Date   

Re: CB&Q FM-14 Look-alikes

Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

Dave,

The GN 60200 series cars were not straight side sill cars like your Q cars but with fish belly sides and of course rebuilt (from 65500-65699 flats) for TOFC service. The GN had one series of straight side sill flats, the 66000-66249 series built in 1945, but they were only 52' over end sills.

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Lotz
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 10:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] CB&Q FM-14 Look-alikes



Hi All,

I'm new to this list and have found the discussions to be very interesting
and informative. Thanks for letting me participate.

I'm primarily a CB&Q modeler and my HO scale layout (which is getting
rebuilt after a move from St. Louis) is centered around Burlington, Iowa.
One of the major rail shippers in Burlington was the J.I. Case plant using
flats to ship in steel, and to ship out combines, backhoe/loaders, crawlers
(bulldozers) and skid-steer loaders. I'd like to mix up the flats that
would have been used out of the factory and was wondering how many railroads
rostered 53' 6" flat cars that were identical in design, or very close to
the CB&Q's straight side sill, fishbelly underframe FM-14 (89100-89250,
92000-92349) and FM-14A flat cars (89300-89599, 92400-92799, 93000-93399).
I've uploaded an image from the Q's diagram book of this car to be posted to
the photo area of the list for comparison purposes.

I've checked the list archives for this information and in my library. I've
found that the ATSF had FT-19s that look similar, the FW&D had ex-Q
FM-14/14A flats (641-676) and the GN had the FC 60200-602224 series flats.

I thought it would be a fun exercise to tap into the collective knowledge of
the list membership and find out which other roads had these 53' 6" flats.
I hope others agree.

Dave Lotz
CB&Q fan from Pooler, GA


Re: P2k 50 ft auto car with 5/5 ends, 4/7 side panels?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
-- only Athearn's ancient 50 ft double door car has the correct panels for the Fe-24, but of course it comes up short in every
other category.
So much so that it's probably not even worth harvesting the Athearn sides, what with having to do surgery on the door tracks (once known as "track-ectomy") and having cast-on ladders. Sigh. Somehow I don't miss the days of trying to improve Athearn box and auto cars. Ya youngsters out there don't know how good ya got it!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: P2k 50 ft auto car with 5/5 ends, 4/7 side panels?

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Yes, P2K produced both versions (w/ and w/o end doors) as you describe.

It's similar to the Fe-24, but the riveting (panel arrangement) is not
exactly correct -- only Athearn's ancient 50 ft double door car has the
correct panels for the Fe-24, but of course it comes up short in every
other category.

Tim O'


Does anyone know if P2k produced the 50 ft auto car with 4/7 side panels,
5/5 ends, without end doors? If so, would not this car be fairly close to a
Santa Fe Fe-24? P2k did produce the car with 4/7 sides and one 5/5 end along
with an end door.
Mike Brock


Re: Mopac hoppers in Bellevue, OH

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike,

The MP ran up the EAST side of the Mississippi in Southern Illinois
on joint trackage with the Cotton Belt, to reach East St Louis.

Tim O'Connor

At 5/18/2011 11:10 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
In keeping with the rather novel concept of discussing frt cars, I received
my copy of Classic Trains In Search of Steam Vol III today. Leafing through
the various articles about Pennsy and the B&O I was somewhat stunned to see
the photos on page 14 and 15 of the yard on the NKP at Bellevue, OH, south
of Sandusky. Sitting in the yard is a string of 5 Mopac hoppers and several
Q hoppers as well. So...Mopac hoppers ranging from Ohio to California? Not
bad. I assume Mopac and the Q was moving southern Illinois coal to the Great
Lakes. Mopac, operating west of the Mississippi, sending hoppers east of
that river? What is one to think?

Mike Brock


Re: Multigenerational Search for Truth

Tim O'Connor
 

If we used N-G, we could call it the Glottal Stop Theory of freight
cars, in honor of the pronunciation of N-G. Remember the name may be
N-G but we can call the name something else (ref Lewis Carroll, Through
The Looking Glass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNYOEgMeSvM

Tim O'ng

So I guess it would be okay to continue saying "Gilbert-Nelson"
<g> and indeed, in science the person who develops and makes
accessible an idea sometimes gets more credit than the originator. But
I will have to reflect on whether to change my own terminology to
"Nelson-Gilbert" in future. Or maybe we could just call it the "car
fleet theory," but that's vague and not shorter. Aw heck, I'm sticking
with G-N.

Tony Thompson


Re: Sunshine "Type 17"

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2011-05-18, at 5:58 PM, William Darnaby wrote:

I have recently assembled a pair of the Sunshine GATC "Type 17" 8k tank
cars, a D-X and a Tarvia. This kit is well done and builds into a fine
model. The instructions leave a little to be desired, however.
[major snip]

Thank you Bill for what appear to be excellent suggestions, which I intend to incorporate just as soon as Martin sees fit to send me my examples (probably not until the fall). Hopefully I can still find this message by then...

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net


Re: COINCIDENCES

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes, but L&A 12275 also has two couplers, so it cancels out. :-) :-)

Tim

At 5/18/2011 09:45 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Given that NP 12275 has two couplers, isn't it more like 1 in 1,000,000?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES

Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor


P2k 50 ft auto car with 5/5 ends, 4/7 side panels?

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Does anyone know if P2k produced the 50 ft auto car with 4/7 side panels, 5/5 ends, without end doors? If so, would not this car be fairly close to a Santa Fe Fe-24? P2k did produce the car with 4/7 sides and one 5/5 end along with an end door.

Mike Brock


Mopac hoppers in Bellevue, OH

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

In keeping with the rather novel concept of discussing frt cars, I received my copy of Classic Trains In Search of Steam Vol III today. Leafing through the various articles about Pennsy and the B&O I was somewhat stunned to see the photos on page 14 and 15 of the yard on the NKP at Bellevue, OH, south of Sandusky. Sitting in the yard is a string of 5 Mopac hoppers and several Q hoppers as well. So...Mopac hoppers ranging from Ohio to California? Not bad. I assume Mopac and the Q was moving southern Illinois coal to the Great Lakes. Mopac, operating west of the Mississippi, sending hoppers east of that river? What is one to think?

Mike Brock


Re: Great Northern boxcar

Mark
 

Thanks to Steve, Tim and Rich. Just thought that car looked interesting enough to make one!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Here is one in Glacier Green
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gn/gn40259ajs.jpg

Rich Christie
--- On Wed, 5/18/11, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Great Northern boxcar
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 18, 2011, 2:08 PM


 




I am certain this subject has come up before, but I can't locate the
emails. GN rebuilt 50' single sheathed, single and double door auto cars
with steel sides in the 1950's. The single door cars can be modeled
with the Westerfield kits which have the fishbelly underframe and ends
needed for the project. It looks like this double door car got new ends
as well as a new roof.

I have a photo of one of the cars, Richard Hendrickson's model of
GN 39345, which is a single sheathed car painted in the Empire Builder
scheme.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------------

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205357&nseq=134

From Scott R. Thompson's "Great Northern Color Pictorial - Vol 1", page 90:
Series 40100 to 40299 - rebuilt from outside braced box cars in 1954 -
original series - 29000 to 29899 - built 1925.
Outside steel sheathing, Pullman ends and roof, upgrade brake equipment.
Two 7' wide Camel doors, Universal handbrake, friction bearing trucks.
IL = 50' 6"
IW = 9' 2"
IH = 10' 6"
4862 cubic capacity
110,000 load capacity.
Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Multigenerational Search for Truth

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote:
Not correct. I came up w/ the idea about 15-16 years ago after I built my ORER database.
Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I wasn't aware of how it started.

Tim was far more engaged in the idea than I was (he explained: what else is a retired accountant going to do when he
lives out in the sticks?) and he took ahold of it like a hungry dog does a bone and so, IMO, deserves more far credit than I for explaining it to everyone else.
So I guess it would be okay to continue saying "Gilbert-Nelson" <g> and indeed, in science the person who develops and makes accessible an idea sometimes gets more credit than the originator. But I will have to reflect on whether to change my own terminology to "Nelson-Gilbert" in future. Or maybe we could just call it the "car fleet theory," but that's vague and not shorter. Aw heck, I'm sticking with G-N.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Multigenerational Search for Truth

Dave Nelson
 

Not correct. I came up w/ the idea about 15-16 years ago after I built my
ORER database. There was plenty of data I could slice and dice any which
way I wanted. I posted the original idea on the old FCL forum. Tim came
along a couple of years later and joined the discussion, adding his own take
on the data he had in hand. Tim was far more engaged in the idea than I
was (he explained: what else is a retired accountant going to do when he
lives out in the sticks?) and he took ahold of it like a hungry dog does a
bone and so, IMO, deserves more far credit than I for explaining it to
everyone else.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----


Tim O'Connor wrote:
JP, consider:
Tony Thompson wrote "G-N"
Bruce Smith wrote "N-G"
I do use the abbreviation, but only when I've also used the full names
in the same post. It's my recollection that Tim originated the ideas,
developed them pretty fully, and reported them several times in depth to
this list, and that Dave added considerable weight to the concept with more
data. (If that's not right, someone please correct me.) In the research
environment where I was trained, the proper order of the credit would then
be Gilbert-Nelson.


Re: COINCIDENCES

Scott Pitzer
 

But many roads had a car numbered 12275, and any of them would been considered a "hit."


On May 18, 2011, at 6:45 PM, richtownsend@netscape.net wrote:

Given that NP 12275 has two couplers, isn't it more like 1 in 1,000,000?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES

Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor

The photo RVN01407 that Al Brown mentions is posted at the Ronald Nixon
Collection of the Museum of the Rockies, with the caption provided by
Nixon, "Thought you might like a couple of unusual shots. This is NP
12275 and L&A 12275 in 602 at Glendive (MT) in September 1938. Both cars
were loaded with grain for Duluth. Railroad Magazine said the odds of
such an occasion were 782,000,000 to 1."

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN01407

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NMRA Conventions

Bill Welch
 

Dear Doug:

IMO, this would only require coordination between the Registration person and the Program person with the Program person to be in touch with his or her Presenters letting them know they will receive a refund for the registration or alternatively working out a special reg. form. Since the Program Person would be in touch with speakers anyway about various details, this would not be an odious task.

I am wondering however when the Sheriff is going to call a halt to this topic.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Auburg" <cdauburg@...> wrote:

Doug Auburg wrote:
As a result of discussions about this topic several years ago it was
decided that the simplest and best solution was to not offer "comps"
to clinicians, or layout tour owners. That decision may or may not
have been the "right" one, but it most certainly has made the
organization and administration of conventions easier, saved hurt
feelings of some clinicians, and kept fees down by eliminating the
costs associated with "comping."
Great. Simpler and cheaper convention administration, at the
expense of the volunteer clinician. Not an approach I approve of,
Doug. Fairness in comps or other support is a legitimate worry, but
solving it by stiffing ALL clinicians is a solution which I'd
characterize as simple, appealing, and wrong.



Tony,

You may well be right. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it anymore.




Having said that, I'd love to hear a set of criteria for setting up or
dealing with such reimbursements, should you have some. One only learns by
asking.

Doug



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ADMIN: Re: NMRA Conventions

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Well...hmmm, my judicial robes seem a bit frayed...certainly not from over use. Anyhow, hmmmf...OK, got them on. Lesssee...Oh yes. NMRA conventions. Odd name for a frt car. Unless someone specifically addresses a frt car, discussion about the NMRA is now terminated. Failure to comply will...well, you know...I hate to have to go down into the dungeon tonight...full moon... you know how some of those guys get this time of the month...

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: COINCIDENCES

Richard Townsend
 

Given that NP 12275 has two couplers, isn't it more like 1 in 1,000,000?





Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES




Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor

The photo RVN01407 that Al Brown mentions is posted at the Ronald Nixon
Collection of the Museum of the Rockies, with the caption provided by
Nixon, "Thought you might like a couple of unusual shots. This is NP
12275 and L&A 12275 in 602 at Glendive (MT) in September 1938. Both cars
were loaded with grain for Duluth. Railroad Magazine said the odds of
such an occasion were 782,000,000 to 1."

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN01407

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT


Re: PRR Freight Car Urban Legends (was Re: Underrepresented roads and car types)

John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

Class F22, one of 124 built to handle naval guns. The story goes that it was kept carefully hidden on the Mason City & Clear Lake until the statute of limitations had expired. This car still exists on the Iowa Traction RR, with a snowplow blade attached (not the original plow), and still sees service every winter.


John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@att.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 8:42 pm
Subject: [STMFC] PRR Freight Car Urban Legends (was Re: Underrepresented roads and car types)







Rich Orr wrote:
"As I recall the car was repainted in the P/L of the road then in possession of the car. It was later identified by the purely PRR trucks and the C/N and original car number on the center sill. Or I could be thinking of another piece of lore."

You're probably thinking about the Class F22 or F23 flatcar converted to a snowplow by the Mason City and Clear Lake, later owned by the Iowa Interstate. See messages 46525 and 27798 for this thread. (No, I don't wante to get into this topic again six+ years later.)

Ben Hom









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: COINCIDENCES

John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

In fact, the original negative was taken by R. L. Pitts, a model railroader who lived in Conshohocken and took many interesting pictures in the late 1940s and early 1950s. This one was taken circa 1949 in Fernwood, Pennsylvania, and I believe it was published in Model Railroader soon thereafter. Pitts sold at least some of his negative collection to Roy C. Feld of Jeanette, Pennsylvania, who passed them on to me for printing and safekeeping.

If Paul Dunn was using a camera with a ground glass aiming device, this would bring the camera to about waist level, which would certainly be a kid's perspective if his was already short.



John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: cinderandeight@aol.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 5:07 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES





Ben,
I decline credit for that X28A, it's from John LaRue's collection (neg.
#16561). I don't think Dunn ever got to Philly, so the photographer is
probably a mystery. You can often tell Dunn's shots, they look like they are
shot from the vantage angle of a little kid. I've seen photos of him and he
was very short. For sometime I tried to mimic his shots by shooting from my
knees.
Rich Burg


Re: COINCIDENCES

Tim O'Connor
 

Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor

The photo RVN01407 that Al Brown mentions is posted at the Ronald Nixon
Collection of the Museum of the Rockies, with the caption provided by
Nixon, "Thought you might like a couple of unusual shots. This is NP
12275 and L&A 12275 in 602 at Glendive (MT) in September 1938. Both cars
were loaded with grain for Duluth. Railroad Magazine said the odds of
such an occasion were 782,000,000 to 1."

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN01407

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT


NMRA Conventions

Doug Auburg
 

Doug Auburg wrote:
As a result of discussions about this topic several years ago it was
decided that the simplest and best solution was to not offer "comps"
to clinicians, or layout tour owners. That decision may or may not
have been the "right" one, but it most certainly has made the
organization and administration of conventions easier, saved hurt
feelings of some clinicians, and kept fees down by eliminating the
costs associated with "comping."
Great. Simpler and cheaper convention administration, at the
expense of the volunteer clinician. Not an approach I approve of,
Doug. Fairness in comps or other support is a legitimate worry, but
solving it by stiffing ALL clinicians is a solution which I'd
characterize as simple, appealing, and wrong.



Tony,

You may well be right. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it anymore.




Having said that, I'd love to hear a set of criteria for setting up or
dealing with such reimbursements, should you have some. One only learns by
asking.

Doug

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