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Re: Underrepresented roads and car types

Armand Premo
 

The DRGW has almost been completely overlooked..Even the "Cookie Box" is a "Foobie.".Armand Premo----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Underrepresented roads and car types




There are lots of neglected prototype railroads -- including some that
may surprise you. For example, the UNION PACIFIC!

UP all-steel box cars in HO scale plastic, from the 1930's to around 1960?
Well, let's see TRIX did two cars. And there was one class of post-1953
PS-1 box cars. I can't think of any others, although there are some cars
often used as stand ins (1937 AAR, Proto 2000, Intermountain 1940 AAR).
Not one UP postwar box car except for that one PS-1, until you get to the
1960's. And that -includes- resin!

UP has been much neglected in resin as well. Sunshine must have done 5 CB&Q
models and 10 Santa Fe models for every UP model they did. :-)

Other under-represented roads? IC. NYC. C&O. N&W. Many smaller Class 1's
like RDG as Bruce said.

Tim O'Connor

>Yes - read the archives! (where you will see that the UTL X-3s, GATC
>tank cars and a earlier SP flat car are all extremely common cars
>missing from the modeling inventory). And then I'll go off the
>reservation and state the the PRR K8 stock car, and several READING
>Hoppers are also very much needed by me, if not anyone else <G>
>
>Regards
>Bruce Smith
>Auburn, AL






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Re: Foobies

Armand Premo
 

I wholly agree.I wish somebody would produce different booms to provide even a greater variety of a superior product.....Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Lucas
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 10:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Foobies



While we've discussed the "foobie" Gould tank car, IMHO his HO scale 120-ton Industrial wrecking crane approaches an art form as a model. And just happens to have a prototype or two.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
It appears the work he si doing is head and shoulders above anything done in the model railroad hobby, as are the commissions, I'm sure. That, I recall, is why Bill eventually sold out; there is really no money in this hobby, and you end up running production, with all it's risks, rather than locking in those big bucks commissions.
>
> It's a shame that he didn't stay with the hobby; it's our loss.
>
> Dennis
>






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Re: Rivets

Tim O'Connor
 

Also, Archer rivets come in many sizes. The Micro Mark web page doesn't
specify any details (rivet-rivet spacing, rivet size) that would seem to
be vitally important to modelers!

http://www.micromark.com/HO-Scale-Surface-Detail-Rivet-Decals,9968.html

Tim O'Connor

At 5/14/2011 08:44 PM Saturday, you wrote:
I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way compare to the Archer rivets. They might look okay initially but you might very well be disappointed after painting. If you feel they will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and then painting them...it would be frustrating to use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.

Jack Burgess
Re: Underrepresented roads and car types

Tim O'Connor
 

There are lots of neglected prototype railroads -- including some that
may surprise you. For example, the UNION PACIFIC!

UP all-steel box cars in HO scale plastic, from the 1930's to around 1960?
Well, let's see TRIX did two cars. And there was one class of post-1953
PS-1 box cars. I can't think of any others, although there are some cars
often used as stand ins (1937 AAR, Proto 2000, Intermountain 1940 AAR).
Not one UP postwar box car except for that one PS-1, until you get to the
1960's. And that -includes- resin!

UP has been much neglected in resin as well. Sunshine must have done 5 CB&Q
models and 10 Santa Fe models for every UP model they did. :-)

Other under-represented roads? IC. NYC. C&O. N&W. Many smaller Class 1's
like RDG as Bruce said.

Tim O'Connor

Yes - read the archives! (where you will see that the UTL X-3s, GATC
tank cars and a earlier SP flat car are all extremely common cars
missing from the modeling inventory). And then I'll go off the
reservation and state the the PRR K8 stock car, and several READING
Hoppers are also very much needed by me, if not anyone else <G>

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
Re: Foobies

spsalso
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

While we've discussed the "foobie" Gould tank car, IMHO his HO scale 120-ton Industrial wrecking crane approaches an art form as a model. And just happens to have a prototype or two.

Steve Lucas.
"If you're having an assembly problem, YOU are making a mistake."

It is a STUNNING bit of design/engineering work.

But, it's neither a foobie or an anti-foobie. Like the Dude, it just IS.


