Date   

Re: Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)

Brian Termunde
 

Bob,
Thanks for sharing this. I especially appreciate knowing some of the background as my uncle worked there for quite some time and it's been a part of Salt Lake for many years. My uncle and his family lived not too far south of the plant (walking distance, although I rather doubt that Uncle Vern would have walked! <G>).

I do want to stress that I am NOT trying to shoot the messenger as the information provided is what's on that very interesting website, however I don't think that it was taken at the actual Gadsby Plant. In the photo;

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6c83287

There's a small hill on the viewers right, the area around the plant, for as long as I can remember. Here's a link to a Google map showing the area;

https://goo.gl/maps/gHHsSy5Phy3yJ7a29

That being said, I am sorry but I cannot offer any suggestion as the the actual location.

Bob, Thanks again for another interesting photo!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah


Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)
From: Bob Chaparro
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2020 08:58:14 PDT
Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)
A photo from the University of Utah Library:
This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description:
The 353-megawatt Gadsby Plant is named for George M. Gadsby, a former president of Utah Power & Light Co., now Rocky Mountain Power. Units 1, 2 and 3 were commissioned between 1951 and 1955 on a 2,500-acre site in Salt Lake City. It was fueled primarily by coal until 1987.
Other views:
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Salt weathering

Jim Betz
 


  ... having just spent almost 2 hours reading prior posts related to galvanized roofs
I will attempt to answer my own questions:

  1) Galvanized roofs were used for most metal roofs starting in the early part of
       the 20th century - and, for the most part, freight car roofs were metal (over
       a wood structure).

  2) Galvanized roofs were in use long before metal running boards.

  3) I did not find a lot of references to peeling paint on dark colors - but did note
      that more than one 'expert' commented how it was less likely to see
      peeling paint in the steam era than after.  The reasons given were varied
      but my reading of it is that it related as much to frequency of maintenance
      (re-painting) as anything else.  The presence of soot and quantities of same
      also had some part to play in this answer.

  All of these questions were aimed at answering "how often should I be using
salt weathering or other techniques to get the peeling paint effect?".  Since my
layout represents the period from just post WW-II to 1955 I have concluded
that I can answer that with "not often" and be OK with that answer for my
layout.

  None of the above is meant, in any way, to be a comment on how well (or
not) salt weathering represents peeling paint.
                                                                                  - Jim


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

Dennis:

That seems quite reasonable.  I have the ARA Proceedings from 1930-32, and I don't THINK this issue is addressed in them.  Someday I hope to catch up to a few more years worth, and might remember to check on the EXW and EXH stencils at that time.  ;-)
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:55 AM, Dave Parker wrote:
So, it seems that the initial idea was not include the "X", but instead the two sets of width and height figures would be differentiated only by the order presented.  Again referring to FOFC 9, I can find a couple of examples of this, but it looks like many roads went ahead and used the "X" to make it unambiguous as to which was which.
Dave,
As I mentioned before, the 1946 CBC presents the same drawing as was presented in the 1922 CBC, but adds the following note in text below the drawing with its included notes:

"Note 1 - 1936 Revision Provides for EXW Stenciling and Notes are Amplified."

The ARA itself may have realized two sets of identical dimensions showing different numbers was confusing and made the change itself in the first couple of years.

This discussion has been informative. Thanks for taking the time to clip parts out of the ARA proceedings and post them.

Dennis Storzek 


Re: Photos: John Cobb's Race Car In A Box On A Flat Car (1938)

CJ Riley
 


Cobb was a perennial Land Speed Record racer at Bonneville.



Re: QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Hi Charlie:

Hope you are staying safe in our new lifestyle.  If possible I would appreciate a copy of 58207.

Thanks:

Bill

Incidently I recently collaborated with George Toman on a Rr-34 refer.  Peter Aue had produced ends and an extensive etched set of parts for use with an Intermountain.  I don't know if you know George. He appeared at Naperville several years ago. He was formerly a narrow gage modeler and had gotten out of the hobby.  He has done many seminars on doing highly detailed plastic and resin models.  I will have to send you some logos of the finished model.

Bill



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: charles slater <atsfcondr42@...>
Date: 9/7/20 9:14 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR

I have 3 photos in my collection of Sk-L cars with end ladders.
Sk-L 58169 Ash Fork, Az. 1923
Sk-L 58207 Oklahoma City, Ok. 1933
Sk-L 58715 1928
Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 11:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR
 
The ones rebuilt and renumbered into the 52000 series certainly did. There were other minor rebuilding programs, so most if, not all probably got ladders, but I have not seen photos showing that. Steve Sandifer should know.

Jim Gates
On Sunday, September 6, 2020, 03:59:14 PM CDT, WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


When delivered these s  stock/coke cars (58000 series)  did not have end ladders.  As the cars lasted into the 1950's were end ladders ever added?

Thanks for any help.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Question On Santa Fe Sk-L Stock Car



Re: Teens and Twenties shipments of Ford cars via box cars

 

Are these Studebakers in this Santa Fe drop bottom gondola?


Re: QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR

charles slater
 

I have 3 photos in my collection of Sk-L cars with end ladders.
Sk-L 58169 Ash Fork, Az. 1923
Sk-L 58207 Oklahoma City, Ok. 1933
Sk-L 58715 1928
Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 11:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR
 
The ones rebuilt and renumbered into the 52000 series certainly did. There were other minor rebuilding programs, so most if, not all probably got ladders, but I have not seen photos showing that. Steve Sandifer should know.

Jim Gates
On Sunday, September 6, 2020, 03:59:14 PM CDT, WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


When delivered these s  stock/coke cars (58000 series)  did not have end ladders.  As the cars lasted into the 1950's were end ladders ever added?

Thanks for any help.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Question On Santa Fe Sk-L Stock Car



Re: QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR

charles slater
 

Yes they did I think in the 1920's.
Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 1:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] QUESTION ON SANTA FE Sk-L STOCK CAR
 
When delivered these s  stock/coke cars (58000 series)  did not have end ladders.  As the cars lasted into the 1950's were end ladders ever added?

Thanks for any help.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Question On Santa Fe Sk-L Stock Car



Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Aley, Jeff A
 

Guys,

 

               Many thanks for delving into these details to find the answer to my question (and confusion)!  I am grateful to your for taking the time.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Parker via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 6:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

 

Dennis, I think you hit the nail on the head.  I am not sure the EXW had to occur above 12 ft, but rather that it be up near the eaves somewhere.  So, a car might have been right at 12 ft to the eaves (or actually the lat running board), but the the relevant widest point could have been the upper door track at something like 11-8 high or thereabouts.  I agree this could account for a lot of the confusion we have been discussing.  It follows then that the EXH dimension for stenciling may not be knowable from the ORER if the reporting road used one of the low protrusions at ~5 ft for the EXH entry. 

I note in passing that some roads seem to have never complied with this part of the standard.  I hoard B&M house-car photos, but have never seen an EXW and EXH stencil on one.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

Dennis:

A good place to see some of the variation in how the EXH and EXW stencils were applied is to leaf through Ted's FOFC volume 9.  Most of the cars there had '34 or '35 reweigh dates, so it's early days. Some cars didn't have these stencils, but many did, and the format varied.  Some of this looks to be simple exigencies due to the presence of the truss members on these SS cars.

I'm not sure what changed in 1936, but note this wording in the 1929 Proceedings:



So, it seems that the initial idea was not include the "X", but instead the two sets of width and height figures would be differentiated only by the order presented.  Again referring to FOFC 9, I can find a couple of examples of this, but it looks like many roads went ahead and used the "X" to make it unambiguous as to which was which.

This is pretty speculative, but I have yet to find anything about these stencils after the 1929 Proceedings.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Photo: OSL Gondola 26799 With Lump Coal (1921)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: OSL Gondola 26799 With Lump Coal (1921)

A photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6q54z70

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Lion Coal Company tipple at, Lionkol, Wyoming.

Interior view:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6qj9rwq

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photos: John Cobb's Race Car In A Box On A Flat Car (1938)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: John Cobb's Race Car In A Box On A Flat Car (1938)

Photos from the University of Utah Library:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s69k4zt1

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s696055p

These photos can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description:

Photo of John Cobb's racing vehicle, the "Railton Mobil Special," in a box on a flatbed train car with an unidentified man standing behind it near the Bonneville Salt Flats Raceway in 1938 (possibly outside Wendover, Utah)

The car:

http://www.railtonwaterspeed.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Cobb-in-Railton-Mobile-Special.jpg

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 10:17 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
No Idea why the B&M did not apply these stencils on so many other cars.  But I think there are other examples out there as well, certainly for individual cars well past the 1930 implementation date.  I hesitate to say this, but I don't see them on any PRR cars in my rather meager collection either.  But then I don't have anything built later than the X29s.
I think the reason was that these are low cars... admittedly your B&M example is 12'-5" to the eaves, but it had also been on the road a few years when the stenciling change was implemented in 1930. The requirement that all cars higher than 12'-0" at the eaves sounds rather arbitrary, and I'm sure that the railroad mechanical officers knew it. They also knew that the intent of the rule was to get these new dimensions stenciled on the new 10'-0" IH cars then being ordered by some roads, and indeed the car builders seemed to be cooperating. Existing cars in the fleet obviously weren't bumping anything and weren't changed

There was some sort of revision in 1936, it's mentioned in the 1946 CBC without saying what was revised, but I suspect that is when the format having the extreme width and height on one line and the eave width and height on the next line was implemented, which is easy to pick out in photos because the top two lines are longer and the block of data looks ragged. There was another variation of this arrangement, much favored by the Canadian National, where the size of the lettering in these two top lines is reduced and condensed so the data block becomes rectangular again. Some photos of 1950's era B&M cars on the Fallen Flags web site show that B&M adopted this practice also in the blue car era.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Salt weathering

Dave Parker
 

If you search the archived messages for "galvanized roof", you get 268 hits.  So it seems like we have covered this topic in the past.

My two cents worth can be found in message 152181. 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Salt weathering

Jim Betz
 

Eric,

  Thanks for sharing John Golden's step by step for salt weathering.

All,

  1)  When did the use of galvanized on roofs become ubiquitous?  I
       associate "peeling paint on the roof" with more modern cars.  Am
       I wrong?

  2) How common/uncommon would it be to see a galvanized roof
      combined with wood roof walks?

  3) John Golden mentions using a dark color for roof cement as a base
       color for salt weathering.  I don't associate dark roofs and peeling
       paint as common.  Am I wrong on that one?

  I suspect that many (most?) freight car models - especially those that
are RTR (or, for me, RTW = ready to weather because every car that I
consider ready to run is also weathered).  It seems like replacing
the roof walks is a common "to do" for our cars if they are the heavily
and accurately researched resin models.
                                                                                        - Jim


Re: N&W 1950 boxcar color

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Jim, That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure.  Wanted an experts opinion
Fenton


On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:00 AM James Brewer <jim.brewer.3611@...> wrote:
Fenton,

I have always used Scalecoat II S2013 Boxcar Red, a/k/a Boxcar Red #1; it is more brown than red; also, Yarmouth Model Works recommends this color for painting their N&W B-5 boxcar kits.

Jim Brewer



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: N&W 1950 boxcar color

James Brewer
 

Fenton,

I have always used Scalecoat II S2013 Boxcar Red, a/k/a Boxcar Red #1; it is more brown than red; also, Yarmouth Model Works recommends this color for painting their N&W B-5 boxcar kits.

Jim Brewer


Salt weathering

Eric Hansmann
 

John Golden shares his salt weathering techniques and results in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 
http://blog.resincarworks.com/salt-weathering/


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: Teens and Twenties shipments of Ford cars via box cars

James Cummings
 

I believe Sylvan offers a 1950's Studebaker also.

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