Date   
Re: Earlier runs often better than late runs

Donald B. Valentine
 

Dennis Storzek wrote, "However, for items produced with quality tooling, the millionth part should look no different from the first."

I think this would be true ONLY if the person running the molding machine had enough between their ears to know what they were doing, knows what to do when something doesn't seem "right" and knoiws for sure what not to do. having seen even good steel
tooling damaged when a macine was being run manually and soneone closed it too quickly, i.e before the just molded parts had cleared. Not good.

Cordially, Don Valentine
 

Re: SP&S USRA DS Boxcar Photos

Brian Termunde
 

The three Northern Pacific groups that I belong to are;

npmodelers@groups.io, 

NPRailway@groups.io, 

nptelltale@groups.io, 

HTH!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah

Re: Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

Douglas Harding
 

Jim, it was no secret, just not announced we would be gathering. The subject was the Swift reefer fleet and we were attempting to answer some questions.

 

As to the snubber, I have a photo from the Fairmont Railway Co archives that shows a Cudahy meat reefer equipped with similar rubber snubber that were being developed by Fairmont and Goodyear. A copy of this photo can be seen in page 180 in the Billboard Reefer Book published by Signature Press.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of np328
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 5:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

 

     While at the Chicagoland 2019 RPM gathering and after presentations were complete, I was walking past a room and noted Steve Hile, Doug Harding, Roger Hinman, and a smattering of others gathered in a presentation room with images passing on a screen.
     Of these 3 fellows above gathered in one area, I knew enough not to walk on by and quietly entered and took a seat. I can't reveal the topic at hand as this could be a future presentation in the works by one of these folks however.... for not closing the door or booting anyone out, I will bring a small token of thanks - in these image postings below.    

      Found in an NP file at the Minnesota Historical Society some time ago while on a tangential search, was this clipping of a snubber device for refrigerator cars. I am not how sure wide spread the use of these was however present them here for educational purposes should these ever be found in a photo. Other paperwork in the President's file has an NP Mechanical officer at HQ telling the Como Shops supervisor to order two dozen of these "for testing" in the same 1930's time frame. They look easy enough to reproduce in HO or any other scale. 

   For the rest of you, presented for your amusement....                                                                                                                                                               Jim Dick       Roseville, MN 

Re: How's Tichy doing currently . . .

Tony Thompson
 

fred huss wrote:

I just used Tichy's Milwaukee Road box car decals and didn't notice that they were thick.  I didn't put them over rivets, however.

    Not all their sets are the same, even the ones they got from Jerry Glow. I don't know if they are changing over their production, or if production is just uneven. But DO NOT discard them without careful examination.

Tony Thompson



Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

np328
 

     While at the Chicagoland 2019 RPM gathering and after presentations were complete, I was walking past a room and noted Steve Hile, Doug Harding, Roger Hinman, and a smattering of others gathered in a presentation room with images passing on a screen.
     Of these 3 fellows above gathered in one area, I knew enough not to walk on by and quietly entered and took a seat. I can't reveal the topic at hand as this could be a future presentation in the works by one of these folks however.... for not closing the door or booting anyone out, I will bring a small token of thanks - in these image postings below.    

      Found in an NP file at the Minnesota Historical Society some time ago while on a tangential search, was this clipping of a snubber device for refrigerator cars. I am not how sure wide spread the use of these was however present them here for educational purposes should these ever be found in a photo. Other paperwork in the President's file has an NP Mechanical officer at HQ telling the Como Shops supervisor to order two dozen of these "for testing" in the same 1930's time frame. They look easy enough to reproduce in HO or any other scale. 

   For the rest of you, presented for your amusement....                                                                                                                                                               Jim Dick       Roseville, MN 

Re: Harvesting Dirt Collectors

James E Kubanick
 

Bill

Thanks for that tip as I had a similar problem.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

On Monday, November 11, 2019, 4:46:19 PM EST, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


For about a year now i have been installing the Dirt Collector to the AB Valve. The Dirt Collector is included in the Tichy "AB" Brake Set and on the Styrene Sprue of the discontinued Grandt Line/Detail Associates sets. IT is in some Westerfield kits like the ATSF Bx-11/-12/-13 series of kits.

Today as I was working on my CB&Q XM-17/-18 kit I started to wonder what to do as there was no Dirt Collector in the kits resin AB brake parts I was assembling. I could use a rob a Tichy set or a GL/DA set but I would still be short when I used one of those sets. Hmm. Wait a minute, there are Dirt Collectors on the rear end of the Tichy KC brake cylinder and I have several of those sitting around so i took a closer look. If I clipped it off just so, it would leave a piec long enough to fit into a hole drilled into the resin AB valve I was using. It I trimmed the other end just so, it would be wide enough to drill a #79 hole. The photos show the result.

Now I also have a backup if I drop one of the Tichy or GL/DA parts.

Bill Welch

Re: SP&S USRA DS Boxcar Photos

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Ed:

I tried the NP e-mail with another question but it was not deliverable.  Is there another address?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "spsalso via Groups.Io" <Edwardsutorik@...>
Date: 11/11/19 10:45 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SP&S USRA DS Boxcar Photos

I recommend asking this question at:

SPSRY@groups.io

There is a good chance that there will be an article on these cars in an upcoming quarterly of the SP&S RHS.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Brian Carlson
 

The ones I tried this year went straight into the trash. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 11, 2019, at 4:39 PM, fred huss via Groups.Io <fred_l_huss@...> wrote:

I just used Tichy's Milwaukee Road box car decals and didn't notice that they were thick.  I didn't put them over rivets, however.
Fred Huss

Re: Earlier runs often better than late runs

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 01:02 PM, Paul Woods wrote:
Without pretending to be an expert toolmaker, but speaking as a mechanical engineer with more than a passing acquaintance with manufacturing methods, I believe there can be considerable differences in the properties of the material used to make injection moulds.  Harder materials can be had, which will last practically forever but require expensive manufacturing techniques such as spark-erosion and grinding, because a milling cutter will barely scratch them.  Even a softer material can be made more durable by surface hardening or hard-plating.  On the other side, there are softer materials which can be machined on a milling machine and polished by hand in someone's garage, but obviously won't last as long.  This would explain why some kits never seem to degrade no matter how many have been made.
I was going to state that, but Paul beat me to it. Over the years a LOT of model railroad tooling has been "soft" tooling, because it's cheap.  The choices are, in order of increasing hardness/durability:

Kirksite (a cast zinc alloy)
Brass
Aluminum
Mold steel (a tool steel such as P-20 used in a semi hard state, soft enough to cut with conventional milling, with no further heat treatment.)
Tool steel (which is fully hardened and then worked by Electro Discharge Machining and grinding)

Kirksite could be cast over metal patterns, same as rubber molds are made. If damaged it is not repairable. 

Brass was a favorite of people who came into toolmaking from engraving. A lot of Grandt Line tooling is brass. It is difficult to repair, due to its softness and low melting temperature.

Aluminium is a favorite for CNC machining of cavities because it cuts easy and doesn't break small cutters. The old Front Range line was completely aluminum tooling. It is slightly harder than brass and more easily repaired by welding.

P-20 was a favorite of the old model car manufacturers. It is easily damaged, but weldable.

Tool steel is the gold standard, and welded repairs should be undetectable.

While there are surface treatments that can be applied to give a more wear resistant surface to most of these mold materials, the problem is, in our world, most damage is denting from closing on stuck parts rather than abrasive wear, and surface treatments are ineffective. However, for items produced with quality tooling, the millionth part should look no different from the first.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
 

Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

fred huss
 

I just used Tichy's Milwaukee Road box car decals and didn't notice that they were thick.  I didn't put them over rivets, however.
Fred Huss

Re: PRR 91641, an X29 class boxcar with center bar lettering in 1926

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for sharing the link, Claus! It’s great to find prototype images from the mid-1920s.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 10:50 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PRR 91641, an X29 class boxcar with center bar lettering in 1926

 

Hi List Members,

 

We get a look at PRR 91641, an X29 class boxcar with center bar lettering in 1926

 

A detailed view is available at the link below...

 

 

Image metadata can be found at the link below...

 

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

SLRX

Armand Premo
 

OK,Ok Here's another one Seeking Information on SLRX.'s cars  .A frequent visitor on the Rutland .This Bud's for you,Armand Premo

Harvesting Dirt Collectors

Bill Welch
 

For about a year now i have been installing the Dirt Collector to the AB Valve. The Dirt Collector is included in the Tichy "AB" Brake Set and on the Styrene Sprue of the discontinued Grandt Line/Detail Associates sets. IT is in some Westerfield kits like the ATSF Bx-11/-12/-13 series of kits.

Today as I was working on my CB&Q XM-17/-18 kit I started to wonder what to do as there was no Dirt Collector in the kits resin AB brake parts I was assembling. I could use a rob a Tichy set or a GL/DA set but I would still be short when I used one of those sets. Hmm. Wait a minute, there are Dirt Collectors on the rear end of the Tichy KC brake cylinder and I have several of those sitting around so i took a closer look. If I clipped it off just so, it would leave a piec long enough to fit into a hole drilled into the resin AB valve I was using. It I trimmed the other end just so, it would be wide enough to drill a #79 hole. The photos show the result.

Now I also have a backup if I drop one of the Tichy or GL/DA parts.

Bill Welch

Re: Earlier runs often better than late runs

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Without pretending to be an expert toolmaker, but speaking as a mechanical engineer with more than a passing acquaintance with manufacturing methods, I believe there can be considerable differences in the properties of the material used to make injection moulds.  Harder materials can be had, which will last practically forever but require expensive manufacturing techniques such as spark-erosion and grinding, because a milling cutter will barely scratch them.  Even a softer material can be made more durable by surface hardening or hard-plating.  On the other side, there are softer materials which can be machined on a milling machine and polished by hand in someone's garage, but obviously won't last as long.  This would explain why some kits never seem to degrade no matter how many have been made.

Eliminating flash by facing off the mating surfaces of a mould seems like an act of desperation to me - admittedly one which I might be tempted to do if short on funds and the tooling had not yet earned a reasonable return, but I would have my limits.  I have worked on jobs where badly worn fine-tolerance parts such as shafts that run in plain bearings (NOT 'friction' bearings, that is not an engineering term!) were restored to original size by metal spraying (a bit like welding spatter but finer) and refinishing.  Lesser wear can be restored by metal plating and polishing, but both these methods are more costly than simply skimming the mating faces in a surface grinder.

Regards
Paul

NYCSHS #7172

Re: SP&S USRA DS Boxcar Photos

spsalso
 

I recommend asking this question at:

SPSRY@groups.io

There is a good chance that there will be an article on these cars in an upcoming quarterly of the SP&S RHS.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Nalco Weed Sprayer and tank cars

Douglas Harding
 

Jack’s models are of a Fairmont weed sprayer. I supplied him some photos of the Fairmont Equipment. Fairmont also built a weed burner.

 

The M&StL converted a GE gas electric, GE-25,  to a weed sprayer outfit, with sprayer boom arms at the rear, extra windows cut in the sides, and towed a tankcar full of chemicals. Worked fine until it caught on fire in 1963.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 11:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Nalco Weed Sprayer and tank cars

 

Brian/all,
  These photos seem to be "post 1960" to me.  Among other clues I notice
that in the last of them there is a guy wearing what looks to me like a
fairly modern "safety vest" (yellow/orange).

  I'm not complaining - just asking the question "probable image date?".

  If any of you haven't seen it ... search for images of Jack Burgess's
excellent model of an early weed sprayer.  I think you will find them
easiest if you look in recent (last year or two) PCR convention contest
photos.
                                                                                     - Jim

Earlier runs often better than late runs

Andy Carlson
 

I mentioned once years ago, to my friend Terry Wegmann, that I was looking to get 2 of my most favorite kits of all time--the Bill Gould 4-course tank cars.  I told him that I was only going to purchase kits boxed and sold as Gould kits, as I felt that the parts cast and offered for sale from Tichy to have been cycled more times than earlier runs and was troubled about parts quality. I was half expecting Terry to give me his "are you crazy" response but Terry was in full agreement with my reasoning.

He mentioned an extreme example of later shots from tooling suffering over time was the Cal Scale plastic AB brake set. He said that the mold face of the two tool sides would degrade enough that flashing was getting too severe. Cal Scale's solution was to surface grind the meeting faces to solve the flashing. This repair was apparently done more than once, and Terry said that he could identify what generation of brake shots he looked at by how far from cylindrical the air reservoir component deviated.

So to me both Intermountain and Red Caboose kits should be better in the older color printed boxes than the later non-colored boxed kits. Though I have to admit I often can't see any real differences in these two brands of new vs. older.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Re: PRR 91641, an X29 class boxcar with center bar lettering in 1926

O Fenton Wells
 

Yes three Southern SU and one 40 Southern SU Auto car


On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:58 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
And two cars back on hold XL class boxcar, and then perhaps a Southern car. On the next track over, there are 3 more SOUTHERN cars, followed by a Frisco? and then a couple fo ACL ventilated box cars. Neat photo!

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 11, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
We get a look at PRR 91641, an X29 class boxcar with center bar lettering in 1926
 
A detailed view is available at the link below...
 
 
Image metadata can be found at the link below...
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

SQUARE BRAKE STAFF

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Virtually all flat cars that had a drop brake wheel had a square staff.  Now if we could just find the hardware for this mechanism.

Bill Pardie

Bill P:ardie_,_._,_

Re: PRR 91641, an X29 class boxcar with center bar lettering in 1926

Bruce Smith
 

And two cars back on hold XL class boxcar, and then perhaps a Southern car. On the next track over, there are 3 more SOUTHERN cars, followed by a Frisco? and then a couple fo ACL ventilated box cars. Neat photo!

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 11, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
We get a look at PRR 91641, an X29 class boxcar with center bar lettering in 1926
 
A detailed view is available at the link below...
 
 
Image metadata can be found at the link below...
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund