Date   

Re: Meat reefers

Brian Carlson
 

They are around at shows all the time. Picked one up in October 2019. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 9, 2020, at 8:42 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

I don’t think the Red Caboose Mather reefers have been produced for almost a decade. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Apr 9, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

   I was about to point out that Morrell used a LOT of Mather meat reefers and Red Caboose has offered one for some
years that seems to match many photos fairly well. BUT these are 36 ft. reefers. Didn't Morrell also use some 40 ft.
Mather cars as well? I've got a foot of file cabinet space o this stuff gong back 20 years as Doug Harding is aware. Need 
to find some time to dig into it. Incidentally the meat packers that were most helpful in offereing info on tier rail operations
and equipment in that period were Hormel and Oscar Mayer, othof which were quite helpful.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Meat reefers

Eric Hansmann
 

I don’t think the Red Caboose Mather reefers have been produced for almost a decade. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Apr 9, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

   I was about to point out that Morrell used a LOT of Mather meat reefers and Red Caboose has offered one for some
years that seems to match many photos fairly well. BUT these are 36 ft. reefers. Didn't Morrell also use some 40 ft.
Mather cars as well? I've got a foot of file cabinet space o this stuff gong back 20 years as Doug Harding is aware. Need 
to find some time to dig into it. Incidentally the meat packers that were most helpful in offereing info on tier rail operations
and equipment in that period were Hormel and Oscar Mayer, othof which were quite helpful.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Inverse ends

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Is anyone making inverse ends, specifically inverse dreadnaught and/or inverse Hutchins ends?

 

There are a few cars that I have long wanted to model that require such ends, but AFAIK they have not been made.  But with the small shops that make resin parts, I may have missed them.

 

Thanks for any help on this.

 

Schuyler

 

 


Re: Meat reefers

william darnaby
 

There are 5 photos of Morrell 40ft Mather reefers in the Refrigerator Car Color Guide by Morning Sun.  If you model reefers you really need this book.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:22 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

   I was about to point out that Morrell used a LOT of Mather meat reefers and Red Caboose has offered one for some

years that seems to match many photos fairly well. BUT these are 36 ft. reefers. Didn't Morrell also use some 40 ft.

Mather cars as well? I've got a foot of file cabinet space o this stuff gong back 20 years as Doug Harding is aware. Need 

to find some time to dig into it. Incidentally the meat packers that were most helpful in offereing info on tier rail operations

and equipment in that period were Hormel and Oscar Mayer, othof which were quite helpful.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Meat reefers

Donald B. Valentine
 

   I was about to point out that Morrell used a LOT of Mather meat reefers and Red Caboose has offered one for some
years that seems to match many photos fairly well. BUT these are 36 ft. reefers. Didn't Morrell also use some 40 ft.
Mather cars as well? I've got a foot of file cabinet space o this stuff gong back 20 years as Doug Harding is aware. Need 
to find some time to dig into it. Incidentally the meat packers that were most helpful in offereing info on tier rail operations
and equipment in that period were Hormel and Oscar Mayer, othof which were quite helpful.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Pittsburgh photos

David Soderblom
 

I knew, absolutely KNEW, somebody would nit me on that.  About as life-threatening as getting the journal box cover misidentified.  Let’s just agree on Eastern something, with the onion domes.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@..., 410-338-4543






Re: Meat reefers

Dennis Storzek
 

It's photos like this that makes one wonder if the ends initially remained FCR, same as the roof. I know dirty red can be mistaken for FC color, but the white lettering and fascia don't look all that dirty.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Pittsburgh photos

Tony Thompson
 

David Soderblom wrote:

Thanks so much; there are so many scenes that beg to be simulated in scale.  I wouldn’t care to do the Russian Orthodox church

    I agree with the modelability, David, but IIRC that's a Greek Orthodox church. One of the Pittsburghers on the list can correct me if that's wrong.

Tony Thompson




Pittsburgh photos

David Soderblom
 

Thanks so much; there are so many scenes that beg to be simulated in scale.  I wouldn’t care to do the Russian Orthodox church, but there are all those lovely details: the combination of concrete and stone walls; the general grunge; the excavation in the brick-paved street; the (almost) 3-way street turnout, but not with girder rail; the riverside scenes.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@..., 410-338-4543






Re: Freight car roofs, 1959

Tom Madden
 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 01:10 PM, D. Scott Chatfield wrote:
Interesting view of a yard in California in 1959.  Note that Brock's Law is in force....
 
Have been systematically scanning my slides going back to 1968. Here's one from September 1962, stopped for a passing CB&Q freight in Edgemont SD on our way from the Black Hills to Colorado and just had to take a photo from the car window. Sure enough, a round roof NP auto car just made it into the frame at the right edge. Brock's Law prevails!

Tom Madden
 
 


Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

ed_mines
 

My recollection is that the car was a one-of-a-kind with experimental sides. Can't remember how I know this. I've seen this photo or a similar one several times before, maybe in a CBC or Trainshed


Re: Meat reefers

Nelson Moyer
 

Those stock cars of hogs answered the question about livestock in meat trains, and the FGEX produce reefer means that those trains weren’t all meat. I’ll check out the Red Caboose model. All this is very helpful.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 2:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Nelson,

Doug Harding can answer this question better. Morrell did daily (except Sunday) slaughter of cattle, hogs and sheep. And besides hanging sides of such, they also had packaged meats, dog food (Red Heart), hides (which were a high tariff commodity), canned meats, etc. I found a postcard that claimed Morrell could slaughter 2 million head of livestock a year in Ottumwa. So that would be almost 6,900 head a day. So how many cars that translates to someone more knowledgeable than I will need to say.

Looking at some 1959 CB&Q switchlists that Russ Strotz posted on the Railway Bull Shippers list about 10 years ago, it appears on average 7 MORX reefers were forwarded to the IHB at Congress Park each day. How many went to Chicago proper or went to Peoria for forwarding is unknown. Attached is a July 31 1959 consist of 1st LC departing Galesburg for Clyde yard. Also set outs for April 5 1959 at Congress Park. It was an active interchange.

Take a look for the Red Caboose Morrell Mather reefer.

Bill Hirt

On 4/9/2020 1:40 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Thanks, Bill. I’ve been collecting meat reefers to model these trains, but I only have one Morrell reefer so far. It was built from the old Sunshine kit. It sounds like I need at least nine more for the Morrell traffic. I was hoping someone had a wheel report for one of those trains to see if they had stock cars or general merchandise to fill out a train. It’s hard to believe that Morrell could generate 50-70 cars per day during the week.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know.

The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am.

The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm.

The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm.

The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm.

On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up.

Bill Hirt

On_._,_


Re: Freight car roofs, 1959

Jack Mullen
 

Seriously, $79.99 ?!?

But I do like the deteriorated and patched flatcar deck in the fg.

Jack Mullen


Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

mopacfirst
 

I don't know anything about this car specifically.  But I went back and looked carefully at it, and the vertical ribs appear to be equally spaced in each panel.  If they're really there, perhaps it was an experiment to stiffen each panel.  Exactly what problem this was supposed to solve is not obvious.

The artifacts on the roof could actually be rooflines of a building that weren't cropped out.  And the 'box' near the rear truck, I believe is a panel that some railroads had installed in front of the triple valve to protect it from damage.

I remain eagerly awaiting hearing from anyone who has actual knowledge of this experiment.

Ron Merrick


Re: Meat reefers

 


Re: Meat reefers

William Hirt
 

Nelson,

Doug Harding can answer this question better. Morrell did daily (except Sunday) slaughter of cattle, hogs and sheep. And besides hanging sides of such, they also had packaged meats, dog food (Red Heart), hides (which were a high tariff commodity), canned meats, etc. I found a postcard that claimed Morrell could slaughter 2 million head of livestock a year in Ottumwa. So that would be almost 6,900 head a day. So how many cars that translates to someone more knowledgeable than I will need to say.

Looking at some 1959 CB&Q switchlists that Russ Strotz posted on the Railway Bull Shippers list about 10 years ago, it appears on average 7 MORX reefers were forwarded to the IHB at Congress Park each day. How many went to Chicago proper or went to Peoria for forwarding is unknown. Attached is a July 31 1959 consist of 1st LC departing Galesburg for Clyde yard. Also set outs for April 5 1959 at Congress Park. It was an active interchange.

Take a look for the Red Caboose Morrell Mather reefer.

Bill Hirt

On 4/9/2020 1:40 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Thanks, Bill. I’ve been collecting meat reefers to model these trains, but I only have one Morrell reefer so far. It was built from the old Sunshine kit. It sounds like I need at least nine more for the Morrell traffic. I was hoping someone had a wheel report for one of those trains to see if they had stock cars or general merchandise to fill out a train. It’s hard to believe that Morrell could generate 50-70 cars per day during the week.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know.

The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am.

The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm.

The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm.

The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm.

On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up.

Bill Hirt

On_._,_


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

CJ Riley
 

I see the roof of Levenson Steel poking up. I worked there for a few weeks in the early 60s painting steel for I-7 in eastern Ohio. I was transferred there following 2months doing the same job at their McKees Rocks facility in the leased former Pressed Steel Car plant. Even got to load over length girders in mill gone for a bit. 




Re: Meat reefers

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Nelson,

Your are correct in that that one plant could not produce 50 loads in one day. Keep in mind the Milwaukee, RI, and Wabash also got a few loads of meat in Ottumwa. Off course the plant also produced tank cars of tallow and cars of hides. And then I am certain the train was filled with other priority cars going eastbound.

As I understand the packing industry Monday was a slow shipping day, and then at the end of the week Friday and Saturday the output increased.

I also have a shortage of Morrell reefers, in my case out of Sioux Falls.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Thursday, April 9, 2020, 01:40:22 PM CDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


Thanks, Bill. I’ve been collecting meat reefers to model these trains, but I only have one Morrell reefer so far. It was built from the old Sunshine kit. It sounds like I need at least nine more for the Morrell traffic. I was hoping someone had a wheel report for one of those trains to see if they had stock cars or general merchandise to fill out a train. It’s hard to believe that Morrell could generate 50-70 cars per day during the week.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know.

The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am.

The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm.

The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm.

The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm.

On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up.

Bill Hirt


Freight car roofs, 1959

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Interesting view of a yard in California in 1959.  Note that Brock's Law is in force....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/UP-Union-Pacific-New-York-Central-Car-in-California-in-1959-Original-Slide-e3b/324108985085

Scott Chatfield


Re: Meat reefers

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Bill. I’ve been collecting meat reefers to model these trains, but I only have one Morrell reefer so far. It was built from the old Sunshine kit. It sounds like I need at least nine more for the Morrell traffic. I was hoping someone had a wheel report for one of those trains to see if they had stock cars or general merchandise to fill out a train. It’s hard to believe that Morrell could generate 50-70 cars per day during the week.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know.

The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am.

The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm.

The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm.

The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm.

On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 5:36 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

How many cars per train on average, and were trains dispatched both the East and West on different days? Were they solid blocks of Morrell cars? Where they strictly meat trains or did they include other freight or livestock? I knew about the Morrell plant in Ottumwa, and I’d like to model the Morrell train through Burlington on the way to Galesburg and points East.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 10:30 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_