Date   
Re: Erie 78500 series boxcars

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Brian & Group!

In the several responses to Brian's two inquiries about ERIE boxcar painting practices, I believe his basic question has not been resolved, that is:  what would be the color of the repainted ends on the 1940 built 78500-78999 XM cars in the mid-1950s?

From my collection I found no help (yet) from boxcar lettering drawings.  Only the stenciling and monogram are referenced with no mention of 'body' color.  This is not the case for other drawings.

Several photos in my collection from even the mid to late 1940s suggest that the ends were being repainted in the FCR of the body.  However, new cars were being delivered in the mid-1950s with the black ends.  It would appear that any boxcar repainted by the RR did not receive black ends.  My own (late 1950s and beyond) experience viewing cars on the hometown ERIE did not present black ends at all but photo examples can be found after the 1960 E-L merger.

I believe this question has been addressed in the past by the ELRHS but I am not presently able to review that  in back issues of their Diamond but perhaps others have the pertinent ERIE documentation.  For your your needs you would be very safe going with FCR ends on any ERIE boxcar repainted before your late-1950s modeling era.

Regards from Grove City, Penna, where winter is returning......Mike Schleigh

On Saturday, November 23, 2019, 02:58:28 PM EST, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:


Does anyone have a mid 1950 photo of the Erie 78500-78999!cars. Working on a model and trying to determine if the ends were repainted brown or black.

Brian J. Carlson


Re: Erie 78500 series boxcars

 

I'll answer my own question.

Running board / brake step, Apex Tri-lok

Handbrake, Ajax

Link to Ed's table for 1937 40' AAR Boxcars

http://steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarmain.html

Dan Smith

Re: Erie 78500 series boxcars

 

Link to Trainlife file Garth references:

http://magazine.trainlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/rmj_199107.pdf

Article begins on page 42.

This car was done as a Des Plaines IMWX / RC kit, without the B-1 trucks.

Running board type? Handbrake?

Dan Smith

Re: Car Classifications For Loads

Bob Chaparro
 

Thanks for the book tip. Guy.
I just bought a print-on-demand copy from Abe Books.
Bob Chaparro

Re: Erie 78500 series boxcars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Al and Brian,

The builder's photos of 78500 (side and A-end) are on page 44 of Ed Hawkins' article "1937 AAR Boxcars built by ACF" in the July 1991 RAILMODEL JOURNAL. Ed said there was no chip available for the side color, but suggested Floquil ATSF Mineral Brown (allied roads NKP, C&O and PM also ordered these cars, and he specifies that paint color as the closest match for those roads). The Viking roof, underframe and National Type-B trucks were black.

Hope this is useful.


Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 3:20 PM Allan Smith <smithal9@...> wrote:

Try the Protocraft decal website under Erie 1937 boxcars. There is a photo of 78500 and a description of black car cement on the ends.


Al Smith
Sonora Ca
On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 08:39:45 AM PST, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Follow up does intermountain make 8 rung ladders for the end of the car 1937 AAR car.

My undec kit came with 8 rung ladders for the side but not the ends

Brian J. Carlson
> On Nov 23, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a mid 1950 photo of the Erie 78500-78999!cars. Working on a model and trying to determine if the ends were repainted brown or black.
>
> Brian J. Carlson
>
>
>



Re: Erie 78500 series boxcars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Having just gone through (and mostly deleted) all my email from last Thursday on, I was about to research this question for Brian, but Al has saved me the trouble.  I can confirm that he’s correct about this, however.  As to the follow-up about 8 rung ladders for the end . . . I think so.  My Shake’n’Take is based on that car, and came with an 8 rung ladder.  However, sometimes it seems that IM sends out these kits with a different end, so that might be the issue.  The car I did was from the 98500 series.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allan Smith
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 3:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Erie 78500 series boxcars

 

 

Try the Protocraft decal website under Erie 1937 boxcars. There is a photo of 78500 and a description of black car cement on the ends.

 

 

Al Smith

Sonora Ca

On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 08:39:45 AM PST, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

 

 

Follow up does intermountain make 8 rung ladders for the end of the car 1937 AAR car.

 

My undec kit came with 8 rung ladders for the side but not the ends

 

Brian J. Carlson

> On Nov 23, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

>

> Does anyone have a mid 1950 photo of the Erie 78500-78999!cars. Working on a model and trying to determine if the ends were repainted brown or black.

>

> Brian J. Carlson

>

>

>

 

 

 

Re: Erie 78500 series boxcars

Allan Smith
 


Try the Protocraft decal website under Erie 1937 boxcars. There is a photo of 78500 and a description of black car cement on the ends.


Al Smith
Sonora Ca

On Sunday, November 24, 2019, 08:39:45 AM PST, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:


Follow up does intermountain make 8 rung ladders for the end of the car 1937 AAR car.

My undec kit came with 8 rung ladders for the side but not the ends

Brian J. Carlson
> On Nov 23, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a mid 1950 photo of the Erie 78500-78999!cars. Working on a model and trying to determine if the ends were repainted brown or black.
>
> Brian J. Carlson
>
>
>



Re: Car Classifications For Loads

Guy Wilber
 

“Does anyone have a list or source I could consult?

Thanks.
Bob Chaparro”_,_ 

From Coughlin’s ‘Freight Car Distribution and Car Handling in The United States’.  A book anyone with interest in the subject should have a copy of in their library.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada





Car Classifications For Loads

Bob Chaparro
 

Car Classifications For Loads

This is a link to a copy of a C&O Empty Car Bill from the C&NW Modeling Blog:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ieeEFKtaZxY/UZmBmAocWdI/AAAAAAAAEhA/6H7fYj644-E/s640/C&O+Empty+Car+Bill.jpg

Near the top of this form is a listing of four classifications, A through D. I know these classifications refer to the suitability of a car for a load, with Class "A" being the highest in terms of clean items, food, etc.

What I have never seen is a listing of commodities grouped by these classes.

Does anyone have a list or source I could consult?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

Source of Empty Car Bill: http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2013/05/

Re: Erie 78500 series boxcars

Brian Carlson
 

Follow up does intermountain make 8 rung ladders for the end of the car 1937 AAR car.

My undec kit came with 8 rung ladders for the side but not the ends

Brian J. Carlson

On Nov 23, 2019, at 2:58 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Does anyone have a mid 1950 photo of the Erie 78500-78999!cars. Working on a model and trying to determine if the ends were repainted brown or black.

Brian J. Carlson


Re: Truck Color

mopacfirst
 

In my opinion you can tell fairly closely if you have at least a couple of photos in different light levels. 

For MP, who built a lot of their own cars before 1960, boxcar red cars generally had the trucks painted black.  Repainted cars may have had the trucks painted body color.  For the period of this list, boxcars were red, hoppers / gons / flatcars were black.

Ron Merrick

Re: Truck Color

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Al. This thread had gone dormant, and I still need information on ACY, B&O, CMO, CNW, D&TS, Frisco, GM&O, L&N, MKT, MON, MP, NKP, N&W, T&P, VGN, and WAB.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of al_brown03
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 7:10 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Color

 

Seaboard Air Line's 1948 "Instructions for Painting Freight Cars" (two pages in their mechanical department's standards manual) says: "No paint to be applied to trucks or truck brake rigging; however, it will not be necessary to mask against body over-spray." 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: Truck Color

al_brown03
 

Seaboard Air Line's 1948 "Instructions for Painting Freight Cars" (two pages in their mechanical department's standards manual) says: "No paint to be applied to trucks or truck brake rigging; however, it will not be necessary to mask against body over-spray." 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Chart: U.S. Forces Railcar Ownership

Bob Chaparro
 

Chart: U.S. Forces Railcar Ownership

The chart on this link is from an article, Defense Freight Car Operations Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow by George Gounley:

https://alu.army.mil/alog/issues/janfeb11/Story_Images/MS689-ch.gif

The chart illustrates the military freight car fleet, by type of car, through four wars and as of the date of the article. The fleet peaked at the end of the Korean War.

The complete article is on this link:

https://alu.army.mil/alog/issues/janfeb11/defense_freight.html

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Erie 78500 series boxcars

Brian Carlson
 

Does anyone have a mid 1950 photo of the Erie 78500-78999!cars. Working on a model and trying to determine if the ends were repainted brown or black.

