Date   

Re: Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

np328
 

   The C Reiss briquette plant was (may still be) in Superior, WI along Winter Street, not far from where the NP's grassy Point bridge was/is.

     Coal transloading was not big in the ports, it was huge. See post 65477 and of that post, it was just the NPs orders. The GN, Omaha, SOO could all have been making the same orders with the DW&P a real question mark.  And the domestic market would have been another matter. Lake coal out of the ports was the single biggest determinant in NP gondola purchasing determinants in an internal 1930 study and again in 1939 when the report was revisited. This for a railroad that shipped much of it's on-line lignite across its system for locomotive fuel.  
 I've wrote some prior on this lake coal in post 55859. 

I gave presentations about coal distribution at the end of the lakes in 2005 at the old HI in Naperville and elsewhere.

Concerning coal and grain loading in the same boxcar. We may have a paradox here. Just as hide service is where boxcars go to die, so is loading coal into boxcars, even bagged. Only boxcars classed as "rough" are used at least for my researched railroad. 

       I am open to enlightenment with solid data, however the only time I ever read of grain and coal being loaded to the same car war in the USRA time frame when a clerk in North Dakota wrote a letter with USRA letterhead to a regional office on how he got a load of coal from the Twin Ports and then had the car swept out and sent back with a load of grain so I honestly do not believe the practice was that common.  
       Please remember even grain not yet milled is checked for inspected for contamination https://www.namamillers.org/education/wheat-milling-process/  

As stated above, I gave presentations in 05 and I have been tapped to give these presentations (updated) again whenever the next St. Louis gathering is. I would offer these to Mike Skibbe and crew also. Whenever it is safe again.                                                                                                                             Jim Dick - St. Paul, MN 


Re: Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 12:27 PM, Mont Switzer wrote:
I wonder if some of the "lake coal" was used to make charcoal.  Lots of that moved (and probably still does) from MN in paper bags for consumer use in small patio grills.
Mont,
Do you by chance mean 'briquettes'? Charcoal is carbonized wood, not coal. I can't even begin to imagine the taste of prime steaks grilled over... soft coal. Yuck!

As to coal briquettes, yes, C. Reiss or somebody had a briquette plant in the twin ports. All the trans loading to get the coal from mine to port, on the boat and off the boat again made a lot of fines, and this was a way to reclaim those fines.

Interesting side story, the first time I saw the Laona & Northern steam train as a kid, the tender had a full load of what looked for all the world like barbecue charcoal. The give-away was the size, coal briquettes are about 2-1/2 inches square, at least these were.

Dennis Storzek 


Re: Tichy's USRA SS Rebuilt P&LE ~ PMcKY 40 foot box

Rich C
 

I almost forgot. You may want to contact Jerry Glow. He is one of the best in the business and can provide P&LE USRA SS Box Car decals. Contact him here:  jerryglow@...

Rich Christie

On Monday, September 14, 2020, 10:16:59 PM CDT, Rich C via groups.io <rhcdmc@...> wrote:


I emailed Ted recently about the same set. He told me he is going to re-release them soon.

Rich Christie

On Monday, September 14, 2020, 07:36:16 PM CDT, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:


Having acquired one of the Tichy USRA SS Rebuilt P&LE box car kits, I found the Speedwitch D107 is no longer available. I really like the Speedwitch decals. Is there an alternative. The Tichy decals I have used in the past are too thick.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek


Re: Tichy's USRA SS Rebuilt P&LE ~ PMcKY 40 foot box

Rich C
 

I emailed Ted recently about the same set. He told me he is going to re-release them soon.

Rich Christie

On Monday, September 14, 2020, 07:36:16 PM CDT, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:


Having acquired one of the Tichy USRA SS Rebuilt P&LE box car kits, I found the Speedwitch D107 is no longer available. I really like the Speedwitch decals. Is there an alternative. The Tichy decals I have used in the past are too thick.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek


Re: Image of C&O 41461 steel gon at coal mine in 1944

bigfourroad
 

Bravo Claus, this is one of about 5,000 such cars all basically the same that C&O rostered into the 1960's. And aren't those Barber 50 ton trucks with spring planks under there?  Are you listening in Jim KIng? An always hopeful S scaler. Chris Rooney


Re: Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

Jared Harper
 

This looks like an expensive specialty device in a time of cheap labor.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

Douglas Harding
 

Here is what I have on the Ottumwa Boxcar Loader, built in Ottumwa, Iowa. Iowa at the turn of the 1900s had a thriving coal industry.

 

W.E. Hunt, of The Ottumwa Iron Works, & Henry Phillips, of Phillips Coal Co, (Ottumwa, Iowa) designed a machine to load coal (and other material) in box cars, which was installed at one of Phillips' mines. The first machine was built at Hardsocg Manufacturing, (Ottumwa.) Then a plant was built at Main & Wapello Streets, (building later used by Nicholls Manufacturing Company.) Ottumwa Box Car Loader Co. was Incorporated in 1906, and company was moved to new location on West Second Street. Company had a fire in 1910, but remained in business. (Company has been out of business for some time now, since coal is no longer mined in the Ottumwa, Iowa area.) Former officers of the company were: Henry Phillips, president; W.E. Hunt, vice president & general superintendent; Philip P. Phillips, general manager & treasurer; Howard Phillips, plant superintendent. Box car loaders were installed at Rock Spring, Wyoming; Fairmont, West Virginia; and Portland, Oregon. Company territory included Canada, as well as United States.

 

PROMINENT CITIZENS from Ottumwa, Yesterday and Today- By Glenn B Meagher and Harry B Munsell, 1923

WILLIAM E HUNT- Inventor; William E Hunt, inventor, supervises the building of the big machines which are the product of the Ottumwa Box Car Loader company. Mr Hunt makes a continuous study of the needs of industry and keeps a few moves ahead of the demand by perfecting new machines to handle heavy burdens expeditiously.

HENRY PHILLIPS- Manufacturer; Henry Phillips divides his time between Ottumwa and Natchez, Miss., having a large plantation near the latter city. Ottumwa, however, still is "home". Mr Phillips had been identified with the community's development for many years before he established the Box Car Loader Company. He was prominently connected with Ottumwa's Coal Palace and is one of two living directors of the exposition.

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 4:18 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

 

Regarding the "widget" - 

The Standard Coal Company operated in Spring Canyon northwest of Helper. The company town there was named Standardville, an experiment in standardized and sanitary construction with all buildings built to the same concrete and ceramic block design.

The coal tipple likewise being thoroughly groundbreaking was equipped with several options for loading: standard chutes for gondolas and open hopper, door chutes for boxcars, and a massive mechanical contraption called the Ottumwa Boxcar Loader. Ottumwa produced more typical conveyor belts for loading cars, but this device was much more elaborate. The boxcars were spotted on a rocker, which would lift them up on one end so that coal could be poured inside. Then appropriate bulkheads were placed and the car was flipped on end to the other side to be filled. The widget is the coupler post that locked onto the car and held it in place while it went on its seesaw ride.


Re: Tichy's USRA SS Rebuilt P&LE ~ PMcKY 40 foot box

Ken Adams
 

Having acquired one of the Tichy USRA SS Rebuilt P&LE box car kits, I found the Speedwitch D107 is no longer available. I really like the Speedwitch decals. Is there an alternative. The Tichy decals I have used in the past are too thick.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek


Image of NYC 434305 and friends at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of NYC 434305 and friends at coal mine. No date given, but I think I can read NEW 10-27 on the side of the hopper.
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


Image of B&O 532495/431735/430677 hoppers at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of B&O 532495/431735/430677 hoppers at coal mine. B&O 430677 appears to be a class W-2B hopper.
 
 
Enjoy!
 
CLaus Schlund
 


Image of C&O 41461 steel gon at coal mine in 1944

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of C&O 41461 steel gon at coal mine in 1944
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


Image of several N&W hoppers at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of several N&W hoppers at coal mine, undated
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


Image of B&O 420966 hopper (end view) at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of B&O 420966 hopper (end view) at coal mine, undated.
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


Image of M 10177 (Montour RR) 40-ton steel gon at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of M 10177 (Montour RR) 40-ton steel gon at coal mine. No date given, but the car has a 1-32 reweigh date.
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


Image of B&O 430716 hopper at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of B&O 430716 hopper at coal mine
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


Re: Image of PMcK&Y 63449 hopper at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Oops, wrong link!
 
Try the link below...
 
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
To: STMFC
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 5:05 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Image of PMcK&Y 63449 hopper at coal mine

Hi List Members,
 
Image of PMcK&Y 63449 hopper at coal mine
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Image of PMcK&Y 63449 hopper at coal mine

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Image of PMcK&Y 63449 hopper at coal mine
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

Josh
 

Regarding the "widget" - 

The Standard Coal Company operated in Spring Canyon northwest of Helper. The company town there was named Standardville, an experiment in standardized and sanitary construction with all buildings built to the same concrete and ceramic block design.

The coal tipple likewise being thoroughly groundbreaking was equipped with several options for loading: standard chutes for gondolas and open hopper, door chutes for boxcars, and a massive mechanical contraption called the Ottumwa Boxcar Loader. Ottumwa produced more typical conveyor belts for loading cars, but this device was much more elaborate. The boxcars were spotted on a rocker, which would lift them up on one end so that coal could be poured inside. Then appropriate bulkheads were placed and the car was flipped on end to the other side to be filled. The widget is the coupler post that locked onto the car and held it in place while it went on its seesaw ride.


Re: Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

Mont Switzer
 

Alex,

 

Back when I was a kid (era addressed in this group) you could purchase bagged coal from Consumers Coal and Ice, in New Castle, IN.   This was available 24/7 thanks to a vending machine built into the front of the business.  You could get bagged ice that way also.  Bring lots of quarters; no bill changers.

 

Consumers was served by the NYC line running between Indianapolis and Springfield, OH.  Coal bags were paper, but I'm not sure where the bags were filled.  Your post has given me an idea as to how that came about.

 

I wonder if some of the "lake coal" was used to make charcoal.  Lots of that moved (and probably still does) from MN in paper bags for consumer use in small patio grills.

 

Mont Switzer   


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Alex Huff [dsrc512@...]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 11:41 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Loading Coal Into Boxcars? (1914)

In 1985 I was asked by a hardware store owner whether it was still possible to receive bagged coal in boxcars.  The market was home heating.  I didn't know and made calls to find out.  The answer was, "Not any more."  I did learn that back in the era covered by this list, it was common.  I talked to a company in Duluth which had bought coal by the ore boat load and had a bagging line.  "We finally scrapped that machinery a couple of years ago."  Boxcar grain from the prairies was trans-shipped into boats at Duluth.  Some of the boxcars returned to the prairies loaded with bagged coal bought by grain elevators who also sold coal.  I don't know what the percentage of loads both ways was.
Alex Huff, retired South Dakota railroader & S scale modeler             


Re: RY Models O Scale C&WC 1800-1944

Rich Yoder
 

Hi Eric,

 So here is the background on the C&WC Ventilated cars and box cars.

The C&WC was controlled by the ACL beginning in 1897. As a subsidiary  It was the ACLs’ primary route to access the L&N – which ran to Chicago.  Reading history on the ACL you’ll find this information. Most of my information comes  from “Lines South” Editor Larry Goosby and an excellent book commissioned by the ACL - SAL  in 1967 written by Glenn Hoffman  Titled  “A History of the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Company” and edited by Richard E. Bussard of CSX. The Complete manuscript for the book was found on a shelf in the CSX Headquarters some 25 years after it was written. Its un clear why it hadn’t been published. It’s an exceptional read.

When it came to car building, The ACL used the shops of 13 various railroads it absorbed over the early years. Having researched the O-17 type ventilated car and the nonventilated cars built back in the day, I wondered why the O-17 cars survived so long after WWII.

I came to realize the loading and un-loading facilities for water melons and other perishable crops were built around the length of the older cars. Many of the O-17 cars were rebuilt following WW II and the end of the Atlantic Coast Dispatch. ( A fast perishable Freight service agreement with the Pennsylvania RR & The Atlantic Coast line)

 Being run as a subsidiary  of the ACL The C&WC vents/boxcars are the C&WC O-13 vents which are the equivalent to the ACL O-17 ventilated cars.  I have only seen photos of the C&WC O-13 vents dating from the 30s to 60s.  I do not know if the C&WC cars were painted and lettered for the ACD or if any were rebuilt.   Still looking for evidence. 

 Early ORERs from the teens & twenties show the C&WC possessed vents that predated the O-13/O-17 design - suspect they were the equivalent of the ACL O-7/O-8 vents or possibly the O-9/O-10 vents.  It has been a while since I made the comparison of the C&WC cars with ACL counterparts.  I would need to revisit to verify the classes.  We also need pre 1929 photos to verify the paint scheme. (Yes, I’m still looking for photographs)

 The C&WC also had an O-18 class which was the boxcar version of the O-13/O-17 and lacked the ventilated door and end ventilators. They were divided into two groups home road cars and others that traveled off the system. Again, I’m still interested in finding more photos. I didn’t come across an ACL version of the C&WC O-18 class boxcar.

Rich Yoder

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Lombard
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] RY Models O Scale C&WC 1800-1944

 

Hello Everyone

This nice O-scale brass model is no longer in production (and it looks like RY Models is no longer in business). Perhaps by a stroke of good fortune someone might have paper work from an original box that gives some information about the history of the cars in series C&WC 1800-1944 and is willing to share a scan? Thanks in advance. 

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL

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