Date   

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I have some more info on the 65 foot gondola CSCO 534... listed under Carnegie Steel Company, it is part of series 526-537 in the Dec 1930 ORER.
 
See info at the link below.
 
 
In particular, “Note A” references these cars and sez “Cars in series 526 to 537 marked C. S. Co., Homestead Works”. The notes further indicate “Make separate reports for cars marked ‘C. S. Co., Homestead Works’ to Wm. Donald, Auditor, Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. June 1930”
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Claus Schlund
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Photo: NP Reefer 91725

Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...>
 

Disregard the caption, I put in the information for 1st 91725, and it should have been 2nd 91725.

-Hudson


Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Charles Peck
 

If it worked, here is an advertisement for Weed Chains.
If not, here is a link.
Chuck Peck 
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 4:42 PM Lee via groups.io <leetrains=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I’m thinking these may have been chains that had sharpened edges that were dragged behind a tractor or run off a PTO driven propeller under a platform deck.  Would cut the weeds and thicker grasses without disturbing the ground too much and creating a lot of dust. Plus if it hit a rock they didn’t create sparks or bust a typical blade. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 13:10, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

A 1915 photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6891hs0

From the text on the banner I guess those folks in Utah had been using their electric weed-whackers before this car arrived, assuming that earlier they had received a carload of extension cords.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Patrick Wade
 

If you Google weed chains for grass cutting there will be an image of a hub to fit on a weed whacker like device with two lengths of chain extending from the hub. Similar to a medieval flailing weapon. 

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:42 PM Lee via groups.io <leetrains=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I’m thinking these may have been chains that had sharpened edges that were dragged behind a tractor or run off a PTO driven propeller under a platform deck.  Would cut the weeds and thicker grasses without disturbing the ground too much and creating a lot of dust. Plus if it hit a rock they didn’t create sparks or bust a typical blade. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 13:10, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

A 1915 photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6891hs0

From the text on the banner I guess those folks in Utah had been using their electric weed-whackers before this car arrived, assuming that earlier they had received a carload of extension cords.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Lee
 

Hit send before adding the link of a more current version. 






Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 16:42, Lee via groups.io <leetrains@...> wrote:

I’m thinking these may have been chains that had sharpened edges that were dragged behind a tractor or run off a PTO driven propeller under a platform deck.  Would cut the weeds and thicker grasses without disturbing the ground too much and creating a lot of dust. Plus if it hit a rock they didn’t create sparks or bust a typical blade. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 13:10, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

A 1915 photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6891hs0

From the text on the banner I guess those folks in Utah had been using their electric weed-whackers before this car arrived, assuming that earlier they had received a carload of extension cords.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tank Car Placard Locations

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    The reporting marks are clearly present but the placards are another issue. Clearly some have been present 
as the marks from the removal or two above the running board clearly show as does one below the running board.
But tank cars are not my forte so here we go with more questions. When did placard holders first come into general 
use and when were standard locations for placard holders required? This car looks older than any requirements
other than the simple use of warning placards as to the cargo.

    I do have Ed Kaminski's  tank car book bit having arrived yesterday a 100 AM it's going to be awhile before it is 
thoroughly read.

Cordially, Don Valentine



Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Lee
 

I’m thinking these may have been chains that had sharpened edges that were dragged behind a tractor or run off a PTO driven propeller under a platform deck.  Would cut the weeds and thicker grasses without disturbing the ground too much and creating a lot of dust. Plus if it hit a rock they didn’t create sparks or bust a typical blade. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 13:10, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

A 1915 photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6891hs0

From the text on the banner I guess those folks in Utah had been using their electric weed-whackers before this car arrived, assuming that earlier they had received a carload of extension cords.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Seaboard AF-1

Jim King
 

Tony … I produced the SAL B-7 in HO resin and still offer it in S scale.  The HO patterns were sold to Wright Trak Models 8-ish years ago and, I think, are now owned by Greg King at Southbound Model Works.  You can contact Greg by Googling his company name.  The B-7 is the single door version of the AF-1.  Neither car is close to the PRR X31.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


Re: Tank Car Placard Locations

Bruce Smith
 

And on closer examination, UTLX 5274's current placard is pasted onto the tank on not on a placard board, as I had thought.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car Placard Locations
 
This photo dates to a time (1920) where the requirement for placard holds on tank cars was just being phased in.  Prior, just about anything would do, including pasting a paper placard directly onto the tank as seen here. 

The new regs of 1920 required boards that allowed for the placards to be attached in the "diamond" orientation, but that was about it.  With time, the 1927 ARA standards specified the placard bards be in the more towards the middle of the car.  In October of 1932, the standard called for metal-frame holders that the placard could be dropped into.

I've never seen a standard for where the holders on the car ends needed to be, but they seem to be almost universally to the right of center.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CAa


Re: HO Tank Car Walkway Upgrades

Bruce Smith
 

Don,

As Tony has noted... the number and side of dome platforms was an "option" and the purchasers ordered what they want.

But actually, I want to back out here a bit, because I frankly thought that the convention was left side or both. Pondering your assertion of right side only, I've gone looking and I have yet to actually find a photo of a post 1917 car that shows a right side only dome platform. So if you have any of those, please share them with us! Note, that could be a left sided shot without a platform on a car type know to have a platform(s)

Now, if you want weird, in my photos I have a picture of CRTX 8, a two compartment car, with a Standard tank car frame, obviously converted from a single dome car, with the single dome removed and patched and two end dome. The view is of the right side of the car and the dome closest to the B-end has a platform. The dome near the A-end does not. Now, this in no way addresses your question because these platforms were added when the car was rebuilt, but I have to wonder if one or both domes have platforms on the other side?!!

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:30 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO Tank Car Walkway Upgrades
 
Don,

Tony's answer was to both questions 😉

We've discussed this a number of times over the history of the list and it seems that there was some preference for the some platform to be on the left side when there was a single platform, but if you think about it, there would really be no rhyme or reason to how a tank car was delivered to the loading/unloading site, so a single platform car could just as easily have the platform on the "wrong" side as the correct side.

Regards,
Bruce Smith


   So Tony also stated in a private email on the second question,Bruce, but neither of you have yet answered that question. I absolutely agree that unless some tank cars with a single platform were turned for delivery
there is no guarantee that the single platform would always be on the same side once such a car was placed
on the delivery track. BUT....was the choice of which side of the dome the single platform was placed on with respect to the "B" end of the car really left to the buyer or did the builder standardize things so the it was 
always on the left, or always on the right, side of the dome when the car was viewed from the "B" end. Perhaps I didn't ask the question properly the first time but this is what I'm trying to determine.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Tom Madden
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:09 AM, Charles Peck wrote:
Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck
I just googled "weed chains" and got a full page of links for necklaces displaying precious metal replica marijuana leaves......

I suppose "beer garden" wouldn't lead me to information on composting brewery waste, either...

Tom Madden
 


Re: Tank Car Placard Locations

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:46 AM, Dave Parker wrote:
I've never seen a standard for where the holders on the car ends needed to be, but they seem to be almost universally to the right of center.
Which would make sense, since left of center on the B end would put it in the way of operating the hand brake, so it appears the B end placement was followed on both ends.

Dennis Storzek


Re: HO Tank Car Walkway Upgrades

Tony Thompson
 

DonValentine wrote:

BUT....was the choice of which side of the dome the single platform was placed on with respect to the "B" end of the car really left to the buyer or did the builder standardize things so the it was always on the left, or always on the right . . .

    Once again, the buyer specified how they wanted this arranged. The same is true for dome-surrounding walkways. Whether there was one, or just the plank alongside the dome, was entirely a buyer choice.
     I assume the single walkway intention was that an employee had to move to the side of the car with ladder and walkway in order to work around the dome. If that meant crossing to the "other side" relative to where the employee started, well, labor was cheap. Why pay for two?

Tony Thompson




Re: Intermountain news in HO and O scale

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Rob,

I got no tank car kits or RTR, but probably have a couple on the shop sheleves RTR. Shall I list?

All cars subject to prior sale.

here is the RTR reefer list
ART AMERICAN REFRIGERATOR TRANSIT ORANGE WABASH & MISSOURI PACIFIC 1EA
BREX BURLINGTON ORANGE CBQ HERALD 4EA
IC ILLINOIS CENTRAL YELLOW W GREEN STRIPE IC HERALD 1EA
MDT NEW YORK CENTRAL WHITE W RED & BLUE STRIPE NYC HERALD 8EA
NADX HORMEL ORANGE BILLBOARD LETTERING 1EA
NWX CHICAGO & NORTHWESTERN GREEN AND YELLOW CNW HERALD 3EA
PCG PACIFIC COAST GOLD ORANGE PCG HERALD 2EA
PFE PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS ORANGE ORIGINAL HERALDS- UP/SP 2EA
PFE PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS ALUMINUM ALUMINUM 1EA
PFE PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS GREEN EXPRESS 1EA
PURR PROSPECT & UPPER RIDGE OLIVE GREEN #720 1EA
RPRX RATH PACK ORANGE INDIAN HEAD HERALD 1EA
SRLX SWIFT PACKING RED BILLBOARD SWIFT 3EA
URTX DUBUQUE PACK WHITE LARGE HERALD 6EA

And the real deal is Peper Packing reefers, RTR, three cars for $30.00 total.

Here are ther RTR cars from IM. The list, has 4 double door boxcars all ready to run with Kadee couplers and plastic wheels.

The second list is the remaining single door boxcars, ready to run.

As in the past list, all cars are $45.00 each, and IM metal wheels can be added to any purchase for $8.00 per set. These are the entire pre-production, ready to run, cars I received from Intermountain and are from production about 25 years ago.
Contact me off list with your interests. As, was found out in the first listing, some cars sold out very quickly.

DOUBLE DOOR BOXCARS
C&O CHESAPEAKE & OHIO BCR 2EA
C&O CHESAPEAKE & OHIO BCR WITH BLACK DOORS 1EA
UNLETTERED BCR 1EA

single door boxcars
B&M BOSTON & MAINE BCR MINUTEMAN 1EA
C&EI CHICAGO AND EASTERN ILLINOIS BCR BUY WAR BONDS 1EA
CGFX COLUMBIA GEORGE EXPRESS BLUE NMRA 1994 1EA
DLW LACKAWANA BCR PHOEBE SNOW 2EA
DRGW RIO GRANDE WHITE COOKIE BOX 2EA
EJE ELGIN JOLIET & EASTERN GREEN AND ORANGE 2EA
LINDE LINDE GAS BCR 1EA
MEC MAINE CENTRAL GREEN W YELLOW HERALD 4EA
MON MONON GREY 2EA
NH NEW HAVEN BLACK 2EA
NH NEW HAVEN ORANGE 2EA
NP NORTHERN PACIFIC BCR LARGE NOMAND 1EA
NYC NEW YORK CENTRAL-P &LE BCR 2EA
READ READING RR BCR 2EA
SAL SEABOARD AIRLINE BCR COURTESY SERVICE 2EA
SOO SOO LINE BCR BILLBOARD LETTERING 2EA
SP SOUTHERN PACIFIC Pullman GREEN EXPRESS 2EA
SP SOUTHERN PACIFIC BLACK OVERNIGHT SERVICE 2EA
T&P TEXAS AND PACIFIC BCR 4EA
VIR VIRGINIAN BCR 2EA
WM WESTERN MARYLAND BCR SPEED LETTERING 1EA


Here are the Intermountain kits that I received in the warehouse cleansing a few weeks back. Most of these date from the mid 1990's. they are complete as IM packed them 25 years ago, with AB brakes, underframes, side ladders, IM trucks, and the other IM detail parts. the cars are of three types: steel reefers, 2 bay hoppers, and 40' boxcars both single and double door.

