Date   

Re: Fw: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Steve Salotti
 

Hi Chuck,
I believe the load you are remembering was a cable load made by the Okonite Company in Paterson New Jersey for a cable line on the west coast.  The train was 13 Erie gons, and safety chains were welded between all of the cars.  As you said, it wound in tight circles in each car and then continuously into the next. I remember  it since Okonite was on the NYS&W and I model that plant on my layout (but not that train).
Steve Salotti


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Curt Fortenberry
 

Wood stave pipes are still being used here in Alaska.  It was still available up until recently and may still be in parts of the world. Performs well in old climates.


Curt Fortenberry 


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Tim O'Connor
 

Garth

I don't think the real estate around Taylor or the Bullring-Cornfield yards was
especially dear. I see many modest single family homes - at least in the STMFC era.

I don't think chemical weapons (other than LSD) were being made in California. :-)



On 2/21/2020 3:47 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Tim and Ed,

Two possibilities for the USAX cars:

Many large bases had their own water treatment facilities, which would have used chlorine. They used chlorine for more than just officers' swimming pools.

Even though we weren't supposed to have poison gas the US was still making chemical weapons up until 1969 "just in case". Chlorine was a component of some of these weapons, and maybe others I've never heard of.

Love the photo. I wonder what those rich people living up on the distant hills thought about the view in Taylor Yard's direction. Well, the railroad was there first.
 
Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:52 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Thanks for that roster Ed!

The attached photo may be one of those mysterious USA cars. From the Gerstley duplicates.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/21/2020 1:33 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:
On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Tim,
ACF wasn’t the only builder of cars of this type that were primarily used for chlorine containers. ACF records document the company built approximately 350 "Multi-Unit Tank Cars" from 1924 to 1958 comprised of 87 orders having lot numbers assigned. Roughly half of the cars were built before 1940 with the largest pre-1940 order being 16 cars.

Ten of these cars were built “for stock” for the U.S.A. Chief of Engineers. I don’t know the disposition of these lot 2370 cars built in July 1941. 

Six ACF builder photos of these cars are on the Barriger Flickr web site with 3/4-views & “B” end views of 3 of the earliest cars - lot 10, MALX 365; lot 188, VSX 204; lot 401, GWEX 4?? (angled view hides car number). 

List of ACF M-U tank cars by reporting marks to include the quantity of cars, number of orders, and range of build dates:
ACCX - 10 cars, 4 lots 1926-1935
ACF - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1941 (U.S.A. Chief of Engineers)
BAKX - 2 cars, 2 lots 1931-1932
BCX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1926-1931
CACX (or possibly PPGX) - 21 cars, 2 lots 1936-1937
CALX - 3 cars, 3 lots 1927-1934
CILX (Canada) - 2 cars, 2 lots 1932, 1945
DAX - 23 cars, 11 lots 1928-1946
DUPX - 15 cars, 3 lots 1926-1933
GCX - 26 cars, 1 lot, built 1948
GWEX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1927-1928
HOKX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1925-1926
MALX - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1925
MONX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1932-1936
PSMX - 32 cars, 12 lots 1924-1948
SHPX - 101 cars, 16 lots 1937-1948 (lessees - Westvaco, DuPont, Diamond Chemical, likely others)
SPX - 44 cars, 11 lots 1927-1948
TELX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930
TENX - 4 cars, 1 lot, built 1949 (for sulphur dioxide containers)
VSX - 15 cars, 5 lots 1924-1929
WCX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930? (unsure about this order)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Rob for finding that. I had no idea wood pipe was still being manufactured in 1942.

I imagine that the war had a lot to do with it! :-)

Tim O'Connor

On 2/21/2020 10:31 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
That's the most plausible explanation I've heard so far.

Comparing the load to the flatcar says these things are about 4', maybe 4'-6" max, in diameter.  That's a reasonable size for water piping.  Two to a car longitudinally says they're 20' long more or less, which was and is a common length for joints of pipe.

I found a 1942 catalog of wood pipe which claimed extensive use, even at that date.  The war probably boosted its use a bit. http://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf
Not incidentally, they also built water tanks, which if I recall correctly had some use on railroads when they used those external combustion locomotives.

Ron Merrick, piping engineer
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Tim and Ed,

Two possibilities for the USAX cars:

Many large bases had their own water treatment facilities, which would have used chlorine. They used chlorine for more than just officers' swimming pools.

Even though we weren't supposed to have poison gas the US was still making chemical weapons up until 1969 "just in case". Chlorine was a component of some of these weapons, and maybe others I've never heard of.

Love the photo. I wonder what those rich people living up on the distant hills thought about the view in Taylor Yard's direction. Well, the railroad was there first.
 
Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:52 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Thanks for that roster Ed!

The attached photo may be one of those mysterious USA cars. From the Gerstley duplicates.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/21/2020 1:33 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Tim,
ACF wasn’t the only builder of cars of this type that were primarily used for chlorine containers. ACF records document the company built approximately 350 "Multi-Unit Tank Cars" from 1924 to 1958 comprised of 87 orders having lot numbers assigned. Roughly half of the cars were built before 1940 with the largest pre-1940 order being 16 cars.

Ten of these cars were built “for stock” for the U.S.A. Chief of Engineers. I don’t know the disposition of these lot 2370 cars built in July 1941. 

Six ACF builder photos of these cars are on the Barriger Flickr web site with 3/4-views & “B” end views of 3 of the earliest cars - lot 10, MALX 365; lot 188, VSX 204; lot 401, GWEX 4?? (angled view hides car number). 

List of ACF M-U tank cars by reporting marks to include the quantity of cars, number of orders, and range of build dates:
ACCX - 10 cars, 4 lots 1926-1935
ACF - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1941 (U.S.A. Chief of Engineers)
BAKX - 2 cars, 2 lots 1931-1932
BCX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1926-1931
CACX (or possibly PPGX) - 21 cars, 2 lots 1936-1937
CALX - 3 cars, 3 lots 1927-1934
CILX (Canada) - 2 cars, 2 lots 1932, 1945
DAX - 23 cars, 11 lots 1928-1946
DUPX - 15 cars, 3 lots 1926-1933
GCX - 26 cars, 1 lot, built 1948
GWEX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1927-1928
HOKX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1925-1926
MALX - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1925
MONX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1932-1936
PSMX - 32 cars, 12 lots 1924-1948
SHPX - 101 cars, 16 lots 1937-1948 (lessees - Westvaco, DuPont, Diamond Chemical, likely others)
SPX - 44 cars, 11 lots 1927-1948
TELX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930
TENX - 4 cars, 1 lot, built 1949 (for sulphur dioxide containers)
VSX - 15 cars, 5 lots 1924-1929
WCX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930? (unsure about this order)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Bruce Smith
 

Tim,

Wood pipe was commonly used through WWII. It is absolutely within the potential era of this photograph.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

On Feb 21, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:


Redwood pipe was used in the early years of the 20th century but the ATSF photo appears to
be from at least the 1940's if not later.

Here is a 1908 photo - https://www.sewerhistory.org/images/bm/bmc2/1908_bmc202.jpg

The use of magnificent old growth redwood for sewer pipes just makes me ill to think about. :-(

(yes, I'm a tree hugger)



On 2/21/2020 9:34 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
They look like sections of redwood pipe to me. They were common in California back in the days before they switched to concrete pipe, for water transmission.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Jackson
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson

Santa Fe Springs CA







--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Tim O'Connor
 

Redwood pipe was used in the early years of the 20th century but the ATSF photo appears to
be from at least the 1940's if not later.

Here is a 1908 photo - https://www.sewerhistory.org/images/bm/bmc2/1908_bmc202.jpg

The use of magnificent old growth redwood for sewer pipes just makes me ill to think about. :-(

(yes, I'm a tree hugger)

On 2/21/2020 9:34 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
They look like sections of redwood pipe to me. They were common in California back in the days before they switched to concrete pipe, for water transmission.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Jackson
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson

Santa Fe Springs CA






--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Tim O'Connor
 


To me it appears that each car has 8 individual objects of perhaps 10 to 12 feet in length.

I don't think they are wine barrels, or pickle barrels, or vinegar tanks, or railroad ties.

Bruce's suggestion of wood pipe seems wrong for the era of the picture (although I do have
images of ATSF flats loaded with wood pipe decades earlier) but something WRAPPED in wood seems
quite possible.

It's an official ATSF photo so perhaps it was a very special shipment. I have some amazing
shots of weird (and probably uncommon) loads on flat cars.

Tim O'Connor





On 2/20/2020 3:08 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Bob,

Given the inability to enlarge the picture due to pixelation, I doubt that anyone will be able to answer that question. Some options that it might be:
- wood pipe
- wood tank (barrels seem unlikely as they usually had a taper at each end and this load does not appear to have that
- something wrapped in wood for protection, typically of bearing surfaces. I thought a large shaft, but the load would probably be too heavy for the cars it is loaded on.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:26 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Help with freight car list

Tim O'Connor
 


The 858-B's were popular photo subjects - I have at least 14 images on my hard drive,
from NYC to PC era.





On 2/20/2020 9:33 PM, Doug Chapman via Groups.Io wrote:
Elden,

NYC 43267 was a 50 ton, 40' box car, built by Despatch Shop in 1956, NYC Lot 858B. It was one of 1390 cars numbered 42000-43389. The drawing below comes from Terry Link's Canada Southern website.

Doug Chapman
Montclair, VA
_._,_._,_



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks for that roster Ed!

The attached photo may be one of those mysterious USA cars. From the Gerstley duplicates.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/21/2020 1:33 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:
On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Tim,
ACF wasn’t the only builder of cars of this type that were primarily used for chlorine containers. ACF records document the company built approximately 350 "Multi-Unit Tank Cars" from 1924 to 1958 comprised of 87 orders having lot numbers assigned. Roughly half of the cars were built before 1940 with the largest pre-1940 order being 16 cars.

Ten of these cars were built “for stock” for the U.S.A. Chief of Engineers. I don’t know the disposition of these lot 2370 cars built in July 1941. 

Six ACF builder photos of these cars are on the Barriger Flickr web site with 3/4-views & “B” end views of 3 of the earliest cars - lot 10, MALX 365; lot 188, VSX 204; lot 401, GWEX 4?? (angled view hides car number). 

List of ACF M-U tank cars by reporting marks to include the quantity of cars, number of orders, and range of build dates:
ACCX - 10 cars, 4 lots 1926-1935
ACF - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1941 (U.S.A. Chief of Engineers)
BAKX - 2 cars, 2 lots 1931-1932
BCX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1926-1931
CACX (or possibly PPGX) - 21 cars, 2 lots 1936-1937
CALX - 3 cars, 3 lots 1927-1934
CILX (Canada) - 2 cars, 2 lots 1932, 1945
DAX - 23 cars, 11 lots 1928-1946
DUPX - 15 cars, 3 lots 1926-1933
GCX - 26 cars, 1 lot, built 1948
GWEX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1927-1928
HOKX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1925-1926
MALX - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1925
MONX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1932-1936
PSMX - 32 cars, 12 lots 1924-1948
SHPX - 101 cars, 16 lots 1937-1948 (lessees - Westvaco, DuPont, Diamond Chemical, likely others)
SPX - 44 cars, 11 lots 1927-1948
TELX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930
TENX - 4 cars, 1 lot, built 1949 (for sulphur dioxide containers)
VSX - 15 cars, 5 lots 1924-1929
WCX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930? (unsure about this order)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Allen Cain
 

Looks like it could be wooden tank cars that were used to transport Vinegar and other such acidic products.  Attached is a couple of photos of these cars.  THe Speas Co Vinegar car looks the most like what you have in your photo.

Allen Cain


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Tim O'Connor
 


Nice pictures!! I answered my own question about ACF building these. I forgot I had
photos of CC&F (Canadian Car & Foundry) and GATC (General American) cannister flats.
But most of them appear to be ACF cars.

Tim O'Connor




On 2/19/2020 6:36 PM, Allen Cain wrote:
Here are some pictures of the Chlorine canister cars along with one of the MTS model.  Note that in some you are seeing the top of the canister with the connection point and it some the domed bottom.

Allen Cain

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: REA questions

Tim O'Connor
 


That photo shows a troop sleeper, rebuilt as an ice refrigerator car.


On 2/19/2020 11:15 PM, naptownprr wrote:

Thanks.  I also didn't know that REA bought some used troop kitchen cars.


Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 11:09 PM.
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions
 
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 05:32 PM, naptownprr wrote:

So how were the cars lettered before 1953?

http://www.gregariousrailfan.com/images/REA_rail_car.jpg

Dennis


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Ed Hawkins
 

On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Tim,
ACF wasn’t the only builder of cars of this type that were primarily used for chlorine containers. ACF records document the company built approximately 350 "Multi-Unit Tank Cars" from 1924 to 1958 comprised of 87 orders having lot numbers assigned. Roughly half of the cars were built before 1940 with the largest pre-1940 order being 16 cars.

Ten of these cars were built “for stock” for the U.S.A. Chief of Engineers. I don’t know the disposition of these lot 2370 cars built in July 1941. 

Six ACF builder photos of these cars are on the Barriger Flickr web site with 3/4-views & “B” end views of 3 of the earliest cars - lot 10, MALX 365; lot 188, VSX 204; lot 401, GWEX 4?? (angled view hides car number). 

List of ACF M-U tank cars by reporting marks to include the quantity of cars, number of orders, and range of build dates:
ACCX - 10 cars, 4 lots 1926-1935
ACF - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1941 (U.S.A. Chief of Engineers)
BAKX - 2 cars, 2 lots 1931-1932
BCX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1926-1931
CACX (or possibly PPGX) - 21 cars, 2 lots 1936-1937
CALX - 3 cars, 3 lots 1927-1934
CILX (Canada) - 2 cars, 2 lots 1932, 1945
DAX - 23 cars, 11 lots 1928-1946
DUPX - 15 cars, 3 lots 1926-1933
GCX - 26 cars, 1 lot, built 1948
GWEX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1927-1928
HOKX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1925-1926
MALX - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1925
MONX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1932-1936
PSMX - 32 cars, 12 lots 1924-1948
SHPX - 101 cars, 16 lots 1937-1948 (lessees - Westvaco, DuPont, Diamond Chemical, likely others)
SPX - 44 cars, 11 lots 1927-1948
TELX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930
TENX - 4 cars, 1 lot, built 1949 (for sulphur dioxide containers)
VSX - 15 cars, 5 lots 1924-1929
WCX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930? (unsure about this order)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Fw: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Charles Peck
 

I seem to remember seeing a similar picture years ago. It was undersea
telegraph or telephone cable.  It was wound spool to spool to spool and
continued across from car to car in one long continuous length.
Uncoupling levers had been removed, as I recall.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:53 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Andy and List Members,
 
Andy wrote: "Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car"
 
It is true the details are not clear enough, but to my eyes it looks like there are eight per car, arranged 4 long by 2 wide. each of the eight load items appears to have the wood secured with two dark black bands
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Fw: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Andy and List Members,
 
Andy wrote: "Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car"
 
It is true the details are not clear enough, but to my eyes it looks like there are eight per car, arranged 4 long by 2 wide. each of the eight load items appears to have the wood secured with two dark black bands
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Bob Webber
 

Garth, they still dig up redwood pipes in Chicago.   There are likely hundreds of installations still (mostly) intact.  They are a good (if you can get around the waste and ecological issues) "pipes".  

Wood survives a lot longer in some areas.  Telegraph poles from the 1880s are still to be found around Marshall Pass on the D&RG.   Flumes can also be found in this and other areas.  And the first long distance transmission line was in Western Colorado along the RGS - requiring flumes, poles, cross arms, etc.    Dense old growth wood can stand up to the elements incredibly well, as compared to newer growth wood.

At 10:23 AM 2/21/2020, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Friends,

The idea of these being redwood pipes now makes more sense than spools of wire. Even more sense when I remembered that there once was a factory near Antioch, California on the ATSF that made redwood pipes.Â

And lookie what I found:

https://www.mendorailhistory.org/1_redwoods/redwood_pipes.htm

http://www.sandiegoyesterday.com/?tag=redwood-pipe . This one is big enough to be one of the pipes on the flat cars.

https://www.citylab.com/design/2016/10/san-francisco-1939-worlds-fair-relic-discovered-construction/505076/ Â

Some of these systems endured for years. Although not redwood, you can still see miles of wooden flumes that fed several PG&E powerhouses along the Truckee River between Truckee and Reno from the windows of the California Zephyr. I think those flumes are all dead now, but they were still being maintained into the late 20th century.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

Bob Webber


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

The idea of these being redwood pipes now makes more sense than spools of wire. Even more sense when I remembered that there once was a factory near Antioch, California on the ATSF that made redwood pipes. 

And lookie what I found:


http://www.sandiegoyesterday.com/?tag=redwood-pipe . This one is big enough to be one of the pipes on the flat cars.


Some of these systems endured for years. Although not redwood, you can still see miles of wooden flumes that fed several PG&E powerhouses along the Truckee River between Truckee and Reno from the windows of the California Zephyr. I think those flumes are all dead now, but they were still being maintained into the late 20th century.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:49 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
Ron, and All;

To add:  After the Loma Prieta earthquake, I was assigned to damage assessment in the Santa Cruz mountains outside Santa Cruz, CA.  Even at that late date, there were water districts that had redwood water tanks and redwood water lines, that I assessed damage to, and wrote up for FEMA funding for repair.  They were remarkably durable, unlike concrete or masonry.  One large redwood tank above Scotts Valley, had slid partly off its foundation, but still had most of its water inside.  Remarkable.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:32 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

That's the most plausible explanation I've heard so far.

Comparing the load to the flatcar says these things are about 4', maybe 4'-6" max, in diameter.  That's a reasonable size for water piping.  Two to a car longitudinally says they're 20' long more or less, which was and is a common length for joints of pipe.

I found a 1942 catalog of wood pipe which claimed extensive use, even at that date.  The war probably boosted its use a bit.   Blockedhttp://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf
Not incidentally, they also built water tanks, which if I recall correctly had some use on railroads when they used those external combustion locomotives.

I also ran across this photo -- Blockedhttp://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf

Ron Merrick, piping engineer





Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ron, and All;

To add: After the Loma Prieta earthquake, I was assigned to damage assessment in the Santa Cruz mountains outside Santa Cruz, CA. Even at that late date, there were water districts that had redwood water tanks and redwood water lines, that I assessed damage to, and wrote up for FEMA funding for repair. They were remarkably durable, unlike concrete or masonry. One large redwood tank above Scotts Valley, had slid partly off its foundation, but still had most of its water inside. Remarkable.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:32 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

That's the most plausible explanation I've heard so far.

Comparing the load to the flatcar says these things are about 4', maybe 4'-6" max, in diameter. That's a reasonable size for water piping. Two to a car longitudinally says they're 20' long more or less, which was and is a common length for joints of pipe.

I found a 1942 catalog of wood pipe which claimed extensive use, even at that date. The war probably boosted its use a bit. Blockedhttp://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf
Not incidentally, they also built water tanks, which if I recall correctly had some use on railroads when they used those external combustion locomotives.

I also ran across this photo -- Blockedhttp://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf

Ron Merrick, piping engineer


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

mopacfirst
 

That's the most plausible explanation I've heard so far.

Comparing the load to the flatcar says these things are about 4', maybe 4'-6" max, in diameter.  That's a reasonable size for water piping.  Two to a car longitudinally says they're 20' long more or less, which was and is a common length for joints of pipe.

I found a 1942 catalog of wood pipe which claimed extensive use, even at that date.  The war probably boosted its use a bit.   http://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf
Not incidentally, they also built water tanks, which if I recall correctly had some use on railroads when they used those external combustion locomotives.

I also ran across this photo -- http://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf

Ron Merrick, piping engineer