Date   

PRR 254288

Clark Propst
 

There are some CGW train list sheets laying next to the computer. My wife is transcribing them to an excel sheet. I noticed empty PRR covered hopper 254288 headed from Randolph Minn. to Ingalton Ill. Really surprised to see that car out here! Not being a Pennsy guy can someone please tell me about this car?
Many Thanks,
CW Propst


Re: StLB&M 1944 AAR DD Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #6

lsittler
 

My apologies. I have only been on this list for about 5 months and am learning all the time. Had no idea lists like this existed and am truly a neophyte. I appreciate all the information that is available here. Unfortunately, I don’t know yet how to access things and appreciate everyone’s indulgence. Les 
 

From: Benjamin Hom
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 7:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] StLB&M 1944 AAR DD Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #6
 
Les Sittler asked:
"May I ask if the sources you quote are available, i.e . the Richard Hendrickson articles and the Ed Hawkins spreadsheets?"
 
The Hawkins spreadsheets can be found here:
 
Recommend list members bookmark this link and/or download the files as they've been referred to repeatedly on this list, yet people keep forgetting the information exists.
 
 
Ben Hom
 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: StLB&M 1944 AAR DD Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #6

Benjamin Hom
 

Les Sittler asked:
"May I ask if the sources you quote are available, i.e . the Richard Hendrickson articles and the Ed Hawkins spreadsheets?"

The Hawkins spreadsheets can be found here:

Recommend list members bookmark this link and/or download the files as they've been referred to repeatedly on this list, yet people keep forgetting the information exists.


Ben Hom


Re: StLB&M 1944 AAR DD Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #6

lsittler
 

Hi Bob- A really nice job to say the least. May I ask if the sources you quote are available, i.e . the Richard Hendrickson articles and the Ed Hawkins spreadsheets? I have a double door C&BT ATSF car that would be great to upgrade like what you have done here. Les
 

From: Bob Chapman
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 10:52 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [RealSTMFC] StLB&M 1944 AAR DD Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #6
 
Taking the idea of foreign road to an extreme, here's the last (yea!) of the C&BT upgrades from the stash -- a StLB&M double door boxcar. Yes, C&BT offered a DD boxcar carbody as one of their variations, and several interesting prototypes can be modeled from it, including UP, ATSF, CB&Q, SBD, SSW, and B&O. The B&O M-59 would have been a natural choice here, but I already had one courtesy Sunshine Models. So it was off in a very different direction with the StLB&M prototype.
 
If one overlooks the prototype's 15-foot door opening vs the kit's 14-foot, the kit's postwar Youngstown doors are a decent match. Replacement parts include a Yarmouth Apex runningboard, Tichy 8/8 ladders, and Kadee grabs and brakewheel. The deep sidesill was shaped from .040" x .125" styrene. Decals are Mask Island with leftover StLB&M reporting marks from a Sunshine set (never throw anything away!). Weathering matches the prototype photo -- a heavy layer of Texas dust.
 
This one completes the six-car pandemic project -- to upgrade the C&BT kits which have languished in the deep stash for four decades. Again, a big posthumous thanks to Richard Hendrickson for the inspirational Model Railroading articles in the late 80s, and to Ed Hawkins for his outstanding spreadsheets simplifying the correct detailing choices.  
 
Bob Chapman
   

Attachments:


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Southern Pacific GS Gondola Question

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

The DA freight car ladders - very fine parts - are also extremely prone to breakage. I never knew it was just
crummy (crumbly?) plastic. But since the problem never seems to happen with Kadee ladders, I now see the
wisdom of this explanation.

    Kadee does recycle sprues etc. into virgin styrene, but only ONCE. The excess from THAT batch is all scrapped. Then excess from the following virgin batch can be recycled once, and so on. Any other process degrades the styrene.

Tony Thompson




Re: Southern Pacific GS Gondola Question

dh30973
 

A good portion of the DA parts were re packaged Grandt Line parts. Same parts, just less in the package. Grandt did use re-grind for some of their parts, not saying which. Before I bought Cannon and Company after Gordon’s death, he told me he saved his sprues and incomplete parts to take to Grandt. So they could re grind them. Gordon never used re grind. 

Some of the other DA parts were made by another tool maker, Joel Berling, who also used regrind. But he did not do the gondola.

Dave Hussey


Re: Photo: Fallbrook Railway Boxcar 1665

Todd Sullivan
 

The Fallbrook Railway was built from semi-bituminous coal fields in the Southern Tier of New York and Northern Tier of Pennsylvania to the  Corning, NY area to haul coal for the Corning Glass Works. 

Todd Sullivan


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Claus;

 

THAT is one interesting gon, of course which there are numerous examples of.  The RRs responses to the uniquely badly-treated gondola car fleets were numerous and varied.  I am always interested in how RRs built new or rebuilt to address this problem.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 1:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi Elden,

 

Thanks for writing – someone else said they thought it was Hocking Valley, and there was a second photo in the collection to support that suggestion

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD

Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Claus;

 

That is a different gon, and I am not sure whose.  Note the end sill, grabs, and other details appear to be different.

 

That jogged end grab and retainer location are hints, but I do not know….

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi List Members,

 

Here is a second photo showing a similar (same?) gondola...

 

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

From: Claus Schlund

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 1:43 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi Bob and List Members,

 

I’ve not done a rivet-by-rivet comparison, but it looks like it is identical to and built to the PRR class GS design – see link below.

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 12:54 PM

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

An undated photo from the Columbus Metropolitan Library:

BlockedBlockedhttps://digital-collections.columbuslibrary.org/digital/collection/memory/id/71933/rec/2728

This is a very clear photo and can be enlarged quite a bit.

My thanks to Bill West on the PRR Group for the link tip.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Fallbrook Railway Boxcar 1665

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Fallbrook Railway Boxcar 1665

A photo from the New York Heritage Digital Collections:

https://cdm16694.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16694coll29/id/1935/rec/7

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Circa early 1900s.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: CCC&StL Boxcar 44759 With Banner

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: CCC&StL Boxcar 44759 With Banner

A circa 1931 photo from the Grand Rapids Public Museum:

https://www.grpmcollections.org/Detail/objects/163583

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Tree Tanglefoot is an adaptation of sticky flypaper adhesive that prevents destructive insects from crawling up tree trunks and damaging trees. The Tanglefoot Company was founded in 1885 and is still in business as a division of ScottsMiracle-Gro.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Elden,
 
Thanks for writing – someone else said they thought it was Hocking Valley, and there was a second photo in the collection to support that suggestion
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 12:38 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola
 

Claus;

 

That is a different gon, and I am not sure whose.  Note the end sill, grabs, and other details appear to be different.

 

That jogged end grab and retainer location are hints, but I do not know….

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi List Members,

 

Here is a second photo showing a similar (same?) gondola...

 

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

From: Claus Schlund

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 1:43 PM

To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi Bob and List Members,

 

I’ve not done a rivet-by-rivet comparison, but it looks like it is identical to and built to the PRR class GS design – see link below.

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 12:54 PM

To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

An undated photo from the Columbus Metropolitan Library:

Blockedhttps://digital-collections.columbuslibrary.org/digital/collection/memory/id/71933/rec/2728

This is a very clear photo and can be enlarged quite a bit.

My thanks to Bill West on the PRR Group for the link tip.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - more info

Jeffrey White
 

Mont,

Is any of that infrastructure still intact? My son is an assistant professor of military science at Ball State for Army ROTC and it might be a good field trip next time we go up to visit. 

I hope it's not all gone like most of the railroad infrastructure in Centralia, IL which is my modeling interest.

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 5/26/2020 7:04 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:
Todd,

Yes, the MWR cars were known for bringing inbound raw materials for glass making.  There was a rumor floating around that some cars were equipped with roof hatches for sand loading, but lets not go there.  There is no documentation of such.

From the late 1800's through the 20th Century central Indiana was full of glass manufacturing companies.  They gathered here because of cheap and plentiful natural gas used in the glass molding process.  When the gas ran out in the early 1900's the plants tended to stay.  Ball was the largest and intimately took over many smaller competitors.

The 5.6 miles long Muncie & Western RR (MWR) was owned and operated by the Ball Glass Manufacturing Corporation, later known simply as Ball Corp.  This small railroad allowed Ball to connect with all railroads serving Muncie, IN:  NKP, NYC, C&O, PRR, and the Central Indiana (CI).

The Ball family had profound influence on Muncie and the surrounding communities.  There was Ball State Teacher's college later to become Ball Sate University.  And there is Ball Memorial Hospital started at the behest of the Ball family.  In the 1930's George Ball even gained controlling interest in the NKP after the Van Sweringan's (spelling) ran into financial problems, or both passed away, I'm don't recall which.  

