Date   
Tichy 52" War emergency gondola kit

Walter Cox
 


All the recent posts on Gondolas made me think of the Tichy War Emergency kit and whether any of the roads that had them would have not replaced their wood sides with steel  by 1959. Does anyone know of  a resource that I could refer to to find out if this model could be used on a 1959 dated layout ?

Duryea UF applications

Earl Tuson
 

A couple weeks back, I had bumped into Ted Culotta at his booth at the Springfield show, and taken a
moment to peek at his M26D/E Duryea underframe parts. When I inquired about the B&M’s 25 steel ARA
cars and their Duryea underframes, he astutely pointed out that the same builder built the B&O’s cars, and
that it would be a safe bet that the B&M cars had identical under-frames (and, Ted, the drawings are
indeed published: 1931 CBC, page 348, and TS 48.) Once back home, I got to thinking more about such
things and visited the Duryea page on the old steamfreightcars webpage.

One omission on the all-time-roster shown there are the B&M’s 25 N5b clones built in the Concord shops
from kits in 1932, #104700-104724. Did any of the PRR cars have Duryea UF??

As I understand it, the Duryea design varied over time from a solid cross member to an open assembly and
back to a different solid style. In S scale, we are able to obtain underframe castings from SMMW’s M-53
kit. Can anyone assist in identifying which Duryea designs would have been under the following cars:

LV 75635, a “wrong way” door car rebuilt 1935-6,
MP 31486, a ‘32 AAR from 1937 (open?),
B&O 285471, an M-56 built 1952 (late solid?)

TIA,
Earl Tuson

Re: Flat Black

Jon Miller
 

On 2/13/2019 7:13 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
but only two are "white washed" for a photo. (see attached)

On the other hand, this tank car photo - GRCX 3200 - appears to be a black car that has been oversprayed
with something to make all the details visible. (see attached)

    While I don't doubt any of the explanations for the pictures. I am interested in the first  2 of Tim's photos.  Why is the lettering black.  Did they spray it with wash off paint to have the black letter remain?  As the pictures are trimmed around the car, if the car was very dark and the lettering was white, then a reversed neg (with a good person doing the print) would come out as the picture shows.  If you notice on the gon the track is all drawn  in.  There is a lot more done on these photos (by expensive people) then just gray, washable paint.

  The 3rd pictures makes sense for an overspray.  Before retiring I worked for a company that had photographic engineers that could do magic (I saw some of it) with B&W negs!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Truck Journal Conversions

W.R.Dixon
 

On 13/02/2019 10:09 a.m., John Hagen via Groups.Io wrote:
I’m surprised that these weren’t more readily available before now.
Trains Canada did them years ago. Was a truck with no journal lids so you could see the roller bearing inside. They came with plug in journal box covers if you didn't want the roller bearing conversion.

Central Hobbies in Vancouver, BC has many of them in stock.

Bill Dixon

Re: Flat Black

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 07:13 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
On the other hand, this tank car photo - GRCX 3200 - appears to be a black car that has been oversprayed
with something to make all the details visible. (see attached)

Therefore, I submit there was more than one technique in use!
I agree. The "whitewashed" cars were likely done with calcimine (google it) a water based mixture of slaked lime and powdered chalk that could be applied with a brush. I suspect adding lampblack to calcimine would result in a "gray wash" or even "black wash" if enough were added. Typical spotting feature of calcimine (at least in old houses) is a flat, chalky appearance, and the fact that painting over it with anything containing water makes it come off; as would a good wash. Yeah, it's extra work, but in the early days of the twentieth century labor was cheap and photography was not, so if it was worth taking photos for promotional purposes, it was worth taking photos that showed the detail.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Flat Black

Tony Thompson
 

To choose a single example, Ed Kaminski, an AC&F employee, describes “builder gray” as washable gray used only for photos. 
Tony Thompson 


On Feb 13, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


How could anyone know the answer unless there is a contemporaneous account that describes it?
The practice was certainly not applied to all freight cars - I have dozens of builder photos from the
1920's, but only two are "white washed" for a photo. (see attached)

On the other hand, this tank car photo - GRCX 3200 - appears to be a black car that has been oversprayed
with something to make all the details visible. (see attached)

Therefore, I submit there was more than one technique in use!

Tim O'


On 2/13/2019 8:07 PM, Paul Woods wrote:
Really?  Could you please enlighten me as to where you learned this from?  I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just that I have never heard of wash-off paint being used; in all the examples I have encountered, the gray paint used was treated like a primer, with gloss black or whatever other livery was in favour being applied over the top after the photographs were done.

Regards
Paul




     That "photo gray" was a paint that could be washed off with water after photography was finished. Neither locomotives nor cars were EVER delivered that way.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
<np_5474_50ft_DD_box_SS_PSC_builder_10-1924.jpg>
<up_99780_48ft_gondola_G-50-9_builder_1925.jpg>
<grcx_3200_1-dome_tank_8k_SSC_builder_GulfRefiningCo_3-1923.jpg>

Re: Flat Black

Tim O'Connor
 


How could anyone know the answer unless there is a contemporaneous account that describes it?
The practice was certainly not applied to all freight cars - I have dozens of builder photos from the
1920's, but only two are "white washed" for a photo. (see attached)

On the other hand, this tank car photo - GRCX 3200 - appears to be a black car that has been oversprayed
with something to make all the details visible. (see attached)

Therefore, I submit there was more than one technique in use!