Ed

Edward Sutorik
Re: Foobies

Andy Harman
 

At 03:37 PM 5/13/2011 -0400, you wrote:
The classic example is the R-40-23 tooled by Jerry Porter, who made
no secret of his work, so Intermountain rushed in with the exact
same model (instead of reducing their O-scale R-40-10 to HO scale)
simply to run a torpedo into his side... and IMWX's boat sank very
rapidly. Rapid replication and preemption and commonly used tactics
in the hobby business.
The standard operating procedure is to say "nobody will buy a model of X". Until A-company tools one, then B-company, C-company, and D-company are convinced A-company knows something they don't and rush the same product to market. It seems that manufacturers pay more attention to each other than to their customers, and nothing in recent years has happened to make me think differently.

Andy
Re: Foobies

Andy Harman
 

At 08:16 AM 5/13/2011 -0700, you wrote:
Do that, and you'll guarantee photos of those tank cars will surface AFTER you
finish the models!
Whatever works. I find this is working for various Wabash, NKP, Monon and N&W box cars.

Andy
Re: Foobies

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

While we've discussed the "foobie" Gould tank car, IMHO his HO scale 120-ton Industrial wrecking crane approaches an art form as a model. And just happens to have a prototype or two.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
It appears the work he si doing is head and shoulders above anything done in the model railroad hobby, as are the commissions, I'm sure. That, I recall, is why Bill eventually sold out; there is really no money in this hobby, and you end up running production, with all it's risks, rather than locking in those big bucks commissions.

It's a shame that he didn't stay with the hobby; it's our loss.

Dennis
Re: Coupler box fasteners

Jim Barnes
 

JP, I found the following sites for coupler box screws and truck mounting screws:
 
For the coupler box screws, they are available from an eBay store called Laptop Screws in both wafer head (best style) or pan head, both are phillips drive in sizes M2 of different lengths and black finish 
 
For the 2-56 stainless black finish truck mounting screws also phillips drive try:
 
www.smallparts.com
 
hope this helps.
Jim Barnes

--- On Wed, 5/11/11, JP Barger <bargerjp@reboxx.com> wrote:


From: JP Barger <bargerjp@reboxx.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Coupler box fasteners
To: "Jim Barnes" <atsfjim2000@yahoo.com>, "STMFC@yahoo" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 10:41 AM


 



Dear Jim et al, Thanks for your message about fasteners I use to secure
coupler boxes to car underbodies. I use a series of Japanese metric
miniature machine screws. The original requirement to go in this direction
came from using American Standard #2-56 round head screws, whose heads stick
out so far as sometimes to interfere with proper free rotation of the outer
wheel axles, causing ugly marks on the axles, and derailments to boot. In
addition, the American screws are UGLY all the way to the bone. The Japanese
screws are stainless steel, originally designed for Japanese camera
bodies, and now used in miniaturization of much small hardware. American
standard pan head slotted or Philips head screws could be substituted, but
the heads are SO large. Their advantage is that the axle rubbing problem
goes away. Many of the brass models use metric screw mounting, but a
minority have blackened screws.

The series of screws I employ has Philips pan heads, 1.4, 1.7 and 2.0mm in
thread diameter. Taps for these are available from any serious metric screw
dealer. The head diameters for these screws range from 2.0 to 2.5mm. The
2.0mm head diameters are called type1; the 2.5mm heads are type 3. These
screws are blackened with a satin finish. Thus, since most plastic
underbodies and coupler boxes are black, anyhow, you're relieved from
painting the screwheads. The use of these screws has made my underbodies so
much neater. Since I like to run longer trains, I need extreme reliability.
Thus every coupler box is first applied to the car underbody with a small
wipe of Goo, or its equivalent, and then screwed down, as well. The Goo
application prevents coupler box rotation; the alternative is to use two
1.0mm screws, applied through the ears on the Kadee box.

My screw collection came mostly from Metric Screw in Wakefield, MA. Their
phone number is 781-245-4950. I believe their stock of these screws is
exhausted. They may need to special order them. Or you may need to find a
new source. If you do, please let me know. Thanks. Another source, from
which I have a lot of screws in the aforementioned sizes, is NWSL. But the
last time I looked, their screws were shiny finish stainless. The heads will
need to be painted, and a screwdriver will remove the paint gradually. I
wish they would go for black finish. Small metric screws can be bought in
Tokyo from small electronics parts suppliers, if you ever go there. I've
done it, but it was a long time ago.

By the way, the blackened 1.7 & 2.0 screws come in lengths one mm apart, and
in the shorter ones, only a half mm apart. Very handy for open and tank
cars. No cutting and filing screws to length! I need to add that when I'm
working with WOOD bodies, using the normal tap drills, I drill and tap just
like I was working with metal. I've never had any trouble with the metric
screws stripping, loosening or falling out of the wood; the same applies
with plastic bodies.

Something I would like is a source of BLACKENED #2-56 stainless screws,
Philips pan head, satin finish, for truck mounting. If you find a source
for these, I'd also like to know.

Best regards, JP

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Rivets

Jack Burgess
 

I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way compare to the Archer rivets. They might look okay initially but you might very well be disappointed after painting. If you feel they will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and then painting them...it would be frustrating to use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.

Jack Burgess

On May 14, 2011, at 4:46 PM, "Ed" <nprybiged@comcast.net> wrote:


In building a scale model of rolling stock you have no dought
delt with Archer Rivets.

Well, today I received my Micro-Mark order of their new product,
No.84985, HO scale Riverts. I was BLOWN AWAY. For a introductory
offer of $9.95 (Reg. $14.95) plus $4.95 Shipping which ends
Jun 13, 2011 you get TWO sheets, 6 1/2" x 10", of rivets, that's
a total of 118 SQ. INCHES.

Each sheet contains 16 GROUPS of different spacing, that includes
20 rolls of double lined for Tank cars, TWO groupings of curved
and circle patterns, FOUR groupings of louvers and FOUR groupings
of grillwork.

Needless to say, NO in my opinion, that beats Archer, HANDS DOWN.

Ed Uresm




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Rivets

Ed <nprybiged@...>
 

In building a scale model of rolling stock you have no dought
delt with Archer Rivets.

Well, today I received my Micro-Mark order of their new product,
No.84985, HO scale Riverts. I was BLOWN AWAY. For a introductory
offer of $9.95 (Reg. $14.95) plus $4.95 Shipping which ends
Jun 13, 2011 you get TWO sheets, 6 1/2" x 10", of rivets, that's
a total of 118 SQ. INCHES.

Each sheet contains 16 GROUPS of different spacing, that includes
20 rolls of double lined for Tank cars, TWO groupings of curved
and circle patterns, FOUR groupings of louvers and FOUR groupings
of grillwork.

Needless to say, NO in my opinion, that beats Archer, HANDS DOWN.

Ed Uresm
Re: Underrepresented roads and car types

Armand Premo
 

Jest no,simply an exercise in futility.Actually the question was rhetorical trying to get a discussion going that might provide fodder for manufacturers.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: spsalso
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 7:10 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Underrepresented roads and car types





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "appremo" <armprem2@...> wrote:
>
> Is there a consensus as to roads that are under represented in the models available? Armand Premo
>

A consensus? Surely, you jest, sir.

I'd like to see a nice USRA double-sheathed box.

But that's not exactly an answer to your question. Are you asking if folks think there are "models available" that should be lettered for roads but aren't? If so, I'll propose the Atlas USRA steel rebuilt box--it'd be really nice to have it lettered for what appears to be the only road that actually had one like(ish) the model: Frisco. Now THAT'S under represented.

Ed

Edward Sutorik






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Re: Underrepresented roads and car types

spsalso
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "appremo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Is there a consensus as to roads that are under represented in the models available? Armand Premo
A consensus? Surely, you jest, sir.

I'd like to see a nice USRA double-sheathed box.

But that's not exactly an answer to your question. Are you asking if folks think there are "models available" that should be lettered for roads but aren't? If so, I'll propose the Atlas USRA steel rebuilt box--it'd be really nice to have it lettered for what appears to be the only road that actually had one like(ish) the model: Frisco. Now THAT'S under represented.


Ed

Edward Sutorik
Re: Consumer-grade 3D printers hit the mainstream

Robert kirkham
 

I've a foreground station model in development as well, though I won't be using this process for most of it. It has certain details that are a crushing pain to do in styrene, with layers, cutouts etc - all to be done in straight accurate repeated patterns. I will design those parts with the need to sand the grainy surface smooth in mind and add them to the styrene and brass sheet used for other parts of the model. And the result (I expect) will be a better station model than I could do by hand work.

That is the same for my approach to freight car modeling - parts with flat surfaces that can be sanded smooth are ideal - assuming it makes more sense to rapid prototype them than actually build from styrene. likewise, parts where the grain would not look bad (thinking weathered wood here) are worth consideration. But before I would bother I would consider the cost and time spent to create the 3d model and have it printed versus just sitting with blades and styrene sheet.

That said, I am also using the Sketchup drawings as a way to figure out dimensions when I lack other information. I find it very helpful to be able to tilt a 3D model into the same angle as a photo and compare the shapes and proportions. And if something seems out of whack, I love that it is so much easier to alter (compared with pen and ink drawings!)

Rob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "timken2626" <timken2626@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 9:56 AM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Consumer-grade 3D printers hit the mainstream

Thanks, Rob - this is just the kind of review I was hoping to see. It sounds to me like the current state of the art is not particularly good for fine modeling, but may be very suitable for such things as background models of prototype buildings that you want for creating the whole scene on your layout - at a cost trade off you must decide based on your own budget and modeling philosophy constraints.

Chuck Soule





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Underrepresented roads and car types

Bruce Smith
 

"appremo" <armprem2@surfglobal.net> 05/14/11 12:46 PM >>>
Is there a consensus as to roads that are under represented in the
models available? Armand Premo

Yes - read the archives! (where you will see that the UTL X-3s, GATC
tank cars and a earlier SP flat car are all extremely common cars
missing from the modeling inventory). And then I'll go off the
reservation and state the the PRR K8 stock car, and several READING
Hoppers are also very much needed by me, if not anyone else <G>

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
Re: Foobies

Rod Miller
 

On 5/14/11 4:37 AM, Bob Jones wrote:
Hi , Just to set the record straight , Jerry was part of InterMountain early
on , the prime mover , who lost control when he had to go for an investor to
get it off the ground . He wound up getting bought out for custom runs of
the 1937AAR boxcar as I remember . That was the first model , the PFE R40-10
came later , followed by the USRA hopper . This was the O scale side , if you
are talking about the HO models , I know nothing about that . Bob Jones
Bob, I think your 3rd sentence should read: "He wound up bringing out custom
runs .... ". And there were two other cars produced in O by Intermountain:
the tank car and the USRA gondola.

Rod


----- Original Message ----- From: Tim O'Connor To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 5/13/2011 3:38:15 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Foobies



Richard Hendrickson wrote

Not true, Dennis.
I read Dennis's post differently Richard. I think you are in agreement --
there were alternatives, people tried, but Hundman and Gould didn't listen.

if it had not been for Gould's obsession with secrecy ...
Based on stories I have heard, an "obsession" with secrecy may be the key to
survival for small businesses making large investments.

The classic example is the R-40-23 tooled by Jerry Porter, who made no secret
of his work, so Intermountain rushed in with the exact same model (instead of
reducing their O-scale R-40-10 to HO scale) simply to run a torpedo into his
side... and IMWX's boat sank very rapidly. Rapid replication and preemption
and commonly used tactics in the hobby business.

Tim O'Connor


--

Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2012 Meet is Feb 9-11
http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com
Re: The High Line before it became a park

Allen Rueter
 

That's not a very high-line, the one I'm thinking of had a fair number of DRGW hoppers on it, in Northern Calif.

 
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:12 AM
Subject: [STMFC] The High Line before it became a park


 
http://www.thehighline.org/galleries/images/the-high-line-in-operation




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Underrepresented roads and car types

Armand Premo
 

Is there a consensus as to roads that are under represented in the models available? Armand Premo
Re: Consumer-grade 3D printers hit the mainstream

Chuck Soule
 

Thanks, Rob - this is just the kind of review I was hoping to see. It sounds to me like the current state of the art is not particularly good for fine modeling, but may be very suitable for such things as background models of prototype buildings that you want for creating the whole scene on your layout - at a cost trade off you must decide based on your own budget and modeling philosophy constraints.

Chuck Soule
Re: Foobies

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Yes, we are talking about HO scale, IMWX kits. Jerry formed IMWX
after he left Intermountain.
Jerry, Fred Brummit and a third gentleman whose name escapes me formed InterMountain to produce O scale injection molded kits. They did the 1937 AAR boxcar, USRA hopper and PFE R-40-10 reefer. Jerry wanted to do HO models but couldn't get the other two to agree. There was a parting of the ways, and as part of the buyout InterMountain tooled the 1937 boxcar in HO for Jerry's new company, Innovative Model Works (IMWX). At some point, possibly coincident with this split, Frank Angstead was brought in as the "money man". Also at some point, the fellow whose name I can't remember left to form a company producing S scale models.

As Richard said, Jerry was a great designer but came up well short when it came to running a business. For example, he once told me he was under the impression that IM was to tool _three_ HO models for him, not one. That that didn't happen infers that Jerry was mistaken at best, or terribly sloppy with contractural matters.

But we do still have Jerry's boxcar, now offered by Red Caboose through (ironically) InterMountain. It's a puzzle to many of us why the roof InterMountain tooled for their own 40' HO boxcars is so poorly done, considering they had tooled a marvelous version of that same roof for Jerry.

(I know I don't always remember things perfectly, so please correct any mistakes I've made in the above recollection.)

Tom Madden
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