Date   

Re: >Early EMD SC or SW Switcher - was New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Donald B. Valentine
 

Thanks Bob & Tim,

    Never having seen a top down view of one of these critters before I had no idea that the exhaust
stacks were actually located off center. With the dating you have provided the style of vents makes
a lot more sense.

Thanks again, Don Valentine


Southwest Scale Productions Doors

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I am trying to further document the selection of Dan Hall's SSP doors.  I would like to have a picture of the number 610, the 5-5-5 wide-seam "Overland" door.  Just the unfinished door, if possible.  Here is what I am using for the #612
 
 
so something like that would be helpful, if you have one or could take one like this, I would appreciated.
 
Please contact me off-list at shile (at) mindspring (dot) com.
 
Thanks,
Steve Hile


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Todd Sullivan
 

Tim,

Thanks, those are great photos and they show exactly what I was trying to describe!  There's one other photo I know about that is in one of the small softcover Anthracite railroad books.  It shows an overhead view of the CNJ yard on the Lehigh River with 3 SLRX reefers.  Since all my Eastern RR books are in storage elsewhere, I can't check.

Thanks again!

Todd Sullivan


Re: Anyone Want A First Generation SFRD Mechanical Reefer?

Tim O'Connor
 


This poll reminds me of practically the same poll taken some time ago, asking us
which early Santa Fe mechanical we wanted. I think I voted for the "weird" cars -
the Santa Fe built some cars with 52 ft or 54 ft length, not like anyone else's.

Different length cars must have made warehouse owners really happy trying to get
a string of cars parked in front of their loading doors! :-D

IMO this will never happen unless someone does it in resin or 3-D.

Tim O'Connor



On 4/4/2020 2:29 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Anyone Want A First Generation SFRD Mechanical Reefer?

I am good friends with a person working for a major model manufacturer. His area of expertise is product development.

For years he and I have been discussing the possibility of bringing to market an accurate HO scale first generation SFRD mechanical refrigerator car. The cut-off year would be 1960.

The car would be produced in styrene and probably only in R-T-R form.

From our discussions this project almost came to fruition a few years ago but stalled due to competition from other projects.  

Times have changed and now this has become a real possibility.

There are "foobie" cars offered by Athearn and Walthers, but I share a belief with others that there is a market for a more accurate car.

First, I want to hear from you which first generation mechanical reefer is of most interest to you and specifically why you are interested in a particular car.

Your choices are the following SFRD classes:

Rr-31 (5 cars - 1955)

Rr-54 (30 cars - 1953

Rr-56 (150 cars -1955)

Rr-60 (25 Cars - 1958

Rr-61 (25 Cars - 1958)

Rr-65 (100 cars - 1960)

Rr-66 (100 cars - 1960)

I'm fairly certain there are builder's drawings of all these classes but that will need to be verified.

Factors influencing the manufacturer's decision will be how many paint/repaint schemes are possible (including MOW), and cost of modifying the tooling to produce insulated boxcar versions and cars representing other railroads.

Once the manufacturer selects one of these choices I will ask you to submit your photos, especially those with dates, so the manufacturer can evaluate paint schemes and modifications to the as-built prototype.

If there is enough good prototype information available there is a real probability a specific car will be produced.

Thank you.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Anyone Want A First Generation SFRD Mechanical Reefer?

Scott Kremer
 

I have been talking to various manufacturers for years to try to get anyone to build a first generation mechanical reefer. I model GN/WFEX but I will take anything. The Rr-56 seems to me to be the obvious choice. Not only is it the biggest lot but to those of us that try to stay true a time frame It is the earliest large lot. That means that anyone modeling after 1954 can use the car. if you pick a later date I am out as I model October ,1955. Earlier would also be OK. This would be great.

Thanks,

Scott Kremer


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 


It's an EMD SC or SW (not sure which, only difference is the frame),
and that's how they were built (over 100 were built)


On 4/4/2020 1:44 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:
Say Tim, What in the world do the MOP do to that EMD switcher that moved the exhaust stacks off to the
left side and radically changed the roof vents ahead f them as well? Talk abut the Rock Island's Christine,
this is quite a rebuild!

Cordially, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Anyone Want A First Generation SFRD Mechanical Reefer?

Bob Chaparro
 

Anyone Want A First Generation SFRD Mechanical Reefer?

I am good friends with a person working for a major model manufacturer. His area of expertise is product development.

For years he and I have been discussing the possibility of bringing to market an accurate HO scale first generation SFRD mechanical refrigerator car. The cut-off year would be 1960.

The car would be produced in styrene and probably only in R-T-R form.

From our discussions this project almost came to fruition a few years ago but stalled due to competition from other projects.  

Times have changed and now this has become a real possibility.

There are "foobie" cars offered by Athearn and Walthers, but I share a belief with others that there is a market for a more accurate car.

