Date   
Re: NP Refrigerators

radiodial868
 

Dennis, you can see the crossbearers? All I can see is black! Except for the Truss Rod underframe, which also looks fun to do. The Tichy underframe is $3.39 ea, so will use those.
Bob, I searched all over Flickr, what is this Barringer AC&F site you speak of?
Aaron & John, thanks for pictures and the validation of the 90000 series.  Plain ends just like the Red Caboose model. We have plan now.
Also, will order additional trucks from NPRHA (http://store.nprha.org/modeling/trucks/)
Thanks for the info everyone. Will queue this one up as soon as the parts arrive from HobbyInc.
RJ Dial

Re: SP&S USRA DS Boxcar Photos

Sean Murphy
 

Thanks for the help everyone!

Re: NP Refrigerators

Dennis Storzek
 

Several people have mentioned substituting an Accurail fishbelly underframe on these cars, but looking at the photos Arron just posted, I note the N.P. cars had crossbearers that drop all the way to the bottom chord of the fishbelly sills, while the Accurail part has shallower crossbearers.  A better source of an underframe with the correct crossbearers would be the Tichy 40' flatcar that is also currently being discussed; it has the proper form of crossbearer.

Dennis Storzek

Re: NP Refrigerators

John Monrad
 

The NP reefers did not have braces on the ends.

The number is correct for reefers in series 90000-90799 built by NP in 1931-32.

John Monrad

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

spsalso
 

There is a book by Charles S. Small called "California's Railway Guns".  It is a 90 page paperback.  There are drawings and photos.  The photo reproduction is not great.

A gun similar to the one in the second photo is shown on the cover of the book with its railway trucks.  There was a span bolster with two six-wheel trucks on the breech end, and a span bolster with two eight-wheel trucks on the other end.

It (the book, not the gun) is available from Amazon for about $1000 (plus $100 shipping).  And elsewhere, for substantially less.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: NP Refrigerators

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Every-time I get a photo of an already competed car I find more work to do.  But I love it.

Bill Pardie

On Nov 16, 2019, at 9:10 AM, npin53 <npin53@...> wrote:

This should help a little bit.

Aaron Gjermundson <N.P. 90062.tif><N.P. 93528.tif><NP 94631.jpg>

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Note the interesting cradle, possibly specific to this particular model gun. I would suggest the cradle went back on the same flat car pair for reuse to where the gun was proofed and stored. By the date of the photo, that should have been the Naval Proving Ground at Indian Head, Maryland.
Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 1:21 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: NMRA Online Photo Archive

CJ Riley
 

Since the NMRA librarian position has been unfilled for years, there is no one to do anything about it. I am not sure how the transfer to the Sacramento library has proceeded but maybe that is the problem.

Re: NP Refrigerators

npin53
 
Edited

This should help a little bit. A few different Monad and paint scheme variations.

An early series had a single truss rod on each side of the fishbelly center sill. Also, some of the cars had the really nice NP Andrews style truck offered by Tahoe.

Aaron Gjermundson

Re: NP Refrigerators

Bob Webber
 

did you look at the Barringer AC&F Flickr site - there might be builder's photos of them there.....

At 10:51 AM 11/16/2019, you wrote:
2 last questions before I get started on kitbashing. The Mainstreeter stock car article reflects different ends than the PFE reefer end, was that because of the extra bracing the open-sided stock car needed, or did the reefers also have those braces?  The NP Diagrams don't reflect. I have loads of reefer/freight car books, but no NP reefer images in them!
Lastly, I assume the 90128 number is a foobie to match the car.  I'm guessing the correct car would be 93000 series?
RJ Dial

Bob Webber

HO Scale Wedge Plow Blade

Nelson Moyer
 

The CB&Q used gondola wedge push plows in the early years, but in 1948, they scrapped the gondolas, salvaged the wedge blades, and mounted them on FM-11 and FM-11A flat cars. I’d like to model one of these wedge plows, but I can’t fine scale drawings of the blade. I checked Shapeways, and none of the blades I found match the Q wedge type. It seems like the wedge plow blade would be a natural for 3D printing for someone with CAD skills. Has anyone done the blade drawings suitable for 3D printing? Alternatively, has anyone published an article on construction the blade, including patterns for cutting the blade parts? I have the MR Jan 1957 article, but the blade doesn’t look quite right for the CB&Q. I have several photos of the Q wedge plows to work from, but I don’t do CAD.

 

The Q had over 100 of these cars, and they were distributed at division points, sub-division points, and other yards across the system. Other roads like the GN used them, so there should be a market for a 3D printed version in HO scale.

 

Nelson Moyer




Scanned by McAfee and confirmed virus-free.

Re: Looking for car colors and road numbers (Tichy Flatcars)

Tony Thompson
 

RJ Dial wrote:

  • Another trick, is that for decks that were originally painted (i.e. SP), I'll also add some of the body color to the palette. Similarly, I'll leave a board unpainted now and then to represent replacements. They still get the washes though.
    If by SP you mean Southern Pacific, I can assure you that SP did not paint flat car decks, ever, at least prior to 1960. They did use treated wood, but not paint.

Tony Thompson



Re: NP Refrigerators

radiodial868
 

2 last questions before I get started on kitbashing. The Mainstreeter stock car article reflects different ends than the PFE reefer end, was that because of the extra bracing the open-sided stock car needed, or did the reefers also have those braces?  The NP Diagrams don't reflect. I have loads of reefer/freight car books, but no NP reefer images in them!
Lastly, I assume the 90128 number is a foobie to match the car.  I'm guessing the correct car would be 93000 series?
RJ Dial

Re: Looking for car colors and road numbers (Tichy Flatcars)

radiodial868
 

So you don't think I'm like my grandmother, sweet lady, but she would always leave out some part of a recipe she was asked to share. 
  • I forgot to mention that one needs to really gouge up the surface first using a #17 Xacto chisel blade. Drag it, stab it, gouge it, split it & so on.
  • Another item is that these images used Floquil Foundation as the base color instead of gray primer. Only dif is that it varies the overall look across a fleet of cars. The key is to use a solvent based base coat followed by acrylic colors.
  • As the one image shows, I used artists paints in the squeeze tubes onto a glass plate, wetting the brush and then getting a little color on the brush.
  • Another trick, is that for decks that were originally painted (i.e. SP), I'll also add some of the body color to the palette. Similarly, I'll leave a board unpainted now and then to represent replacements. They still get the washes though.
  • I've also done this with wood decks like Model Masterpieces with the same results.
RJ Dial
Burlingame, CA

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Tony Thompson
 

Fred Jansz wrote:

Tony: because there's a picture of such an inverted herald on a '16' in your book and I like to model from photos.

    No problem, Fred, of course it's your call. In my own case, I have more than 60 PFE reefer models, but not one reversed-stripe car nor a single aluminum car. Too rare for me.

Tony Thompson



Re: Revenue Divisions Between Railroads

Alex Huff
 

Doug,
I should have been more clear when I wrote "Chicago was another gateway".  Chicago was another gateway between the Eastern and Western Territories.  Divisions were an arcane example of the importance of the the "paper" side of railroading.  MIGN hired an experienced divisions clerk who had worked for the GTW.  Her seniority district was limited to two floors and part of a third in the GTW General Office building.  One of MIGN's lesser interchanges was at Boyne Falls, MI with the Boyne City Railway.  Originally the Boyne City, Gaylord & Alpena, it connected with both the PRR and Michigan Central (NYC).  As an originator of a considerable amount of lumber traffic, the BCG&A was able to negotiate a 50/50 split on the total Eastern Territory revenue.  That was still in place when MIGN came into existence.  Fortunately for MIGN, the Boyne City Railway was effectively out of the freight business and we only interchanged a few carloads of inbound government surplus food.  I remember a carload of frozen turkeys.
Alex Huff 

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bob Webber
 

Yes, 2 of the San Pedro guns were 14 inch model 1920 (RG) railway guns - a ring (not unlike a turntable) was prepared, trucks rolled away and ...instant emplacement.   But there were a half dozen Taft period batteries at Fort MacArthur.  4 were of the 14" (RG) disappearing model.  They also had mortars and smaller guns.

Note that the railway guns and the disappearing models arrived by freight trains.  The guns typically built on the East coast & proofed there, (which means some assembly required upon arrival).  San Pedro also had one of the larger cranes and facilities for battleships and lesser - which meant, just as for Mare Island, Puget Sound & San Francisco  (Hunter's Point) , there were  semi-regular shipments of tubes, barrels liners, etc.   The Oregon and most of these other areas had various ilk of weaponry that required training and replacement.  So that gun flat (or pairs of them) were seen on Sherman Hill.  This is especially true as ships were brought in to these yards in the 30s for modernization.  Barrels were frequently rotated, and, not unlike trucks on some cars, they rarely matched the carriage (serial numbers). 

That white stuff is used to forestall hurricanes & tornadoes, powder liberally sprinkled.  Note it can clump and become slippery. ..


At 07:51 AM 11/16/2019, Bruce Smith wrote:
Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Bob Webber

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Bruce, that white stuff is where the scenery guys hadn’t gotten to yet. Come back in the spring and it’ll be done and all green. 

Bill Daniels
Santa Rosa, California 


On Nov 16, 2019, at 5:52 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: NMRA Online Photo Archive

Bill Welch
 

So as a member Ralph, have you complained, lobbied protested. . .to the NMRA as #L2532?!

Bill Welch