Date   

Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jan 27, 2020, at 19:55, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

[in re: a classic text]

What say you?
Regardless of its particular value to prototype modelers as a reference, it's still One of Those Treasures. Something like that deserves a copy camera rather than a flatbed scanner, and a lo-cal University may have one, with a program in preservation to operate it. It may be appropriate for a grad internship.

FUNEM
SVFM
FUNEX
SVFX
OKMNX


Re: New eBay listing

Clark Propst
 

My apologies for posting during the week. I knew 'sale' posts were to be on the weekend. Unfortunately, the model was finished in then. 

It's a sad fact that more freight car collections are being liquidated. This forum is the prefect place to offer those models when by the list rules, because we are the market.

CW Propst 


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scannin

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 09:02 PM, mark_landgraf wrote:
I'll offer to scan that book. I have large enough scanner to do it...
 
The binder is hinged. Press the lever down and slide it away from you. 
Well, I found the lever, hidden by a loose end of the fabric that covers the spine. It is not budging, but I need more coffee before I try in earnest.

Thanks for the offer to scan, but I think I'll take Bob Webber up on his offer. Those folks are local to me, and the Pullman Library has the means to make it publicly accessible.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 11:41 PM, Dave Nelson wrote:
FWIW, I firmly believe the current copyright duration is obscenely over-long...
I agree completely. Can you say M-I-C K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E?
No Copyright declaration that I've found, yet. I wouldn't expect one. Back when the owner of a work actually had to pay money to secure copyright protection, typically only things intended to make money, like books and magazines, were copyrighted.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Containers From A Gondola Car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Fabulous photos, Claus!

Whose gon? NYC maybe? Do you all know what kind of containers?

Elden "Container Fan" Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Hi Bob and List Members,


Thanks Bob for the reference to that nice image.

Other good images can be found on the site.

Some of my favorites are at the links below.

Unloading containers of lime from gondola onto a truck...

Blockedhttps://aadl.org/node/227351

Blockedhttps://aadl.org/node/227350


UTLX tank car, INFLAMMABLE placard...

Blockedhttps://aadl.org/node/116091


Enjoy!

Claus Schlund


----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <mailto:chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car


Placard: Tin Cans

Just to show that tin can loads were called out for special handling:

Blockedhttps://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N082_0371_001.jpg

Description:

"SCRAP RUBBER COLLECTIONS BEGIN TO LEAVE ANN ARBOR: Proof that Ann Arbor and Washtenaw county residents' efforts in the recently-ended scrap rubber collection campaign were not in vain is offered in this picture which shows the first shipment of scrap to leave the city. Cars shown above being loaded from the 50-ton plus pile gathered at the Staebler-Kempf station depot will carry 18 tons of rubber each to the Rubber Reserve Corp. collection depot in Cleveland from whence it will be turned over to varied rubber companies for reclaiming operations.

Published in Issue

Ann Arbor News, July 29, 1942"

Of course, somebody should have removed the placard after the car was unloaded.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ron;

You probably need this.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

Elden:

That's the summary I was expecting, with regard to where those cars actually were as their reported numbers were declining.

Considering how many resin and plastic cars I'm currently working on, I think I'll set the X28A aside for now. The X26C is coming along well, with the underframe completed and painted, and some of the detail done on the body. The other two X29 rebuilds have the underframes partly done. I like to finish the underframe and add two ounces of weight (half-ounce fishing weights) after I assembly the body sides, roof and ends but before I do much body detailing.

I've taken to substituting more and more plastic parts on resin kits lately, like brake gear and roofwalks, where they're appropriate. The one-piece F&C cars have meant that I don't need to find plastic roofs or ends, which I've even done on some of the more modern Sunshine prototypes.

Ron Merrick


Re: New eBay listing

Donald B. Valentine
 

   Where is the harm in a list member mentioning a listing or another site on which items of use to many of us can be fouind for sale? There are a number of us who have found items we could use through such mentions so what's the problem as long as it is within list rules?

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

Bob Webber
 

Dennis, we would be happy to scan it.... Since it isn't owned by bombardier, that would remove the major impediment in how we share it... We must charge at least what Pullman did and not online for most of the collection as bombardier owns it...for bombardier owned material... Rates haven't gone up for decades.

We could then allow access to it as you wish.  We'd of course like the original, but there are options here not normally there for us... If you want it scanned and keep the scans to preserve it in digital, that's fine too.   You know where we live.  We can scan ledger on flat patten and 3 ft by over 50 ft.  

