Date   

Water Towers on top of Buildings

niccolise1976@ymail.com
 

Hello

I am turning to this group because I am hoping to find photos showing how water tanks/water towers are attached to the top of roofs on buildings.

I tried to use YAHOO and got too much junk. So many of you have excellent reference material. Do any of your photos show us how to properly model to the prototype water towers on the roof? Most model railroaders have towers on structures.

How do you model the pipes coming out of the tower into the roof?

I model in HO scale. I plan to use the Atlas(prototype)Middlesex Manufacturing Company and cut down the Tichy(prototype) water tower.

Thank you in advance for helping us model the prototype.

Timothy


Re: Black Car Cement on roofs

Scott Pitzer
 

FWIW, somewhere there was an article about New Haven's first AAR 10'0" IH boxcars, which had the running board in segments fitting between, not on top of, the "roof ribs" / carlines(?) due to tight clearances.
Scott Pitzer

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pullmanboss" <tcmadden@...> wrote:

Who some of the roads that applied black car cement on their boxcar roofs during repaints or as maintenance? I know PRR and RI did any others come up? I've been playing around with black and white oils paint to replicate the weathering on this roof where the black car cement is coming off the roof.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-frc.jpg

Charlie Duckworth

Interesting car. Wood roof walk and laterals, and a Morton brake platform. And the roof walk is made entirely of short boards one roof panel (width) long.

Tom Madden, more curious about the construction of the roof walk than the deteriorating car cement.


Re: NYC wreck (was Black Car Cement on roofs)

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

Oops, my bad. I got turned around. The "i" photo is a different
car, although it might be the same Lot as the "d" "e" "f" car.

Tim

You're right Tom, it is a NYC car, as this view shows part of
the NYC reporting marks behind the man's right shoulder
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-erc.jpg

Verrrrryyy interesting.... :-) Now the mystery is, why does a car
with 4/4 dreadnaught ends have wood running boards, since they were
outlawed for new car construction before anyone began using 4/4 IDE
ends??

Now, 8xxxx (5-digit box cars) tended to be 40' rebuilds of older cars.
Looking at your photo, the number of roof panels is consistent with a
50' box car http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-drc.jpg

This may be it: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-irc.jpg

There was Lot 742-B, 50' single door box cars built in 1946, e.g. NYC 80868
(Railway Age Jan 1947). These cars were specially equipped, which may account
for the horizontal rows of rivets shown in the photo.

Still, this does not settle the mystery of wood running boards and a modern IDE.

I imagine that steam loco with elephant ears was a Niagara (4-8-4) or
a Mohawk (4-8-2).

How would you have liked to watch this whole wreck from the vantage of
that crossing guard's tower? :-)

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 14 pictures in that wreck sequence. It was obviously on the NYC,
and in the last photo of the sequence an in-service NYC steam engine (with
elephant ears - I'm not familiar enough with NYC steam te say what it is)
passes by. In the <-frc.jpg> portion of the link below, just substitute
letters "a" through "n" for the "f" to see the rest of the photos. Some
really interesting stuff there.

Photo "d" is of the A end of the subject car. It's fairly low resolution, but
by processing the image I can make out what looks like the letters N and Y above
the number 80735. It also appears to have 4/4 IDE ends. Was there an NYC 80735???

Tom Madden

--- Tim O'Connor wrote:

Tom

P&LE 30500-30999 and Virginian 63000-63999 had wood running boards
w/ Morton brake platforms. Both are 10'0"IH 1937 AAR box cars.

However the car in the photo can't be P&LE 30500-30999 because those
particular cars had a raised roof stamp on the end panel opposite to
the lateral running board, unlike all other rectangular panel roofs
except for LS&I 2201-2225 which also had this feature.

I can't make out the ladder rungs or hand brake, but the VGN cars
had 7-rung ladders and pre-1949 Universal hand brakes. Known dates
of wrecked VGN cars include #63010 9-1956 on the New Haven.

Tim O'Connor
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-frc.jpg
Interesting car. Wood roof walk and laterals, and a Morton brake platform. And the roof walk is made entirely of short boards one roof panel (width) long.

Tom Madden, more curious about the construction of the roof walk than the deteriorating car cement.


Re: NYC wreck (was Black Car Cement on roofs)

Tim O'Connor
 

You're right Tom, it is a NYC car, as this view shows part of
the NYC reporting marks behind the man's right shoulder
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-erc.jpg

Verrrrryyy interesting.... :-) Now the mystery is, why does a car
with 4/4 dreadnaught ends have wood running boards, since they were
outlawed for new car construction before anyone began using 4/4 IDE
ends??

Now, 8xxxx (5-digit box cars) tended to be 40' rebuilds of older cars.
Looking at your photo, the number of roof panels is consistent with a
50' box car http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-drc.jpg

This may be it: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-irc.jpg

There was Lot 742-B, 50' single door box cars built in 1946, e.g. NYC 80868
(Railway Age Jan 1947). These cars were specially equipped, which may account
for the horizontal rows of rivets shown in the photo.

Still, this does not settle the mystery of wood running boards and a modern IDE.

I imagine that steam loco with elephant ears was a Niagara (4-8-4) or
a Mohawk (4-8-2).

How would you have liked to watch this whole wreck from the vantage of
that crossing guard's tower? :-)

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 14 pictures in that wreck sequence. It was obviously on the NYC,
and in the last photo of the sequence an in-service NYC steam engine (with
elephant ears - I'm not familiar enough with NYC steam te say what it is)
passes by. In the <-frc.jpg> portion of the link below, just substitute
letters "a" through "n" for the "f" to see the rest of the photos. Some
really interesting stuff there.

Photo "d" is of the A end of the subject car. It's fairly low resolution, but
by processing the image I can make out what looks like the letters N and Y above
the number 80735. It also appears to have 4/4 IDE ends. Was there an NYC 80735???

Tom Madden

--- Tim O'Connor wrote:

Tom

P&LE 30500-30999 and Virginian 63000-63999 had wood running boards
w/ Morton brake platforms. Both are 10'0"IH 1937 AAR box cars.

However the car in the photo can't be P&LE 30500-30999 because those
particular cars had a raised roof stamp on the end panel opposite to
the lateral running board, unlike all other rectangular panel roofs
except for LS&I 2201-2225 which also had this feature.

I can't make out the ladder rungs or hand brake, but the VGN cars
had 7-rung ladders and pre-1949 Universal hand brakes. Known dates
of wrecked VGN cars include #63010 9-1956 on the New Haven.

Tim O'Connor
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-frc.jpg
Interesting car. Wood roof walk and laterals, and a Morton brake platform. And the roof walk is made entirely of short boards one roof panel (width) long.

Tom Madden, more curious about the construction of the roof walk than the deteriorating car cement.


Heinz pickle salting stations

Richard Townsend
 

In going through Colorado & Southern AFE's at the Colorado RR Museum in Golden I came across a March 22, 1951 AFE (#11596) authorizing construction of a 260-foot spur to serve a new Heinz salting station in Windsor, CO. The cost was $2,211. The AFE says, "The H.J. Heinz Company has several pickle salting stations located on the C&S and the establishment of this new station will result in the shipment of approximately 25 additional cars per year over the C&S - CB&Q lines."

I know of a couple of Libby's salting stations (one in Fort Collins, and one in Loveland), but no other Heinz salting stations. Does someone have a list of Heinz salting stations that would show where (and when) the others on the C&S were located?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: Black Car Cement on roofs

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

There are 14 pictures in that wreck sequence. It was obviously on the NYC, and in the last photo of the sequence an in-service NYC steam engine (with elephant ears - I'm not familiar enough with NYC steam te say what it is) passes by. In the <-frc.jpg> portion of the link below, just substitute letters "a" through "n" for the "f" to see the rest of the photos. Some really interesting stuff there.

Photo "d" is of the A end of the subject car. It's fairly low resolution, but by processing the image I can make out what looks like the letters N and Y above the number 80735. It also appears to have 4/4 IDE ends. Was there an NYC 80735???

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Tom

P&LE 30500-30999 and Virginian 63000-63999 had wood running boards
w/ Morton brake platforms. Both are 10'0"IH 1937 AAR box cars.

However the car in the photo can't be P&LE 30500-30999 because those
particular cars had a raised roof stamp on the end panel opposite to
the lateral running board, unlike all other rectangular panel roofs
except for LS&I 2201-2225 which also had this feature.

I can't make out the ladder rungs or hand brake, but the VGN cars
had 7-rung ladders and pre-1949 Universal hand brakes. Known dates
of wrecked VGN cars include #63010 9-1956 on the New Haven.

Tim O'Connor



http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-frc.jpg
Interesting car. Wood roof walk and laterals, and a Morton brake platform. And the roof walk is made entirely of short boards one roof panel (width) long.

Tom Madden, more curious about the construction of the roof walk than the deteriorating car cement.


Re: Black Car Cement on roofs

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

P&LE 30500-30999 and Virginian 63000-63999 had wood running boards
w/ Morton brake platforms. Both are 10'0"IH 1937 AAR box cars.

However the car in the photo can't be P&LE 30500-30999 because those
particular cars had a raised roof stamp on the end panel opposite to
the lateral running board, unlike all other rectangular panel roofs
except for LS&I 2201-2225 which also had this feature.

I can't make out the ladder rungs or hand brake, but the VGN cars
had 7-rung ladders and pre-1949 Universal hand brakes. Known dates
of wrecked VGN cars include #63010 9-1956 on the New Haven.

Tim O'Connor

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-frc.jpg
Interesting car. Wood roof walk and laterals, and a Morton brake platform. And the roof walk is made entirely of short boards one roof panel (width) long.

Tom Madden, more curious about the construction of the roof walk than the deteriorating car cement.


Re: Black Car Cement on roofs

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Who some of the roads that applied black car cement on their boxcar roofs during repaints or as maintenance? I know PRR and RI did any others come up? I've been playing around with black and white oils paint to replicate the weathering on this roof where the black car cement is coming off the roof.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-frc.jpg

Charlie Duckworth

Interesting car. Wood roof walk and laterals, and a Morton brake platform. And the roof walk is made entirely of short boards one roof panel (width) long.

Tom Madden, more curious about the construction of the roof walk than the deteriorating car cement.


Decal HELP

jim peters
 

I wish to thank all who responded to my request for HELP . . . Now with the Salem show 3 weeks away - I hope they arrive in time . . .



David, Jim, Tony and (?) . . . See ya in Salem!



Jim Peters

Coquitlam, BC


Re: Black Car Cement on roofs

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 31, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Charlie D modeling the Mopac http://
mopac51.tripod wrote:

Who some of the roads that applied black car cement on their boxcar
roofs during repaints or as maintenance? I know PRR and RI did any
others come up? I've been playing around with black and white oils
paint to replicate the weathering on this roof where the black car
cement is coming off the roof.
Charlie, standard practice on the Santa Fe from ca. 1930 to the early
1950s was to apply black car cement mixed with anti-slip granules on
the roofs of all box and refrigerator cars, both when new and when
repainted. Wood running boards were not black, however, but mineral
brown. Steel running boards were usually left in unpainted
galvanized steel on new cars but painted black when the cars were
repainted later in life. Somewhere in the early-to-mid 1950s,
apparently depending on which car shop did the painting, the black
was discontinued and mineral brown synthetic enamel applied, but
again with anti-skid granules mixed in.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Black Car Cement on roofs

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Who some of the roads that applied black car cement on their boxcar roofs during repaints or as maintenance? I know PRR and RI did any others come up? I've been playing around with black and white oils paint to replicate the weathering on this roof where the black car cement is coming off the roof.
In the era of this list, Santa Fe did so as a matter of routine, for new AND repaired roofs.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Black Car Cement on roofs

Charlie D modeling the Mopac http://mopac51.tripod <trduck@...>
 

Who some of the roads that applied black car cement on their boxcar roofs during repaints or as maintenance? I know PRR and RI did any others come up? I've been playing around with black and white oils paint to replicate the weathering on this roof where the black car cement is coming off the roof.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-elywrk-frc.jpg

Charlie Duckworth


Re: P&WV gons was NKP Steel Article

Mark
 

That is a nice site. Spent quite a bit of time there myself. Looking at there freight cars and read an article.
Mark Morgan

PS working afternoon-midnight
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian J Carlson" <prrk41361@yahoo.com>
Sender: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:48:10
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] P&WV gons was NKP Steel Article

Regarding the hi-line article I am more interested in what series of P&WV
gons is shown. neat interior



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@yahoo.com


P&WV gons was NKP Steel Article

Brian Carlson
 

Regarding the hi-line article I am more interested in what series of P&WV
gons is shown. neat interior



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@yahoo.com


Re: [STEEL] NKP Steel Article

Brian Carlson
 

I agree with Al. NKP 24500-24901 which by 59 were 24502-24901. Rebuilt from
20000-20999 series boxcars built in 1924. Rebuilding took place in Frankfort
in 1945. Evans auto loader Type 'E' 24502-24799, Type F 24800-24901. Apex
Tri-lox running boards, Ajax hand brake, Murphy improved solid steel roof,
universal rotary brake adjuster.

sunshine kit 64.4



The other close series is 4000-4149 but they were not equipped with auto
loaders, and they has 2 corrugations added at the top of the ends.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@yahoo.com



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
al_brown03
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:26 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: [STEEL] NKP Steel Article





Steel-side auto car with Evans loaders and three-panel "inverse Murphy" ends
... perhaps 24500 series? See Culotta, FCRM 1 p 186, and Corns, Classic
Trains Su/04 pp 56-63. In the High Line article I can't read the number or
see the side sill, either of which would clinch it. The odd combination of
sides and ends arises 'cuz it's rebuilt from an old double-sheathed car; the
"three-panel" end actually has an extra corrugation added to the top panel.
I love funny-looking rebuilds: this is a good one.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood,
Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Great article! Can anyone tell us more about the NKP box car?


Re: [STEEL] NKP Steel Article

al_brown03
 

Looking more closely at the High Line picture, the very topmost corrugation in the end has a little extra separation from the next one down; that's the added extra corrugation.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

Steel-side auto car with Evans loaders and three-panel "inverse Murphy" ends ... perhaps 24500 series? See Culotta, FCRM 1 p 186, and Corns, Classic Trains Su/04 pp 56-63. In the High Line article I can't read the number or see the side sill, either of which would clinch it. The odd combination of sides and ends arises 'cuz it's rebuilt from an old double-sheathed car; the "three-panel" end actually has an extra corrugation added to the top panel. I love funny-looking rebuilds: this is a good one.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@> wrote:

Great article! Can anyone tell us more about the NKP box car?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STEEL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STEEL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pawel
Artmeijer
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 6:22 PM
To: STEEL@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STEEL] NKP Steel Article




A friend of mind, Dan Merkel, forwarded me this article that is on the web.
I just wanted to pass is along for others to enjoy.

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/Apr1959HiLine.htm
<http://www.thepwvhiline.com/Apr1959HiLine.htm>


Re: [STEEL] NKP Steel Article

al_brown03
 

Steel-side auto car with Evans loaders and three-panel "inverse Murphy" ends ... perhaps 24500 series? See Culotta, FCRM 1 p 186, and Corns, Classic Trains Su/04 pp 56-63. In the High Line article I can't read the number or see the side sill, either of which would clinch it. The odd combination of sides and ends arises 'cuz it's rebuilt from an old double-sheathed car; the "three-panel" end actually has an extra corrugation added to the top panel. I love funny-looking rebuilds: this is a good one.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Great article! Can anyone tell us more about the NKP box car?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STEEL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STEEL@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pawel
Artmeijer
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 6:22 PM
To: STEEL@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STEEL] NKP Steel Article




A friend of mind, Dan Merkel, forwarded me this article that is on the web.
I just wanted to pass is along for others to enjoy.

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/Apr1959HiLine.htm
<http://www.thepwvhiline.com/Apr1959HiLine.htm>


Re: Atlas HO 1932 ARA box car for trade

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Should have mentioned that car is brand new in an unopened box.
Would consider any Atlas HO 1932 ARA box car with lettering suitable for 1950.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

A recent eBay purchase included an Atlas item #20 000 323 HO 1932 ARA box car lettered for the Central of Georgia in the 1960s paint scheme. It is lettered "BLT 8-37" and reweigh date "HE 5-65." This CofG car is also lettered "When Empty Return to CofG Rwy. Westover, GA." and "Door Must Be Closed Before Moving Car."

I would like to trade this for the same Atlas car but with the earlier CofG lettering.

Gene Green


Atlas HO 1932 ARA box car for trade

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

A recent eBay purchase included an Atlas item #20 000 323 HO 1932 ARA box car lettered for the Central of Georgia in the 1960s paint scheme. It is lettered "BLT 8-37" and reweigh date "HE 5-65." This CofG car is also lettered "When Empty Return to CofG Rwy. Westover, GA." and "Door Must Be Closed Before Moving Car."

I would like to trade this for the same Atlas car but with the earlier CofG lettering.

Gene Green


Raised panel roof replacements

Andy Carlson
 

Greetings, fellow STMFC'ers....

If anyone is interested, I have a Red Caboose #7003 kit, and I have a Red Caboose '37 AAR roof, and a pair of 4/4 EDE (ends). The roof is a tad too wide, I would consider a lengthwise cut down the middle, the kerf may be enough material removal to allow a good fit to the RC body.The ends seem to right sized in both height and width.

$21.00, includes shipping. contact me off-list at <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>
-Andy Carlson

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <kobrien1600@...> wrote:

Gentlemen, Thank you all for the inputs and re-directing me on the ends. Looks like the Red Caboose 7003 body will do the correct sides for the 8501-8750 series. I also see that Detail Associates makes a pretty close 4/5 Dreadnaught end for me. Hope its close to the correct height.

Ken

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@> wrote:

Ken, Red Caboose does/did sell their roofs separately. So, order some when you order the kit. I believe Detail West still makes a square corner 4/4 DE that should come close to fitting on the RC body.

Gentleman, Start your chainsaws ! It's time to whack and hack !!
Clark Propst


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <kobrien1600@> wrote:

The series I want to replicate is the 8501-8750 cars with Dreadnaught ends and Standard Improved (raised panel?) roofs, purchased in 1934. These bodies were the ARA pattern, which I understand Red Caboose still does as an undec kit. I see this kit comes with a flat panel roof, so I want to get some replacement raised non-diagonal panel roofs. Are they made by somebody and can I get a couple?

Ken O'Brien

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