Now for a handful of two bay USRA hoppers:
Milwaukee Union Terminal Heritage car #5, one number, several cars $25.00

Now for the 40' steel 1937 boxcars. starting with the double door and then single door cars.
Undecorated DOUBLE DOOR, have 4 models, $35.00

single door cars:
Western Maryland, 4 #'s, BCR $35.00
Texas & Pacific two numbers, 3 cars, BCR $35.00
SP Overnight silver paint 1 car $40.00
Sunset Railroad Heritage #2, one car $35.00
Norfolk Southern ( original NS), 1 car #, 4 models $35.00
NYC pacemaker RED and grey, 2 CAR #'S and 3 MODELS $45.00
Monon grey three car #'s and three models $35.00
Hollywood and Western, heritage #9, 1 car #, 5 models $29.00
GTW blue 1ea $35.00
GM&O, red with winged shield, one # and 5 models $35.00
C&EI as built BCR 2 car #'s, 3 models $35.00
C&EI war bonds slogan, 4#'s and 4 models $35.00

Have fun building a quality kit during these unique times. Order several kits and get an additional discount. I take cash, checks or for credit my processor charges 6%. Also offer curbside pickup for local customers. For none local customers requiring shipping, please provide your address.

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120
847=697-5353


On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 02:10:48 AM CDT, Rob & Bev Manley <robev1630@...> wrote:


Ted,
Of course, I'm interrested in the O Scale. Did you get any tank cars?
That Peper offer does sound good.

Rob Manley
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"



Photo: NP Reefer 91725

Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...>
 
Edited

NP Reefer 91725

Three doors no waiting.

-Hudson


Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

CJ Riley
 


It was reported there is a Homestead in Utah where the photo was apparently taken.



Re: Tank Car Placard Locations

Dave Parker
 

This photo dates to a time (1920) where the requirement for placard holds on tank cars was just being phased in.  Prior, just about anything would do, including pasting a paper placard directly onto the tank as seen here. 

The new regs of 1920 required boards that allowed for the placards to be attached in the "diamond" orientation, but that was about it.  With time, the 1927 ARA standards specified the placard bards be in the more towards the middle of the car.  In October of 1932, the standard called for metal-frame holders that the placard could be dropped into.

I've never seen a standard for where the holders on the car ends needed to be, but they seem to be almost universally to the right of center.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CAa


Re: Photo: UP Boxcar 74227

mopacfirst
 

While we're on the subject of sealing, someone asked about the taping of doors last week.  I didn't immediately think of duct tape (duck tape), which was actually a WWII invention, but it turns out similar tapes had been available for many years ("by the 1910s").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape

For modeling purposes, I suppose the only reason we'd care is for the typical color(s) of the tape.  I've thought of white Prismacolor pencil, which performs ok on models to simulate graffiti, the fifties kind made with chalk.

In wheat country, that tape and its residue used to be very common on boxcar doors during and after harvest season.

Ron Merrick


Re: HO Tank Car Walkway Upgrades

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Don,

Tony's answer was to both questions 😉

We've discussed this a number of times over the history of the list and it seems that there was some preference for the some platform to be on the left side when there was a single platform, but if you think about it, there would really be no rhyme or reason to how a tank car was delivered to the loading/unloading site, so a single platform car could just as easily have the platform on the "wrong" side as the correct side.

Regards,
Bruce Smith


   So Tony also stated in a private email on the second question,Bruce, but neither of you have yet answered that question. I absolutely agree that unless some tank cars with a single platform were turned for delivery
there is no guarantee that the single platform would always be on the same side once such a car was placed
on the delivery track. BUT....was the choice of which side of the dome the single platform was placed on with respect to the "B" end of the car really left to the buyer or did the builder standardize things so the it was 
always on the left, or always on the right, side of the dome when the car was viewed from the "B" end. Perhaps I didn't ask the question properly the first time but this is what I'm trying to determine.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Tank Car Placard Locations

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 09:40 AM, Ted Schnepf wrote:
there are no reporting marks on the car. They must be inplant storage only.
I see the UTLX, just above the number, which has been stenciled on a paint patch. We had a long discussion a couple months ago on the effect of orthochromatic film on certain colors, and the Union Tank Line scheme was one where the lettering seems to disappear. Note how difficult the lettering is to see on the car to the right, but no evidence of paint patches on that car.

Dennis Storzek

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