far as those cars got,
and they never appeared anywhere else on the Los Angeles Division.
Ca. 1950, the coal began coming from a different source (I"m not sure
where) in mostly Missouri Pacific hoppers. Again, there are several
photos that show these cars at Barstow, San Bernardino, and on the
First District crossing Cajon Pass. All of this having been well
documented, I know of no Santa Fe gurus who have pulled out even a
single hair over it. And by the way (get ready for a cheap shot),
this particular Santa Fe guru still has a full head of hair, unlike
our esteemed list administrator.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: RTR Resin

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

I'd like to respond herewith to Dave Nelson's message #99187 and Tim O'Connor's message #99193.

As a practical matter (in this group, at least, if not universally) both gentlemen are correct. In the case of M&StL freight cars I have allowed myself to pronounce certain models 'accurate' and others not. I know some modelers rely on my pronouncements.

That said, let us take up the matter of freight car trucks. Who among us has identified a freight car truck as 'wrong' just because the journal box lids do not match the prototype? I suspect no one has.

If the side frame is correct it appears to me that we all (me included) are willing to accept a truck as correct even though the journal box lids, maybe the bolster, perhaps the brake beams and possibly even the journal box size do not match the prototype. I suspect we all use a definition of 'accurate' that is relative and individualized. When will we judge a models accuracy based on the correct retaining valve?

If I haven't already, this argument could be carried to a ridiculous extreme. Please see the first sentence of the second paragraph above.

Gene Green


Re: N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

naptownprr
 

Roughly when were the H10 hoppers built?

Jim

Quoting Andy Harman <gsgondola@...>:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:56:23 -0400, SMMW wrote
I have the N&W H10 hopper on my "to-do" list. Might not be this year but it
will be done as a 1-pc bodied resin kit.
If I buy and build 25 of them, that's virtual assurance a styrene RTR
version will come
along shortly after....

Andy


Re: N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:56:23 -0400, SMMW wrote
I have the N&W H10 hopper on my "to-do" list. Might not be this year but it
will be done as a 1-pc bodied resin kit.
If I buy and build 25 of them, that's virtual assurance a styrene RTR version will come
along shortly after....

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

leakinmywaders
 

Second. Some of us would buy half dozen or more X-3s in basic funeral black.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Mike

I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah... But I'd be shocked if a
good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?

Tim O'



Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process...

















Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


Re: Red Caboose Tank car question

Clark Propst
 

Tim, that sounds interesting. It there a photo somewhere I can view, or could you tell me about where the extra bands are located?
Thanks, Clark Propst

PS Thanks to all who answered : ))

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Besides USAX (USQX?) as an owner of the Red Caboose 10,000 gallon
ICC 103W single-dome tank car, there is also UTLX 39150 (and other
numbers too, no doubt) built by ACF in 1951. This car is almost an
exact match to the kit, if you just add two extra tank bands with
strip styrene.

Tim O'Connor


N&W H10 hopper kit .. it's coming

Jim King
 

I have the N&W H10 hopper on my "to-do" list. Might not be this year but it
will be done as a 1-pc bodied resin kit.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

Ph. (828) 777-5619

<www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Mike;

I'd add the welded 6-panel 40-foot box car with d/p roof, the 10' IH box cars
bought by B&O, WM, CNJ and others, The PS 52' gon (PS-5), a good 4-6k
chlorine tank, and an acid tank, as well as the GATC Type 30 and UTLX X-3's.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of mike
brock
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:28 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars



Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [ NIM
] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt car
that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By definition [
for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that appeared in
relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily on ALL
American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay offset
side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of a
hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I'e mentioned the IC two-and three-bay "alternate standard" hopper. As well as the Enterprise GS gon in 36' and 40' variants. Being a quasi-CN 1956-era modeller, those two come to mind immediately.

But then there are also the CN 503500-513499 series 40' seven-panel steel frame boxcars, which travelled all over North America. So, far there have been three resin kits in HO, and one in O.

All are IMHO, good candidates for RTR models, but I've been told how small fortunes are made in the model rail business. By starting with large ones...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "mike brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By
definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that
appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily
on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I wish that I only could use three X-3 tanks!! More like a dozen, maybe?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 11:26 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah...
I remember Atlas running a certain tank car in "boring" paint schemes that
was impossible to get, and they claimed the billboards were more popular.
The boring paint was such a yawner that I got triple my money for an N
scale one I ebayed. It may be true that pretty paint sells, but accurate
and common paint also sells, even if it's not all that extravagant.

good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!
I'd buy three.

Andy


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Yep, a real oinker. But if you cut out the domes, you might be able to use them for a scratchbuilding project -- they have those
sharp cylindrical edges with a flat top, while most other models represent the rounded edge, convex domes.
But that's just exactly the dome type that's easiest to scratchbuild. I've done so for multiple cars and have shown one of them on my blog. I can give a link to anyone interested.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Missing Significant Frt Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Yep, a real oinker. But if you cut out the domes, you might be
able to use them for a scratchbuilding project -- they have those
sharp cylindrical edges with a flat top, while most other models
represent the rounded edge, convex domes.

Tim O'

It's a dreadful model, Andy, way oversize (probably around
double what it should be). Possibly AHM took a photo of a 6-dome car
and blew it up to make it 40 feet long. Its capacity, if you measure
it, is over 12,000 gallons, and the domes are still too big for the
individual compartments. It's a "super foobie" IMO.

Tony Thompson