Tim O'


On 2/13/2019 8:07 PM, Paul Woods wrote:
Really?  Could you please enlighten me as to where you learned this from?  I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just that I have never heard of wash-off paint being used; in all the examples I have encountered, the gray paint used was treated like a primer, with gloss black or whatever other livery was in favour being applied over the top after the photographs were done.

Regards
Paul




     That "photo gray" was a paint that could be washed off with water after photography was finished. Neither locomotives nor cars were EVER delivered that way.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Seeking Help On An SP Auto Car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

At least in New England, it’s called WWF, for Welded Wire Fabric.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 1:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Seeking Help On An SP Auto Car

 

Tim:

 

Thank you very much for the information! 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Seeking Help On An SP Auto Car

 

Gary

I think it is steel "mesh" - commonly used to reinforce cast concrete. The
material is steel wire laid out in a grid, so the pieces are very flexible
even when stacked up like that


On 2/13/2019 12:14 PM, gary laakso wrote:

What is the very unusual load in the gondola in the picture?  Think rolled steel?

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 4:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Seeking Help On An SP Auto Car

 


Bill as far as I know, the cars had rectangular panel roofs. This one does.

Tim


On 2/12/2019 9:10 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

 

I posted this question a short time back an it is p mb e of the very few times that I did not receive a response.  I am doing a Sunshine kit of a Southern Pacific A-50-16 40' auto car.  It has been in my pipeline for a while.

 

This is a good thing as I assembled  the body with a flat panel roof.  I recently learned that the car needed a diagonal panel roof and Andy Carlson came to my rescue.  I remember receiving some information earlier that the kit under frame was not correct.  Can anyone direct me to some accurate information an the under frame (cross members and appliance) layout.

 

I hope to have better luck this time.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Flat Black

Tony Thompson
 

Histories of both Lima and Baldwin mention it. So do the histories of AC&F and P-S. I have never seen it identified as primer.
Tony Thompson 


On Feb 13, 2019, at 5:07 PM, Paul Woods <paul@...> wrote:

Really?  Could you please enlighten me as to where you learned this from?  I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just that I have never heard of wash-off paint being used; in all the examples I have encountered, the gray paint used was treated like a primer, with gloss black or whatever other livery was in favour being applied over the top after the photographs were done.

Regards
Paul


---- On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:28:35 +1300 Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote ----



     That "photo gray" was a paint that could be washed off with water after photography was finished. Neither locomotives nor cars were EVER delivered that way.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Flat Black

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Really?  Could you please enlighten me as to where you learned this from?  I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just that I have never heard of wash-off paint being used; in all the examples I have encountered, the gray paint used was treated like a primer, with gloss black or whatever other livery was in favour being applied over the top after the photographs were done.

Regards
Paul


---- On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:28:35 +1300 Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote ----



     That "photo gray" was a paint that could be washed off with water after photography was finished. Neither locomotives nor cars were EVER delivered that way.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Flat Black

Tony Thompson
 

Paul Woods wrote:

John, are you sure about the flat black thing?  All the builders photos I have ever encountered for which the colour of the loco is actually described, from various different builders, have talked of being painted 'photographic gray' to make the details visible, not black.

     That "photo gray" was a paint that could be washed off with water after photography was finished. Neither locomotives nor cars were EVER delivered that way.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Truck Journal Conversions

Tim O'Connor
 


If you mean roller bearing conversion trucks, Eastern Car Works and Model Die Casting (Roundhouse) made them.


On 2/13/2019 6:00 PM, Charlie Vlk wrote:

All-

I think this is the first time anyone in any scale has made these common trucks….sure wish somebody would do them in N Scale as well…hint, hint, wink, wink!!!
Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Journal Conversions

 


largest image I could find -

https://www.rapidotrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Rapido-102061.jpg


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Truck Journal Conversions

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

I think this is the first time anyone in any scale has made these common trucks….sure wish somebody would do them in N Scale as well…hint, hint, wink, wink!!!
Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Journal Conversions

 


largest image I could find -

https://www.rapidotrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Rapido-102061.jpg

On 2/12/2019 9:04 PM, Rich C via Groups.Io wrote:

Steve, Rapido makes them

 

Rich Christie

 

 

HO Scale Freight Car Trucks - Rapido Trains Inc.

HO Scale Freight Car Trucks Rapido offers a variety of HO scale Freight car Trucks, all equipped with our own fr...

 

 

 

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019, 7:35:16 PM CST, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

 

 

It seems to me that many moons ago MDC made an AAR-style truck with the journal box doors removed to represent a conversion to roller bearings.   I needed a pair for a project I did (a Conrail GSC depressed center flat car).  If I remember correctly, I found a pair on True-Line trains website and got them thru them.   They aren't there now though....

Steve Kay

 

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

FGEX Hutchins roof

Earl Tuson
 

Several years ago, fellow S scaler Pieter Roos commissioned a Hutchins roof, as used on FGEX/WFEX/BREX
reefers rebuilt in the 30’s, to be manufactured as a urethane casting. The roof design features a fastener
head located in a depression at the very end of the roof rib at the eave, as shown in the attached image,
rather unlike the fastener at mid-rib on, for example, a Hutchins Dry Lading roof. Are there any known
examples of such a roof design used on other house cars beyond the reefer companies’ cars? I obtained
some additional examples of Pieter’s castings well in excess of the number of such reefers I’d ever need to
build, and would be interested in splicing them and using them on box cars if the opportunity exists.

Earl Tuson

Re: Flat Black

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

John, are you sure about the flat black thing?  All the builders photos I have ever encountered for which the colour of the loco is actually described, from various different builders, have talked of being painted 'photographic gray' to make the details visible, not black.

Regards
Paul Woods



---- On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 07:15:01 +1300 John Hagen via Groups.Io <sprinthag=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote ----

Yes, the only time I’ve seen really “flat” has been on some builders’ photos of Alco steam locos. They would paint one side black and photograph that side so all the “detail” would show in the photo. After the photo shoot the loco would be returned to the paint shop to have glossy paint applied. I do have some of those builders photos.

I believe this was done by other loco builders too.

John Hagen



Re: Flat Black

John Hagen
 

Yes, the only time I’ve seen really “flat” has been on some builders’ photos of Alco steam locos. They would paint one side black and photograph that side so all the “detail” would show in the photo. After the photo shoot the loco would be returned to the paint shop to have glossy paint applied. I do have some of those builders photos.

I believe this was done by other loco builders too.

John Hagen

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Hees
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 10:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Black

 

Does everyone realize that "Flat" black was not a color used by railroads.. it is a color used by modelers...   Linseed oil paints were naturally semigloss to glossy... but weathered to flat... 

Randy Hees... 

Re: Truck Journal Conversions

John Hagen
 

I’m surprised that these weren’t more readily available before now.

Back in the late 80’s I bashed a model of the two Thrall steel bay window cabooses (613/113 & 614/114) bought by the Green Bay & Western.

These were purchased as kits and built at the Norwood shops. They used plain bearing trucks but did eventually change to converted trucks, at least on one of them. I used roller bearing trucks I converted by using plain bearing journals I cut off some trucks I had around. Then O drilled out the covers and filed the opening square. Then I had to remove a lot of material from the opening using files and dental tools to get them to fit around the roller bearing castings. I also had to do some filing around the base of the roller bearings but did not have to remove anything from any visible parts of the roller bearings.

Overall, they turned decent enough for who they were for (me). But it was a lot of work that had to be done 8 times!

Believe me if do another, something I’ve been wanting to do since I did the first, which was for a friend, I will use Rapido trucks.

John Hagen

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rich C via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 8:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Journal Conversions

 

Steve, Rapido makes them

 

Rich Christie

 

 

 


HO Scale Freight Car Trucks - Rapido Trains Inc.

HO Scale Freight Car Trucks Rapido offers a variety of HO scale Freight car Trucks, all equipped with our own fr..

 

 

 

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019, 7:35:16 PM CST, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

 

 

It seems to me that many moons ago MDC made an AAR-style truck with the journal box doors removed to represent a conversion to roller bearings.   I needed a pair for a project I did (a Conrail GSC depressed center flat car).  If I remember correctly, I found a pair on True-Line trains website and got them thru them.   They aren't there now though....

Steve Kay

Re: Seeking Help On An SP Auto Car

gary laakso
 

Tim:

 

Thank you very much for the information! 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Seeking Help On An SP Auto Car

 

Gary

I think it is steel "mesh" - commonly used to reinforce cast concrete. The
material is steel wire laid out in a grid, so the pieces are very flexible
even when stacked up like that



On 2/13/2019 12:14 PM, gary laakso wrote:

What is the very unusual load in the gondola in the picture?  Think rolled steel?

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 4:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Seeking Help On An SP Auto Car

 


Bill as far as I know, the cars had rectangular panel roofs. This one does.

Tim



On 2/12/2019 9:10 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

 

I posted this question a short time back an it is p mb e of the very few times that I did not receive a response.  I am doing a Sunshine kit of a Southern Pacific A-50-16 40' auto car.  It has been in my pipeline for a while.

 

This is a good thing as I assembled  the body with a flat panel roof.  I recently learned that the car needed a diagonal panel roof and Andy Carlson came to my rescue.  I remember receiving some information earlier that the kit under frame was not correct.  Can anyone direct me to some accurate information an the under frame (cross members and appliance) layout.

 

I hope to have better luck this time.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Memory help with Pan Pastels presentation

Bill Welch
 

Rob was definitely the first person and he continues with his PP tips on Facebook.

Bill Welch

Re: Memory help with Pan Pastels presentation

Lester Breuer
 

Rob Manley is the name I remember from Naperville.
Thank You all for your help.
Lester Breuer