Pairing drawings with as built and vendor specific drawings would be an entertaining project.

Scanning doesn't cost us... Printing does... And time spent researching and locating and then conserving drawings... In cases like this, with the drawings easily accissible, scanning shouldn't take time.  We get bogged down doing the larger files with the different type and sizes of media, but this... Even with fold outs... Should be OK.

I think any insight into the design process is valuable.

Sent from BlueMail

On Jan 27, 2020, at 9:55 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
It seems just when we started to talk about preserved drawings, the discussion up and died, and while it raised some questions I had, I've not had time to pursue it until now.

This Christmas a long time acquaintance lent me an interesting antique book titled, "American Railway Association, Mechanical Division, Supplement to Manual, Drawings for Cars and Trucks Adopted as Recommended Practice." It is dated June, 1926. Totaling 136 pages, it reproduces 53 plates (drawings) pertaining to the ARA "standard" trucks, three different trucks, in three different journal capacities each, and 256 plates that pertain to the XM1 single sheathed, and XM2 double sheathed "standard" boxcar. This is the complete set of drawings for these two Recommended Practice boxcars, each available in two weight capacities. These drawings detail the cars down to the smallest bolt, pin, and bracket.

Twenty years ago I would have killed for this set of drawings, but now I'm not so sure of their value. In a multitude of places "alternatives permissible" is noted, without detailing what the alternatives are, as they are all vendor supplied parts. From photos it is clear that the actual cars used a plethora of vendor supplied alternative parts, to the point that I suspect that no car was ever built that followed these drawings exactly. Twenty years ago I'd likely have followed these drawings, adapting them to the vendor supplied ends, doors, and roofs that show in the photos, fudging it in the best pioneer model railroading spirit. But today, with the large number of drawings of CARS THAT WERE ACTUALLY BUILT available from a number of archives, it seems that that would be the better source, leaving this book as just a curiosity; a collection of drawings that define the generic "standard" car that was never actually built.

It makes me wonder if they are worth scanning at all, especially since I have yet to figure out how to release the ring binder, which may well be rusted in place. The pages are too brittle to simply bend over double. And, while the cover size is only 10 x 14, a number of the plates are larger, done as fold-outs. Even if I had an 11 X 17 scanner, which I don't, I'm not sure even that would be large enough.

I'm seriously considering that the owner simply donate the book to a suitable library, such as the Pullman Library at IRM, where it could be available to anyone seriously researching the development of the ARA cars.

What say you?

Dennis Storzek


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

Dave Nelson
 

IF it has a copyright declaration then it is still in copyright (January 1, 1925 is the far limit right now for protection).  If it doesn’t it isn’t (as is true for anything not marked up to Dec 31, 1976).

 

The big unknown is if the original was copyrighted but that protection was not renewed.  If that is the case it is the public domain but finding out if it was or wasn’t is often a royal PITA.

 

FWIW, I firmly believe the current copyright duration is obscenely over-long and were it in my hands I’d scan  the drawings and distribute them.  But it is not in my hands so other than you waiting 1 year to see it legally fall into the public domain, it is, essentially, up to you.

 

All the T&C’s can be seen here: https://copyright.cornell.edu/publicdomain

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 7:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

 

It seems just when we started to talk about preserved drawings, the discussion up and died, and while it raised some questions I had, I've not had time to pursue it until now.

This Christmas a long time acquaintance lent me an interesting antique book titled, "American Railway Association, Mechanical Division, Supplement to Manual, Drawings for Cars and Trucks Adopted as Recommended Practice." It is dated June, 1926.


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scannin

mark_landgraf
 

Dennis

I'll offer to scan that book. I have large enough scanner to do it. 

Please contact me off list at
Mark_Landgraf at Yahoo dot com

The binder is hinged. Press the lever down and slide it away from you. 

Mark


On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:55 PM, Dennis Storzek
<destorzek@...> wrote:
It seems just when we started to talk about preserved drawings, the discussion up and died, and while it raised some questions I had, I've not had time to pursue it until now.

This Christmas a long time acquaintance lent me an interesting antique book titled, "American Railway Association, Mechanical Division, Supplement to Manual, Drawings for Cars and Trucks Adopted as Recommended Practice." It is dated June, 1926. Totaling 136 pages, it reproduces 53 plates (drawings) pertaining to the ARA "standard" trucks, three different trucks, in three different journal capacities each, and 256 plates that pertain to the XM1 single sheathed, and XM2 double sheathed "standard" boxcar. This is the complete set of drawings for these two Recommended Practice boxcars, each available in two weight capacities. These drawings detail the cars down to the smallest bolt, pin, and bracket.

Twenty years ago I would have killed for this set of drawings, but now I'm not so sure of their value. In a multitude of places "alternatives permissible" is noted, without detailing what the alternatives are, as they are all vendor supplied parts. From photos it is clear that the actual cars used a plethora of vendor supplied alternative parts, to the point that I suspect that no car was ever built that followed these drawings exactly. Twenty years ago I'd likely have followed these drawings, adapting them to the vendor supplied ends, doors, and roofs that show in the photos, fudging it in the best pioneer model railroading spirit. But today, with the large number of drawings of CARS THAT WERE ACTUALLY BUILT available from a number of archives, it seems that that would be the better source, leaving this book as just a curiosity; a collection of drawings that define the generic "standard" car that was never actually built.

It makes me wonder if they are worth scanning at all, especially since I have yet to figure out how to release the ring binder, which may well be rusted in place. The pages are too brittle to simply bend over double. And, while the cover size is only 10 x 14, a number of the plates are larger, done as fold-outs. Even if I had an 11 X 17 scanner, which I don't, I'm not sure even that would be large enough.

I'm seriously considering that the owner simply donate the book to a suitable library, such as the Pullman Library at IRM, where it could be available to anyone seriously researching the development of the ARA cars.

What say you?

Dennis Storzek


Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

Dennis Storzek
 

It seems just when we started to talk about preserved drawings, the discussion up and died, and while it raised some questions I had, I've not had time to pursue it until now.

This Christmas a long time acquaintance lent me an interesting antique book titled, "American Railway Association, Mechanical Division, Supplement to Manual, Drawings for Cars and Trucks Adopted as Recommended Practice." It is dated June, 1926. Totaling 136 pages, it reproduces 53 plates (drawings) pertaining to the ARA "standard" trucks, three different trucks, in three different journal capacities each, and 256 plates that pertain to the XM1 single sheathed, and XM2 double sheathed "standard" boxcar. This is the complete set of drawings for these two Recommended Practice boxcars, each available in two weight capacities. These drawings detail the cars down to the smallest bolt, pin, and bracket.

Twenty years ago I would have killed for this set of drawings, but now I'm not so sure of their value. In a multitude of places "alternatives permissible" is noted, without detailing what the alternatives are, as they are all vendor supplied parts. From photos it is clear that the actual cars used a plethora of vendor supplied alternative parts, to the point that I suspect that no car was ever built that followed these drawings exactly. Twenty years ago I'd likely have followed these drawings, adapting them to the vendor supplied ends, doors, and roofs that show in the photos, fudging it in the best pioneer model railroading spirit. But today, with the large number of drawings of CARS THAT WERE ACTUALLY BUILT available from a number of archives, it seems that that would be the better source, leaving this book as just a curiosity; a collection of drawings that define the generic "standard" car that was never actually built.

It makes me wonder if they are worth scanning at all, especially since I have yet to figure out how to release the ring binder, which may well be rusted in place. The pages are too brittle to simply bend over double. And, while the cover size is only 10 x 14, a number of the plates are larger, done as fold-outs. Even if I had an 11 X 17 scanner, which I don't, I'm not sure even that would be large enough.

I'm seriously considering that the owner simply donate the book to a suitable library, such as the Pullman Library at IRM, where it could be available to anyone seriously researching the development of the ARA cars.

What say you?

Dennis Storzek


Re: Requesting instructions for Wright Trak Seaboard V10

Donald B. Valentine
 

Lark Cooper wrote: While I’m not a y'all road modeler, one of these neat cars could occasionally make an appearance.

   That could be said even if you were modeling some of the roads in Eastern Canada.

Cordialy, Don Valentine


ADMIN RE: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Folks,

 

The relevant rules are below.  Permit me to summarize:

1.  We permit the announcement of freight car-related items for sale.  These announcements should be kept to a minimum, and inquiries directed off-list.

2. COMPANIES who wish to announce freight car-related items for sale shall post their announcements between noon Friday EST and Saturday 11:59PM EST.

 

In my judgement, Clark Propst’s email meets the spirit and the letter of the rules.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley,

Deputy Moderator, STMFC

 

“Announcements of frt car related items for sale are permitted BUT actual

lists of items should be made available from the seller upon request rather

than in the message. Announcements of such sales should be kept at a

minimum. The primary objective of the group is to exchange information

concerning the subject.

 

Messages regarding the selling of products as part of a commercial

enterprise must be sent during the period of noon Friday EST and Saturday

midnight EST.

 

Each seller is allowed one message unless a correction is needed. Seller

messages MUST include OFF GROUP addresses for replies. Replies by members to

seller messages MUST be OFF GROUP.”

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Huber via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 3:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

 

I read the group description and goals and see no mention of selling, etc. I would prefer this group NOT become flea market but still welcome someone selling kits or completed cars, parts or being made aware of new products. Some folks don't have a lot of contacts in which to be informed about things so we should be able to share here.

 

I would appreciate having a moderator get in this conversation with a YEA or NAY for us.

 

Thanks,

 

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

 

 

 


Re: New eBay listing

Brian Termunde
 

Several of my groups have similar restrictions. The challenge for me is that I do not have internet at home (I spend to much time on it here at work! <G>), and I am off work Thursdays and Fridays, so unless I go to the library and deal with their computers, I cannot post ad's if I wanted to.

Pretty much like I said before, I have little issues with ad's as long as they are limited in number and scope. However, the rules are the rules, and we should honor them.

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah

Re: New eBay listing
From: BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 16:30:10 PST
My $0.02: for sale listings have historically been limited to Friday. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 


Re: New eBay listing

Brian Termunde
 

I'm an N Scaler, modeling the Pacific Northwest, but as long as we aren't bombarded by ads and they are Steam Era Freight Cars, I see no problems with them. One can ignore them, I did go and check it out, even though I was sure it was HO, which it was . . . nicely done car too!

I think that it would be rather hard to try to restrict posts to ONE era or scale, and I don't think that they should be. There are posts all the time that are of no interest to me, but they are to others, and I am fine with that. It's no big deal. Besides, sometimes I learn something despite myself!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah


Re: New eBay listing

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

My $0.02: for sale listings have historically been limited to Friday. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Jan 27, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...> wrote:


Respectfully, I have to say, "why not"? Others have posted about books and new arrival freight car kits or parts so what's the difference? Personally, I don't mind seeing a plug from a member selling something or being advised of a new kit. It's all on the same trail to me to having or building a nice model for my layout. 

Things are posted often I have no interest in and I just hit delete. No pain involved. I'd hate to see another means of acquiring something I "need" be taken away from me/us.

Just my 2¢.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Monday, January 27, 2020, 05:21:13 PM CST, Jake Schaible <jjschaible@...> wrote:


Respectfully, let's not use this board to post advert.  Not all of use model your era and scale.

-J


Re: New eBay listing

Bill Keene
 

Yes. What Bill wrote.

But I thought that sales notices were limited to postings on Friday only. Then again, perhaps I have my groups confused. 

Cheers from “confused most of the time” 
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Jan 27, 2020, at 3:41 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

Actually I enjoy this aspect t if the list.  I have bought several completed models from this modeler for whom I have a great deal of respect.
Had he not called attention to this I would have missed out.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jake Schaible <jjschaible@...>
Date: 1/27/20 1:21 PM (GMT-10:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

Respectfully, let's not use this board to post advert.  Not all of use model your era and scale.

-J


Re: New eBay listing

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

I read the group description and goals and see no mention of selling, etc. I would prefer this group NOT become flea market but still welcome someone selling kits or completed cars, parts or being made aware of new products. Some folks don't have a lot of contacts in which to be informed about things so we should be able to share here.

I would appreciate having a moderator get in this conversation with a YEA or NAY for us.

Thanks,

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works




Re: New eBay listing

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Actually I enjoy this aspect t if the list.  I have bought several completed models from this modeler for whom I have a great deal of respect.
Had he not called attention to this I would have missed out.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jake Schaible <jjschaible@...>
Date: 1/27/20 1:21 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

Respectfully, let's not use this board to post advert.  Not all of use model your era and scale.

-J


Re: New eBay listing

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Respectfully, I have to say, "why not"? Others have posted about books and new arrival freight car kits or parts so what's the difference? Personally, I don't mind seeing a plug from a member selling something or being advised of a new kit. It's all on the same trail to me to having or building a nice model for my layout. 

Things are posted often I have no interest in and I just hit delete. No pain involved. I'd hate to see another means of acquiring something I "need" be taken away from me/us.

Just my 2¢.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Monday, January 27, 2020, 05:21:13 PM CST, Jake Schaible <jjschaible@...> wrote:


Respectfully, let's not use this board to post advert.  Not all of use model your era and scale.

-J