I'll quit right there.  I'm getting in over my heard.  Just be assured the Ball family had a significant influence on my home area.  Then there is collecting glass canning jars, a whole different hobby.

Mont Switzer     

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Todd Sullivan via groups.io [sullivant41@...]
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 4:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - more info

And, according to Tony Koester, the cars were often used for back-hauls of sand for the factory. 

I spent a few weeks in Marion, IN in the early 2000s rehab'ing a house for Habitat for Missionaries, and found a closed Ball glass plant there.  I think it had been served by the NKP.

Todd Sullivan


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

On the subject of cool gons, has anyone built one of these?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 12:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Claus;

 

That is a different gon, and I am not sure whose.  Note the end sill, grabs, and other details appear to be different.

 

That jogged end grab and retainer location are hints, but I do not know….

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi List Members,

 

Here is a second photo showing a similar (same?) gondola...

 

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

From: Claus Schlund

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 1:43 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi Bob and List Members,

 

I’ve not done a rivet-by-rivet comparison, but it looks like it is identical to and built to the PRR class GS design – see link below.

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 12:54 PM

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

An undated photo from the Columbus Metropolitan Library:

BlockedBlockedhttps://digital-collections.columbuslibrary.org/digital/collection/memory/id/71933/rec/2728

This is a very clear photo and can be enlarged quite a bit.

My thanks to Bill West on the PRR Group for the link tip.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Claus;

 

That is a different gon, and I am not sure whose.  Note the end sill, grabs, and other details appear to be different.

 

That jogged end grab and retainer location are hints, but I do not know….

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 2:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi List Members,

 

Here is a second photo showing a similar (same?) gondola...

 

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

From: Claus Schlund

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 1:43 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Hi Bob and List Members,

 

I’ve not done a rivet-by-rivet comparison, but it looks like it is identical to and built to the PRR class GS design – see link below.

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

From: Bob Chaparro via groups.io

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 12:54 PM

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

 

Photo: Buckeye Steel Transfer Gondola

An undated photo from the Columbus Metropolitan Library:

Blockedhttps://digital-collections.columbuslibrary.org/digital/collection/memory/id/71933/rec/2728

This is a very clear photo and can be enlarged quite a bit.

My thanks to Bill West on the PRR Group for the link tip.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Hindsight 20/20 clarification

Tim O'Connor
 


Just FYI - the Zoom application allows gatherings of up to 300 people. This works quite well for
lectures and presentations - ONE person broadcasting to many people.

One way to have two-way communication in such cases is to have a side-channel such as email or
text messages. Obviously you can't have 300 people all talking at once! One person talks and 299
are muted.




On 5/25/2020 2:38 PM, Ted Culotta wrote:
Just to be clear, to attend, you must go to the link below and go through the checkout. It's free, but there are a limited number of slots on the video stream and this is the only way we can meter the number of people that sign up.


Cheers,
Ted

Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
P.O. Box 392, Guilford, CT 06437


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Southern Pacific GS Gondola Question

Tim O'Connor
 


The DA freight car ladders - very fine parts - are also extremely prone to breakage. I never knew it was just
crummy (crumbly?) plastic. But since the problem never seems to happen with Kadee ladders, I now see the
wisdom of this explanation.


On 5/25/2020 2:01 PM, Dan Smith wrote:
Tony Thompson wrote;

This results from excessive recycling of scrap styrene moldings

DA did use regrind plastic when they did kits and parts. The brittleness runs across their parts line. The handbrake sets also suffer breakage issues.

The DA AB brake sets were done by Grandt Line and do not seem to have this problem.

I have over 20 of the DA gons and back in the '90's, they sent me a fair # of replacement parts for plastic that was broken in brand new kits.

I don't think they will still do that.

Dan Smith


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


More C&O MW Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

I have attached another clutch of C&O maintenance-of-way cars to share, along with what I think is their original class information from Carl Shaver's FREIGHT CAR EQUIPMENT OF THE CHESAPEAKE & OHIO RAILWAY, AUGUST 1, 1937. All these cars were photographed by myself around 1985-86.

910102 appears to be another of the Hocking Valley 82000-83999 series. These were built by Illinois Car and Manufacturing Co. or Pullman in 1924-25, and came to the C&O by merger in 1930. Some 608 cars from Illinois Car , and 136 from Pullman were rebuilt with steel sides and single 6' doors in 1941, becoming 12392-12999 and 13000-13135 respectively. This one was found in Charlottesville.

X-1299 is also from Hocking Valley 82000-83999. In 1941 169 Illinois cars received steel sides and 10' double steel doors to became 12000-12168. Another 271 Pullman cars received the same upgrades in 1942, becoming 13558-13828. Note that both series retained the rather odd small door on the right as seen on the original wood-sided cars. I think this car was 13728 before conversion to MW service. It was photographed at Gordonsville while awaiting scrapping.

X-1218 came from series 9500-9999, built by Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1930. They had only an 8' 7 1/2" IH. They builder's photo in Shaver's book showed they were not lettered as automobile cars, though end doors clearly mark them as intended for that service. They were quickly made obsolete by larger autos and Evans racks. Shaver notes many were converted to MW service, where their end doors were greatly appreciated for handling service equipment. The attached photo was also from Gordonsville. A few months back I posted a photo of one of these in revenue service in a Nelson & Albemarle train behind their new 44-ton diesel in 1951.

910217 was from series 84230-84729, or 84730-86499, from which the first group were renumbered when they received 6' steel doors in 1935. The bulk of the second group also received steel doors by 1937, though their openings were only 5' 6" and they kept their previous numbers. This is the only 37' C&O MW car I ever found. It was photographed by itself on a stub spur at Stapleton, Virginia (not far from Gladstone) in 1986. At least I think this was Stapleton. The Stapleton depot was across the road, though not on its original foundations and perched on a small hill. This depot was later moved to Lynchburg's Old City Cemetery, where it is lovingly preserved as a museum. Perhaps this car is also hiding somewhere awaiting preservation. I sure hope so. As a final note, all the cars in both classes were retired by 1952, or downgraded to MW service, probably because they still had K-brakes.

I should have more interesting C&O MW cars for you next week, including former troop sleepers.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Hindsight 20/20 clarification

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Hunter, what a great and imaginative idea and I really appreciate this being set up.
Fenton

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 11:01 AM Hunter Hughson via groups.io <hhughson=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi guys. We're thrilled and surprised that there has been so much interest in this even that we sold out in 8 hours. We're going to look into creating more capacity so that we can have more people attend the event. We'll be back in touch with news about that soon. 

Please recognize that these are extraordinary times. It's with an abundance of respect for the members of this group and for the clinicians that I'm going to offer some perspective. Most of us have purchased return airfare and hotel accommodations, paid the registration at an RPM, and taken time off work to see these guys present. In this instance, these same clinicians are streaming their presentation onto the computer in your home for free. Each clinician will have their own position on whether or not they want to give you a copy of their clinic after the event, but I don't have it in me to go back to them and ask for more than they've already agreed to share.

I hope that sounds reasonable.   

Hunter Hughson
www.theniagarabranch.wordpress.com
www.ontarioinhoscale.wordpress.com 

 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Hindsight 20/20 clarification

Hunter Hughson
 

Hi guys. We're thrilled and surprised that there has been so much interest in this even that we sold out in 8 hours. We're going to look into creating more capacity so that we can have more people attend the event. We'll be back in touch with news about that soon. 

Please recognize that these are extraordinary times. It's with an abundance of respect for the members of this group and for the clinicians that I'm going to offer some perspective. Most of us have purchased return airfare and hotel accommodations, paid the registration at an RPM, and taken time off work to see these guys present. In this instance, these same clinicians are streaming their presentation onto the computer in your home for free. Each clinician will have their own position on whether or not they want to give you a copy of their clinic after the event, but I don't have it in me to go back to them and ask for more than they've already agreed to share.

I hope that sounds reasonable.   

Hunter Hughson
www.theniagarabranch.wordpress.com
www.ontarioinhoscale.wordpress.com 

 


Re: Photo: PRR X29 Boxcar 570816 With Banner

Eric Hansmann
 

The car seems to wear a 1928 weigh date. Note the digits between the center and right men.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 10:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR X29 Boxcar 570816 With Banner

 

Photo: PRR X29 Boxcar 570816 With Banner

A circa 1930s photo from the Grand Rapids Public Museum:

https://www.grpmcollections.org/Detail/objects/165252

A load of wax paper.

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

8581 - 8600 of 182100