Brian J. Carlson

Re: 0.6mm plywood

Eric Mumper
 

Dennis,

You are of course correct on the dimensions and I might end up looking for 1/64".  Durability and resistance to warping were my primary concerns for using the thicker material plus I can think of other projects that can use the 0.6mm.

Eric Mumper

Cocoa Beach 2020 Cocoa Beach SHAKE N TAKE

Greg Martin
 

Hey Yuze Gize,

Just a reminder that we are going to make a bit of a change to our release scheduling this year and perhaps from here forward.

We will make the official announcement on MONDAY December 2nd, 2019  at 5:30 PM Pacific Time or 8:30 Eastern time.

This years SHAKE N TAKE seminar will be presented by John Berry , hosted by Prototype Rails 2020 at the romantic Cocoa Beach Hilton... Whew, Whew!

John subject this year will be...                 And will hold to our values of Keep It Simple so it doesn't sit on the shelf.

I'll have my own clinic on the ATSF FE-26 boxcar with a simple resin add on sill (shameless plug).

Our S-N-T folks will be sitting in as observers only. Ted Culotta, Schuyler, Jim Singer, John Greedy and myself will be there.

Unfortunately our best friend and presenter Feton Wells will not be present due to some serious health issues, we hold him up in our prayers.

Guidelines are:
  • There are 36 kits and only 36 kits as usual. 
  • You must be present to receive you gratis kit, no exception but for Fenton Wells will receive a kit.
  • There are going to be 10 sign-up slot reserved for registration as usual.
  • 25 online slots available beginning Monday evening.
  • We will reserve and additional 10 spots for those that drop out or are no shows this is in no way a guarantee of a kit
  • If you don't like the subject or will not build the kit don't sign up.
  • If you receive the kit and don't wish to build we ask that you notify myself or Schuyler so we can get it to a person on the reserve list at any time. 
  • First come first serve, please.
I think I forgot mention the subject didn't I.

See you online Monday evening with the details,

Greg Martin 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



Sent from AOL Desktop

--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 

Re: 0.6mm plywood

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Eric,
 
Have you contacted John Hitzeman at American Model Builders/LaserKit to see what he might have available?
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Eric Mumper
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 0.6mm plywood
 
Group,

I should have pointed out that I have already done some Google searching and found the link Jon posted which did not have good solutions for the problem other than ordering hundreds of dollars of stuff from Europe - not my ideal solution.  I'm really hoping somebody knows a laser cutting company or is involved with one that could help with finding the plywood in small amounts.  Thanks.

Eric Mumper

Re: Great Northern Railway Newspaper Ad: Post-War Boxcar Shortage

 

Interesting to note the five day work week was part of the blame for shortage of cars.

Gordon Spalty

Re: Great Northern Railway Newspaper Ad: Post-War Boxcar Shortage

Greg Martin
 

Yuze Gize

Interesting article. The boxcar shortage remained until about 1955, when the economy and boxcar supply changed. The Pennsy adopted the "Don't Stand Me Still " slogan to remind shippers to release empty or loaded cars quicker.

Many railroads were late to the rebuilding processes that began in the 1930's and 1940's and continued to repair and restore cars from the teens and twenties when realistically they should have been rebuilt. You can argue the cost, but you can't argue the strong order files at the car builders. It was a two edged sword and the shippers lost. The conservative nature of the railroads could be painful to shippers. The railroads complaints of a five day work week with shippers and the need for the railroads  to work seven days a week allowed a lot of room for the trucking industry to pilfer the best hauls from the class ones.

For the SP&S in the early 1950's reality set in when the AAR warned of embargo because of the misuse of the car service rules forcing the GN to have cars built for the SP&S. The OE was the most effected during this era.

Post war was a difficult for all industries with material shortages, labor strikes, work rule changes, refocusing on their railroad roles, and so much business that the railroad BOD's focused on taxes, rates and so forth.

I understand the article and it's message, but it was sign of the times and things to come. Reinvestment solves many challenges.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



Sent from AOL Desktop

In a message dated 11/20/2019 5:18:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, chiefbobbb@... writes:

Great Northern Railway Newspaper Ad: Post-War Boxcar Shortage

A link to an advertisement placed in the Minneapolis Moring Tribune, August 26, 1946:

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/31350702/star_tribune/

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin