Date   

another yellow boxcar

 

Sunshine 7.7 is the Wichita Northwestern Mather boxcar.  It is a yellow boxcar.  I built it a long time ago, mainly because when I lived in Wichita I drove along parts of its route.  I use it on my model railroad.  Sunshine also offered a PS&N Mather boxcar - built that too and the C&IM Mather boxcar.


Re: Help with decals

Curt Fortenberry
 


I use Solvaset diluted 50:50 with distilled water.  Only full strength for those specific problem spots.  Even Tamiya thinner X-20a is for a stubborn spot.  

Curt Fortenberry 


Re: No visible attachements

George Courtney
 

My home group had the same problem and the administration put out a request for $10 donations to increase the storage for one year.  They wound up with enough to do two extra and nearly three extra years.

George Courtney


Re: No visible attachements

Dave Parker
 

I belong to 6 groups.io groups.  The other 5 all have an Emailed Photos folder, while this one does not (anymore).

My understanding is that it's a storage quota issue.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Help with decals

Nelson Moyer
 

I use Tru Color for most freight cars, and decal setting solutions can soften the paint with repeated applications, so I always airbrush Model Master Clear Gloss on the areas to be decaled, to produce a smooth glossy surface. I have Future, but I’ve never used it, as we tend to go with what we’re familiar with .

 

Tim pretty much reported the method I use, except I never let a decal float off of the backing paper in water. This is especially important for the new thin decals from Speedwitch, which are prone to curling and require delicate handling. I pour distilled water into a black plastic coffee container lid and let the decal soak just long enough to slide when gently touched with my fine tip blunt nose forceps, then I remove the decal while still on the backing paper and place it on a small piece of paper towel to blot of most of the water. For the thin decals, I place a drop of distilled water on the car where I intend to place the decal (it will bead on a gloss surface), place the decal and backing paper next to the drop of water, and gently slide the decal onto the car surface. Do not use a setting solution for this step with Speedwitch decals per Speedwitch instructions. Next I use a small piece of paper towel to blot off most of the water and place the decal. Then I apply a small amount of Micro Set over the decal and let it wick under the film as I make any additional adjustments to get the decal exactly where I want it. At that point, I don’t touch it again until it visibly dry. Next I wet a brush with Micro Set and gently blot the decal to rewet it, being careful not to exert pressure on the film. I touch any bubbles under the film with  the tip of the brush to push them to the edges of the film, then I let the film dry again enough to see any areas that didn’t settle over rivets or other details or into wood grooves. If settling is necessary, I switch to Micro Sol and repeat the blot technique, allowing the liquid to dry undisturbed. After the Micro Sol  is visibly dry, I inspect the decals for tiny bubbles  or areas that didn’t settle over details under a x7 Optivisor. Usually, that’s enough setting treatment. With thin decals, never try to adjust the position of a wet decal after the first Micro Sol treatment. If you find silvering or bubbles the next day after the decals are thoroughly dry, prick them with a #11 X-acto blade or a sharp fine needle and apply Micro Sol. This works after you’ve sealed the decals with Dullcote if the silvered areas aren’t too large.

 

For all other decals besides Speedwitch, I slide the decal off of the backing paper onto a drop of Micro Set on the car, wick off the excess, then place the decal quickly and let it dry. The rest of the process is as described above.

 

The only tools I use are an X-acto knife handle with a #11 blade to rough cut decals from the sheet, a single edge razor blade to close trim the decals, Dumont fine nose forceps with the tips slightly rounded off, a sharp needle mounted into the end of a ¼ in dowel ( I used my biology dissecting needle until it was no longer sharp), and #2 and 3/0 paint brushes. Supplies include distilled water, paper towels, Micro Set and Micro Sol. I have Solvaset, but I’ve only used it once for some very thick decals that Micro Sol wouldn’t settle completely.

 

The goal is to make the decal lettering look like it was painted on the car. That’s easier with thin films than thicker films, but it can be done.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with decals

 


Yep - what Pierre said!

And ALSO -

use fresh distilled water - tepid warm water seems to work better

make sure the decal slides off the paper or is even floating in the water
  before you pick it up with tweezers - don't drag it off the paper

make sure the car side is clean and free of ALL particles - and of course
  a glossy smooth finish is best (easiest)

wet the car side before applying the decal and use your solution generously
  and (capillary action) siphon off excess slowly with a Q tip or piece of paper towel
  while making fine adjustments to the location

let it mostly dry and adhere, and wet it again - at this stage I like to use
a strong setting solution. I may do this several times with a stubborn decal or
trying to conform to a rivet or rib






On 4/21/2020 3:16 PM, Pierre Oliver wrote:

What paint did you use? And how long did you let it dry?
If it's Scalecoat you need to let it fully cure for 3-4 days.
It looks like lots of blushing, brush MicroSol(red bottle) and poke at all the blushing with a sharp pin or knife tip. You want setting solution in behind the entire decal.
It takes persistence

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 2020-04-21 3:10 p.m., Chuck Cover wrote:

Group,

I have problems with the decals on some of my freight car builds.  I have attached a photo of one of my models and in places you can see the decal film between the lettering where it ideally should be invisible.  On some models this does not occur, on others, as this D&H boxcar, there is some sheen visible.  Are there specific steps that can be taken to prevent this?  If this occurs after decal application, are there ways to make it disappear?  Thanks in advance.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: No visible attachements

George Courtney
 

Thanks for the info, Tom.  I tried the quoted text tonight on the decal problem and must have missed it somehow.
I found the same on going to the Photos album.  Great site and full of good info.  This is was a request for help and in no way a complaint.

George Courtney


Re: No visible attachements

Tom Madden
 

Yep. Same here. But if there's a followup post and you click on "Show quoted text", the quoted text will include a link to the photo. (See Tim O's followup to Clark's post with the Sophocles Marty attachment.) Also there's no longer a separate folder in the <Photos> area for emailed/attached photos. At least there's not one in the first Album position where it used to be.

Tom Madden


No visible attachements

George Courtney
 

I come to this list directly and not through my e-mail.  I've noticed lately that no attached photos show up.  Even if the message is tagged as having an attachment.  Is anyone else having that problem or am I one of few who come directly, i.e. no e-mail to the site?

Thanks,
George Courtney


Re: Help with decals

Mark Vinski
 

When decals float off of their backing paper in water I use a wide tool such as a large Xacto blade, wide paint brush, or a styrene strip to retrieve them. The film does not curl around a wide tool as easily as it does around a narrow one.

I've had decal ink run occasionally but it did not produce any kind of realistic effect. It looked more like a puddle of ink.

Mark Vinski


Re: Help with decals

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

No one has mentioned RUNNING colors. I have had dark colors of large decals (like
giant UNION PACIFIC letters) actually RUN while the decal is wet! Quick, grab the paper
towels and Q-Tips and soak it up!!

     What a GREAT technique for deteriorating lettering! Sounds terrific!

Tony Thompson




Re: Barriger Library AC&F Photos

Tony Thompson
 

Rob Simpson wrote:

I don't think I've seen an insulated tank like this USOX 17021. Tennessee Eastman Corp. Holston Ordanance Works nitric acid loading.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49618638478/in/album-72157649155982802/

     Used in the 1920s for heavy acids like nitric and sulfuric, supposedly to let vapors sink out the bottom. Or something. That explanation always seemed lacking to me. But they were common at one time.

Tony Thompson




Re: Help with decals

Dave Parker
 

Chuck:

I agree that Solvaset seems to be a bit stronger than the Microscale products (and red is stronger than blue).  I haven't had it eat any decals, but then I don't use it very often.

I agree with Schuyler but actually find double edge razor blades (the ones for shaving) to be finer and sharper.  The SERBs that I have bought in bulk are, I think, more suited to paint scrapers and the like.  YMMV.

Best regards.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Help with decals

hubert mask
 

Stay away from solva set. It loves to eat most decal paper.  Micro set is not as harsh and gives you time to play with the decal until you get it set.

Hubert Mask


On Apr 21, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Help with decals

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Already dullcoated . . .

*sigh*

Yes, it can be done, but it ain’t easy, and it can be a bit scary.  As I mentioned before I use a single edge razor blade, as it’s sharper than most anything else.  Pull the blade directly though the area that’s showing the blush, hard enough to get through both the dullcoat and into the decal.  Then flood the area with the decal setting solution, and see if it will bleed through your cut under the decal.  If so, that’s good, but it will take a longer time to dry  You’ll probably have to do this a fair number of times.

 

This also tends to result in a car that would benefit from some strategic weathering.  OTOH, you may find that once you’ve dealt with the blushing, you could overspray a light coat of the base color to “fade” the lettering some, and hopefully minimize the blushing. 

 

To respond to your query about which decal solution, I use both, favoring Solvaset for the “sticker” level of decal, and using the Micro Sol/Micro set system for more delicate decals.  Champ Decal Set was my favorite, though.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chuck Cover
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with decals

 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Help with decals

Chuck Cover
 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: ACY

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Schuyler,

    The AC&Y #3179 appears to be a type of Mather car I am not famiiar with but I agree, it's a car
with character and kind of neat. Think it was an older type attemted to look it up in my April 1948
ORER only to find the #1300 series ended at #3149. The July 1947 ORER yeilding the same result
prompted me to look back at the January 1938 ORER in which the series is not even listed! So I 
went the other way and checked a July 1959 ORER and dure enough, the sderies was there with 
50 cars in the #3150 -3199 series all having duplicate dimensional figure to the #1200 - 3149 group.
This strikes me as strange given that they appear to be an older style of build than the #1260 car 
from the previous group. Wjile the dimensions may al be the same, as the car itself may be from 
the floor down they certainly are different above the floor! Do we have a Mather expert who can
shed more liight on why the changes in construction were made and wi9ch group was actually 
constructed first?

Don Valentine


Re: ACY

william darnaby
 

This car was offered by Sunshine.  I have one running on the railroad…someplace.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ACY

 


Can this ACY car be modeled? Yes. Without scratcbuilding? No.



On 4/21/2020 1:23 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

However, not all ACY cars got yellow paint . . .

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acy/acy3179ajw.jpg

 

What a  wonderfully modelable car!!

 

Schuyler

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rebuilt Double sheathed boxcars using Youngstown Steel wi

Eric Lombard
 

Hello, Don - and other interested folks,

Attached is a spreadsheet exported from my database. The criterion for selection to export was "inset side sill" and/or "with brackets". The count is 275 series including those RBLT and series RENO from those RBLT.. All side panel and door arrangements are included. (By the way, ACF also appears to have produced kits). 

I would consider this a "quick and dirty cut" that may include a few series that are not appropriate and may have missed a few that are. It is also likely that I have not have come across some and so are not yet in the database. Finally, I have not vetted the output to check on validity of inclusion.

If this becomes considered a good start, then I would be happy to focus on cleaning it up and adding/deleting data that all of you at home with nothing to do might provide. ;-) 

You can sort the spreadsheet any way that you like: As exported it is alpha by marks and then ascending by lowest serial number.. By double clicking on the SERVICE cell the full contents will drop down. I think that most of the cells will be interpretable to those who speak freight car. Happy to explain the inevitable cryptic abbreviations. I would recommend downloading the file and then opening it. I have found that Double clicking on the file in in the email may give you a funky result.

Enjoy or curse, depending

Eric L
Homewood, IL

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:22 AM Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello again folks,

    As most of us are aware, a nimber f roads rebuiilt doble sheathed boxcars especially
in the ten years from 1935 to 1945 using Youngstown Steel Kits of new steel sides that 
allowed the reuse of the complete underframe and trucks in addition to the ends and roof
if desired. Some of the new sides were ten panel and some were eight panel. I presume
that the number of panels per side was determined by the framing of the car to be rebuilt 
but amd not certain of this and am trying to determine if this is the correct reasoning. The
original idea behind such sides was the reconstruction of USRA double sheathed cars but 
again as most of us know there were a lot of 40 ft. double sheathed cars construced as late
as the early 1930's that appear to have been good candidates for such rebuilding. Thus I 
am tryng to determine what roads rebuilt any of their USRA doubjle sheathed cars and
what roads rebuilt similar cars. Whether or not the cars had a fishbelly underframe and
what type of end and roof the non=USRA cars had is also information being sought as is
the road number before and after the cars were rebuilt together with the year the original 
car was built and the years in which they were rebuilt.

    Some of this information is available for the USRA cars but is more difficut to find for
 non-USRA cars. I'm truing to create a chart with as much of this informatin included as 
can be found. Thanks for any assistance anyne can provide.

Don Valentine


Re: Barriger Library AC&F Photos

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Wasn’t that a wood kit, Don?  Northeastern?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:15 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Barriger Library AC&F Photos

 

    Actually Monsanto Chemical had a car of two like the Eastman car that operated out of their

plant in Revere. Mass., just north of Boston. Years ago someone made a foil wrapper for a kit 

of these cars. I suspect foil becase the cars were painted silver with black lettering. The tank 

cover was virtually the same but the dome was a bit different.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Barriger Library AC&F Photos

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    Actually Monsanto Chemical had a car of two like the Eastman car that operated out of their
plant in Revere. Mass., just north of Boston. Years ago someone made a foil wrapper for a kit 
of these cars. I suspect foil becase the cars were painted silver with black lettering. The tank 
cover was virtually the same but the dome was a bit different.

Cordially, Don Valentine

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