1. main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
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Re: Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

Bill Decker
 

Nolan,

The "Spruce" in Spruce Goose actually is not Spruce.  It is Canadian pine.  That bird rests within five miles of where I am typing this.....  

Beyond that, the US Army Spruce Division was a World War One phenomena.  Airplanes of that era were built of wood.  WW2 saw a few wood aircraft, most notably the British Mosquito.  Howard Hughes Spruce Goose attempted to tap into the use of wood, as well.

Back to the wood chips coming out of Toledo Oregon in the mid-late 1950s.  A further check with local sources indicates the Georgia-Pacific pulp and paper mill at Toledo opened in 1958, obviously after the earlier referenced photo.  That makes shipping wood chips out of Toledo a brief phenomena of 1957 and part of 1958.  Thereafter, it was long strings of wood chip cars going out to Toledo on the Oregon Coast, passing through the middle of Corvallis (my home town) on their way.  As noted previously, all of this took place after SP steam dropped its fires, although G-P may well have had their steam locomotive still working out at the mill at Toledo.

Bill Deckder
McMinnville, Oregon
SP drop_bottom_gon and an SP flat

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Zoom in to see an SP drop_bottom_gon and an SP flat with lumber loads. Road numbers can be made out on these both
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
Re: Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

Richard Townsend
 

The SpruceGoose is at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, Oregon. It is in excellent shape and on public display in this excellent museum.


On Jun 3, 2020, at 7:37 AM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


    The US Army had a number of sources for the quality of spruce needed for the Spads and other planes built 
for use in The Great War. To my knowledge all were sold in the 1920's but I don't know about the various forest 
reserves. Lots of spruce and other commodities were moved by rail to the various aircraft assembly plants during 
WW I. The Stearman, later Boeing, PT-17 biplane trainer also used a lot of spruce. The fuselage frame is
largely of tubular metal construction but the wings are another story, being largely fabric covered spruce that 
are constructed like a Guillow's model airplanes and then, like the paper covering of the models, is coated with 
dope. Neat aircraft, The molder for the NERS #250 A/C Duct kit, which is a tricky mold to run, has two of the 
them nearby and I never turn down an offer for a flight. There are usually a number of them at the Mid-Atlantic
Air Show in Reading, PA that was supposed to have been this weekend but has tentatively been rescheduled 
for 31 July and 1 & 2 August where rides can be purchased.

    Where is Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose" now? That thing needs to be reconditioned and flown to Dulles for
permanent display at the Smithsonian Aircraft Museum there.  The museum is well worth a visit for anyone
with a modicum of interest in older aircraft especially with no admission charge.

My best, Don Valentine
Re: Some more good images

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Speaking of watermelon cars did someone other than Sunshine Models offer an ACL Class O-17 as an HO kit? I've not had much luck finding one at a 'reasonable' price from an source."

Ambroid or AHM.  Pick your poison.


Ben Hom
Re: a bad day for LV 32607

Schuyler Larrabee
 

It always surprises me in photos like this that the brake rods to the trucks manage to stay attached.

 

Elden, there’s some damage to the corner, but I’d say the fact that the lengthwise arc to the car body is more serious than the damage to the corner.

 

Also interesting is the streetcar in the photo.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 8:51 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] a bad day for LV 32607

 

https://digital.library.temple.edu/digital/collection/p15037coll3/id/67204/rec/8

 

with serious damage to corner of car

 

Elden Gatwood
Re: Some more good images

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Love the ACL ventilated boxcar in Portland, OR , Claus!

Speaking of watermelon cars did someone other than Sunshine Models
offer an ACL Class O-17 as an HO kit? I've not had much luck finding
one at a "reasonable" price from an source/

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: WCF&N box cars

Bruce Smith
 

Clark,

It looks like they have interchange data, lower left. The photo quality is such that it is hard to see!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 9:36 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] WCF&N box cars
 
Attached an interesting photo courtesy of Ron Christensen of WCF&N box cars. They appear to be USRA cars? They also don't appear to have the necessary data for interchange?
CW Propst 

Re: Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    The US Army had a number of sources for the quality of spruce needed for the Spads and other planes built 
for use in The Great War. To my knowledge all were sold in the 1920's but I don't know about the various forest 
reserves. Lots of spruce and other commodities were moved by rail to the various aircraft assembly plants during 
WW I. The Stearman, later Boeing, PT-17 biplane trainer also used a lot of spruce. The fuselage frame is
largely of tubular metal construction but the wings are another story, being largely fabric covered spruce that 
are constructed like a Guillow's model airplanes and then, like the paper covering of the models, is coated with 
dope. Neat aircraft, The molder for the NERS #250 A/C Duct kit, which is a tricky mold to run, has two of the 
them nearby and I never turn down an offer for a flight. There are usually a number of them at the Mid-Atlantic
Air Show in Reading, PA that was supposed to have been this weekend but has tentatively been rescheduled 
for 31 July and 1 & 2 August where rides can be purchased.

    Where is Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose" now? That thing needs to be reconditioned and flown to Dulles for
permanent display at the Smithsonian Aircraft Museum there.  The museum is well worth a visit for anyone
with a modicum of interest in older aircraft especially with no admission charge.

My best, Don Valentine
WCF&N box cars

Clark Propst
 

Attached an interesting photo courtesy of Ron Christensen of WCF&N box cars. They appear to be USRA cars? They also don't appear to have the necessary data for interchange?
CW Propst 
a bad day for LV 32607

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

https://digital.library.temple.edu/digital/collection/p15037coll3/id/67204/rec/8

 

with serious damage to corner of car

 

Elden Gatwood
Re: Photo: "Elk" Boxcar

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Look at the extra height added to the stock pen fence to make sure the elk didn't clear it. 
An elk farm here in Vermont used and eight foot fence for that reason.

My best, Don Valentine
Re: Paint Booth

Jim Hayes
 

It depends. I use only Vallejo and I found a nice one on Ebay that folds up into a small case. With Vallejo I can use it indoors with only an open window behind it. I'm not a heavy user and it serves my needs well. I'm not near it so I can't tell you the brand but it was well under $100.

JimH

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:32 PM Dan <baltimoret4a5661@...> wrote:
Looking to purchase a new painting booth.  Any recommendations would be helpful.

Thanks,

Dan

Some more good images

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Some more good images from this site...
 
ML&T flat
 
SFRD reefer with map
 
Great boxcars, no date, but I would say early 1920s
 
PRR class GR gondola
 
Great string of SP gondolas with lumber loads
 
PFE reefer builders photos dated 1920
 
MP boxcar
 
SP flat with bulldozer load
 
Yard with lots of great cars,possibly very early 1920s or even earlier...
 
UP 33ft box
 
NP and SP boxcars
 
Boxcars and reefers
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Re: Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

Todd Sullivan
 

The Spruce Division was part of the U.S.'s WWI effort to increase war material production.  In those days, aircraft were made mostly of wood (spruce) and fabric.  That's where the majority of the spruce production went. There's a chapter in "Railroads in the Woods" that has photos and a discussion of the Spruce Division,its woods railroads and mills.

Todd Sullivan
Re: Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

Richard Townsend
 

The Spruce Goose was made of birch plywood, not spruce. The spruce originally was used for WWI airplanes.

On Jun 2, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Nolan Hinshaw via groups.io <cearnog=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

On Jun 2, 2020, at 16:32, Bill Decker <sp.billd@att.net> wrote:

[...]

At this point, the Toledo mill, a former US Army Spruce Division mill
... as in Goose? I've been wondering (idly) where the wood for that project got milled.
Re: C&O Bunk Cars and Jordan Spreader

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Tony,

In a word "no". That would have required going onto railroad property. Even back in the 1980s, the Chessie System and the Southern was really tight about trespassing, and they were prosecuting for it, especially around Charlottesville where UVA students had dozens of shortcuts across Chessie and Southern tracks. Around that time they got a really strict railroad trespass law passed by the General Assembly. I stayed on public property or asked permission. (Just as the Charlottesville yard was being downsized, I got permission to walk the now largely empty tracks to shoot every crane, rack and structure that was still standing. I suspect now that the person who gave me permission could have been fired.)

Even had I tried, the lack of a fill flash would have made for some pretty poor photos on the shadow side.

Yours Aye,


Garth  🦆

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:04 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
    Thanks for these, Garth. The bunk cars are really interesting, and your shots are very clear and definitive. Did you by any chance see the opposite sides? were they the same?

Tony Thompson
Re: Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jun 2, 2020, at 16:32, Bill Decker <sp.billd@att.net> wrote:

[...]

At this point, the Toledo mill, a former US Army Spruce Division mill
... as in Goose? I've been wondering (idly) where the wood for that project got milled.
Re: Are these cars being loaded with sawdust?

Bill Decker
 

Claus,

Definitely wood chips.  At that point in the 1950s (1958), Georgia Pacific was shipping wood chips from the mill at Toledo, Oregon.  GP purchased the Toledo mill from C.D. Johnson in 1956.  I just spotted a picture of the first outbound load of wood chips from Toledo in a 1957 photo in "Forest Rails, Georgia-Pacific's Railroads."  That picture has SP 350477, a G-50-20-A, a composite GS gon with early chip extensions---the ones with an inboard-slanted top.   At this point, the Toledo mill, a former US Army Spruce Division mill sold in the 1920s to CD Johnson was strictly a lumber mill.  

Sometime later (date TBD), a pulp and paper mill was added at Toledo--well past the era of our Steam Era list.  That must have been in the 1960's, as I well remember long strings of wood chip gondolas rolling through Corvallis headed out TO Toledo (not from), making for heavy trains to and from Toledo on the Oregon Coast.  That is beyond our list era.  Actually, even the subject photo (1958) and my "first wood chip shipment" photo (1957) are beyond steam, which died on Western Oregon lines of the SP in late 1955.

Bill Decker.
McMinnville, Oregon
Re: C&O Bunk Cars and Jordan Spreader

Tony Thompson
 

    Thanks for these, Garth. The bunk cars are really interesting, and your shots are very clear and definitive. Did you by any chance see the opposite sides? were they the same?

Tony Thompson
C&O Bunk Cars and Jordan Spreader

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Today, I am finishing up presenting photos of C&O MW house cars. This isn't all that I have, but what's left are essentially duplicates of what you've already seen. I have a few C&O open cars, Burro cranes, and tenders coming up, but I'm going to keep them spaced them out a bit. I also have a very few really cool Western Maryland cars that turned up here in Charlottesville, plus some from West Virginia.

I also have a few interesting Southern MW cars coming your way. Since most of what I saw were PS-1s, I will limit what I show to open cars and a couple of really old boxcars.

In today's lot, bunk car 911106 is another of the ex-Hocking Valley auto cars. I think this one has been more recently resided and has a much different window arrangement than the previous tool cars. Also note that it appears the siding has been replaced along the bottom, possibly from rust between the siding and the side frame. I'm not certain where I found this particular car, possibly at Scottsville on the James River line.

940256 is unlike any other C&O MW car I encountered. It appears to be converted from a 50' auto car. Note the car-end man door, and the Allied Full Cushion trucks, which are not original if I'm right about the car's origin. This car was at Clifton Forge.

Jordan spreader 914057 was found in Charlottesville. I was fortunate to be able to get two views of this machine.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆 
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