First, I want to hear from you which first generation mechanical reefer is of most interest to you and specifically why you are interested in a particular car.

Your choices are the following SFRD classes:

Rr-31 (5 cars - 1955)

Rr-54 (30 cars - 1953

Rr-56 (150 cars -1955)

Rr-60 (25 Cars - 1958

Rr-61 (25 Cars - 1958)

Rr-65 (100 cars - 1960)

Rr-66 (100 cars - 1960)

I'm fairly certain there are builder's drawings of all these classes but that will need to be verified.

Factors influencing the manufacturer's decision will be how many paint/repaint schemes are possible (including MOW), and cost of modifying the tooling to produce insulated boxcar versions and cars representing other railroads.

Once the manufacturer selects one of these choices I will ask you to submit your photos, especially those with dates, so the manufacturer can evaluate paint schemes and modifications to the as-built prototype.

If there is enough good prototype information available there is a real probability a specific car will be produced.

Thank you.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

steve_wintner
 

High quality castings for aircraft engines are usually "investment cast" which is pretty much lost wax by another name. A variety of materials can be used - wax, plastic, stereo lithography or other 3d printed resins. Burn them / melt them out, then pour - under vacuum for highest quality. The plasters used withstand very high heat, so high melting point plastic is irrelevant as long as it burns out leaving no ash behind.  All metals shrink when they solidify, but it's only a few percent. Depending on how it's done, the wax may shrink too. .97*.97 = still only a little bit. If you are making aircraft engines, that few percent matters. 

Aside from jewelry, model railroad gubbins, and aircraft engines, there are cheaper processes for most applications.

Steve



Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Randy Hees
 

One thought... While AB control valve portions are going to be about the same size...  noting that some current portions (there are three parts to a AB control valve, the pipe bracket, the service portion and the emergency portion), The pipe bracket hasn't changed... but some [portions have gotten larger... requiring longer mounting studs...    and there are lots of sizes of brake cylinders... you match them to the car's weight....  So the cylinder on a caboose is much smaller than on a 40 or 50 ton box car, with cylinders for a 70 or 100 ton car much larger...  I am not sure about reservoir size...   

In the era for this list, probably only two common sizes... one for the typical 40 or 50 ton freight car, and one for cabooses... 

Randy Hees


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 10:36 AM, Ralph W. Brown wrote:
My understanding is that the sacrificial material used to make the molds for casting is, as the name of the process implies, wax, which melts and is absorbed by the mold when it is first heated leaving the void later filled with molten brass or other casting metal. 
Wax was used when the masters were being "spin" cast in rubber molds. For higher production numbers the masters are injection molded from styrene. Precision scale Co. plastic parts are the same; investment casting masters sold as parts. Come to think of it, Grandt Line once sold their parts in brass, also.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Tim O'Connor
 



Thanks Drew for the clarification. I'd love to see this done. It seems to be an
almost forgotten art at least for HO models.


On 4/4/2020 11:35 AM, Drew wrote:
Tim,
   I worked in a prototype model during my high school years. We used lost wax a few times. First a master is made and a mold made off that master, the mold was usually RTV rubber. Wax was poured in to that mold to make a second master which did shrink a bit. That wax master was then placed in foundry sand and hot metal poured in to the sand mold. The wax melted/vaporized and metal took its place, hence the name lost wax. It's been 20 years since I last did that but I do recall there was a bit of shrinkage in each step.

Drew Marshall in Philly, PA

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp
On Apr 4, 2020, at 09:15, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: CB&Q 110193 Truss Rod boxcar

O Fenton Wells
 

Excellent Bill, thanks for sharing
Fenton

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 12:30 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
CB&Q 110193 Truss Rod boxcar is a Westerfield kit. My modeling date is Oct. 1955 and by then these were probably all gone but I occasionally cheat and so the car has a re-weigh date in 1952. The underframe has not been glued as yet so the body is not yet sitting firmly nested on the U/F. I have also not yet attached the brake wheel. To help keep the turnbuckles taught as well as provide more comfort for someone "riding the rods" a wood plank has been lodged through the four turnbuckles on each side of the underframe. The scratch built Running Board and Latitudinals will receive replacement boards after sandpaper is used to peel some paint up.

Bill Welch



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Bob Webber
 

Not much to that - the vents are as delivered as are the stack locations. 

Early SC switcher, if I recall correctly. Winton powered.


At 12:44 PM 4/4/2020, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:
Say Tim, What in the world do the MOP do to that EMD switcher that moved the exhaust stacks off to the
left side and radically changed the roof vents ahead f them as well? Talk abut the Rock Island's Christine,
this is quite a rebuild!

Cordially, Don Valentine

Bob Webber


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Schuyler Larrabee
 

GREAT photos for weathering, Tim.

Thanks.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer


My favorite roof shots of Swift reefers.


On 4/3/2020 10:19 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:
The Swift cars had BCR roofs, including the red cars. Obviously they
weathered to streaky gray and red. I’ll defer to others on the silver,
at least for the wood sided cars.


On Apr 3, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io
<sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Brian,

Nice catch. My Rapido reefers are in storage in Syracuse, so I'd
better make a note to check the SRLX car when we are reunited. I'll
also check my Sunshine kit that is painted but not assembled. Hmmm,
maybe I should dig it out and finish it during this corona virus lull.

Fun story: Tony Koester had 26 of those red Atlas reefers, and Atlas
only produced about 6 numbers. As occasional yardmaster in
Frankfort's eastbound yard, I got awfully tired of seeing numbers
repeat in a cut of Swift reefers from Kansas City. So, I offered to
rework them a bit and renumber them, working in batches of 4-5 cars.
The next operating session, Tony presented me with a box with all 26
(!) along with some dry transfer numbers that were exactly right for
the Atlas lettering. The dry transfers didn't work very well, and I
decided it was easier to hand re-letter the cars. I found that any
of the numbers 0, 6 and 9, could be easily transformed into another
of those numbers, and the same for 3, 6 and 8, so that's how they got
renumbered. I tried using decals for the journal repack data, and
the first car took about 2.5 hours to get the decals settled into the
scribed siding on both sides. Nope, that wasn't going to work,
either, so I faked the RPKD data with tiny dabs of white paint. It
works with the 2 foot rule - no one has mentioned that it isn't
legible, and I still use the technique on my models!

Todd Sullivan

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ralph, I believe that lost “was” is, except for unique individual items made by artists casing in silver or gold, no longer used for mass production of parts like model railroad brake gear.  That has become a “lost plastic” process, where many plastic parts are glued together in a “tree< which is then inserted into a can of wet plaster.  When dry the plaster cylinder is heated to get the plastic to run out, and then brass is poured into the middle of a spin casting machine, which forces by centrifugal force, the metal into all the voids in the plaster cylinder.  After cooling (and shrinking) the plaster is broken away and the parts harvested.

 

I presume that the plastic used has a lower melting temperature than that used for injected molded parts from metal dies.

 

I have received lost plastic parts that still have plaster on them.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 1:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype

 

Hi Tim,

 

My understanding is that the sacrificial material used to make the molds for casting is, as the name of the process implies, wax, which melts and is absorbed by the mold when it is first heated leaving the void later filled with molten brass or other casting metal.  I doubt plastic detail parts made by Cal-Scale or others would or could preform the same function, although I suppose they could be used as “masters” for casting the sacrificial wax patterns, copyright issues notwithstanding.

 

I suspect there are others here who are more familiar with the process and could provide a more detailed description of the process.

 

Pax,

 

 

Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

 

From: Tim O'Connor

Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:15 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype

 


As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Donald B. Valentine
 

Say Tim, What in the world do the MOP do to that EMD switcher that moved the exhaust stacks off to the
left side and radically changed the roof vents ahead f them as well? Talk abut the Rock Island's Christine,
this is quite a rebuild!

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Tim,
 
My understanding is that the sacrificial material used to make the molds for casting is, as the name of the process implies, wax, which melts and is absorbed by the mold when it is first heated leaving the void later filled with molten brass or other casting metal.  I doubt plastic detail parts made by Cal-Scale or others would or could preform the same function, although I suppose they could be used as “masters” for casting the sacrificial wax patterns, copyright issues notwithstanding.
 
I suspect there are others here who are more familiar with the process and could provide a more detailed description of the process.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype
 

As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tim, I believe you’re correct about this process.  I’ll have to look at the information on Lester’s blog and measure a few things.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 9:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype

 


As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Jim Hayes
 

Lester, I read your review of brake equipment sizes and the following one on the SF boxcar and was impressed by both. I should read your blog more often.

JimH


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Eric Hansmann
 

FYI, I saw three or four of the original run at Chuck’s Depot in Marion, IL, last fall on the return trip from RPM Chicagoland. I do not recall the price, road numbers, or company names. I suspect he is open since he lives upstairs.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

 

New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

From the Rapido website: "Rapido is pleased to announce a new production run of our HO scale General American 37’ meat refrigerator car! It has been quite a while since we’ve offered these popular cars for sale, and it’s about time that we did some more! We are offering new road numbers on some of the most popular schemes from the earlier runs, as well as an all-new HO release."

https://rapidotrains.com/products/ho-scale/freight-cars/ho-scale-37-general-american-garx-reefer

These are available in multiple road numbers for:

American Stores

Armour

Cudahy

Dubuque

GARX Refrigerator

Hormel

Kingan

Morris Rifkin

Oscar Meyer

Swift (Red Block, Red Billboard & War Bonds)

URTX Refrigerator

Undecorated

I have no idea whether all of these variants are accurate for prototype cars, however.

I have no financial connection to Rapido.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA