Date   

Re: Wabash large flag lettering scheme

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

David

Digging through the ORER's, sometime between 1955 and 1959 Wabash
converted 33 of the 50 Wabash 12600-12649 series to Ford auto frame
loading service. By 1963 all 50 cars were equipped for auto frames.

As it happens, the TANGENT model I bought, 12625, was not converted
by 1959. Phew!

All of the ORER's show these Wabash gondolas listed as COAL cars! Weird.

I have photos of two repainted Wabash 52' gondolas (11615/11623) with huge
WABASH roadname and a small flag to the right of the name. However it does
appear that 11623's flag is slightly larger (maybe 10-15%) than 11615's.

Curiouser and curiouser...


The January 1, 1957 Wabash equipment book shows all 50 cars equipped
with racks in 1956. Those equipped with Ford frame racks had an "8" stenciled above the reporting marks and the cars with Merecury frame racks were stenciled "54". BEWARE, THE REST OF THE MESSAGE GOES BEYOND 1960. I have a color photo of the 12614 repainted in the freight car red with the 33" WABASH and a small flag. The reweigh date appears to be XD 10-64. The 11000 series gons Tim refers to were purchased from the CNJ in 1962 and did have larger flags.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: CNJ-CRP tax dodge [was Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars]

Schuyler Larrabee
 

William Bryk wrote:
More comments on this would be welcome.
Maybe not to all of us. Seems to have minimal importance for
freight cars--we already know the validity period of the reporting
marks.

Tony Thompson
Yeah, and 'sides, it's just an eastern road . . .8^/

SGL

(Maybe we should talk about coal cars for a while . . .)





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508)
Database version: 6.13750
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


Re: Wabash large flag lettering scheme

Tim O'Connor
 

David,

Looking further, the 1965 ORER (post-N&W merger) shows all 50 of
the gondolas still lettered for Wabash, and the 1972 ORER shows
that 24 of them still had Wabash reporting marks.

Since the cars were reasonably new when the Wabash merged into the
N&W I would not be surprised to find that none of them was repainted
while in Wabash service.

Sure would be good to find a photo of one of the auto frame cars!

Tim O'Connor

While on the subject of Wabash repaints, does anyone have shots of the ACF 70-ton welded gondolas repainted into any Wabash schemes? We are looking for repaint possibilities for the Tangent Scale Models HO scale gondola model.

Thank you!

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


Re: CNJ-CRP tax dodge [was Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars]

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

William Bryk wrote:
More comments on this would be welcome.
Maybe not to all of us. Seems to have minimal importance for freight cars--we already know the validity period of the reporting marks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wabash large flag lettering scheme

Tim O'Connor
 

David

Digging through the ORER's, sometime between 1955 and 1959 Wabash
converted 33 of the 50 Wabash 12600-12649 series to Ford auto frame
loading service. By 1963 all 50 cars were equipped for auto frames.

As it happens, the TANGENT model I bought, 12625, was not converted
by 1959. Phew!

All of the ORER's show these Wabash gondolas listed as COAL cars! Weird.

I have photos of two repainted Wabash 52' gondolas (11615/11623) with huge
WABASH roadname and a small flag to the right of the name. However it does
appear that 11623's flag is slightly larger (maybe 10-15%) than 11615's.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Tim O'Connor

At 11/22/2009 11:27 PM Sunday, you wrote:
While on the subject of Wabash repaints, does anyone have shots of the ACF 70-ton welded gondolas repainted into any Wabash schemes? We are looking for repaint possibilities for the Tangent Scale Models HO scale gondola model.

Thank you!

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


Re: Wabash large flag lettering scheme

bnsd45
 

While on the subject of Wabash repaints, does anyone have shots of the ACF 70-ton welded gondolas repainted into any Wabash schemes?  We are looking for repaint possibilities for the Tangent Scale Models HO scale gondola model.

Thank you!

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Making grab irons

jerryglow2
 

When I lived in SoCal Terry Wegman engraved a pair of "duckbill" pliers to make drop grabs for P2K gondolas as they do not match any commercially available grabs. You made the U shape the usual way and inserted it into the engraved slot and bent the legs over. Another Dan Smith achieved the same by ACCing a stop on the inside face of one side of his pliers.
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/files/pliers.jpg

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Doug Polinder <mikado3399@...> wrote:

Allen is referring to, I believe, the sidebar on p. 89 in Ted Culotta's fourth installment of the Essential Freight Car series in the July 2003 RMC on NP's double-sheathed boxcars. In the same issue on p. 66 Mike Rose also illustrates building straight and drop grabs (although on cars out of scope for STMFC).

This issue is one of RMC's high-water marks for mid-century freight-car modelers, what with the above articles and techniques as well as two product reviews, one of Sylvan's HO Canadian National autobox and the other of Lionel's O PS-5, and a pictorial of a layout of Hamilton ON in 1958 and Keith Kohlmann's description of the American Motors auto loading facility for its plant in Kenosha WI.

Doug Polinder
Grand Rapids MI




________________________________
Re: Molded-on Grab Irons and grab iron bending device
Posted by: "Allen Cain" allencain@... allen_cain
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm ((PST))

Folks,



The Mission Model bending jig looks really nice but $90 puts it out of may
range for a specialty tool.



Sometime back one of the magazines ran an article where a piece of sheet
plastic with manufactured scribed slots (siding?) was cut in a triangular
shape with the slots running parallel to the base of the triangle. Then,
you pick the slot that matches the width that you need and lay a piece of
wire in it and simply bend it over the edges of the plastic. Bingo, a grab
iron. The taller the triangle combined with a narrow base gives you a LOT
of slots which vary in length only slightly as you go from one slot to the
next.



I built one of these for a zero cost using scraps from the plastic box and
it works great.



Hopefully my description makes sense.



Allen Cain






Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars

tmolsen@...
 

Thanks Richard,
I did not have the earlier register, but your post really narrows it done to some time between April 1944 and October 1944 since the register cover dates are three months after the effective dates.

I used to live in Merchantville NJ and the portion of the Pemberton Branch that ran through the limits of the town boundaries paid enough taxes to fund the schools in town. They did not call New Jersey the "Gestapo" state for nothing when it comes to property taxes! The railroads have always paid a disproportionate share of the property taxes because they were an easy target.

Best regards,
Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292


Making grab irons

Doug Polinder
 

Allen is referring to, I believe, the sidebar on p. 89 in Ted Culotta's fourth installment of the Essential Freight Car series in the July 2003 RMC on NP's double-sheathed boxcars. In the same issue on p. 66 Mike Rose also illustrates building straight and drop grabs (although on cars out of scope for STMFC).

This issue is one of RMC's high-water marks for mid-century freight-car modelers, what with the above articles and techniques as well as two product reviews, one of Sylvan's HO Canadian National autobox and the other of Lionel's O PS-5, and a pictorial of a layout of Hamilton ON in 1958 and Keith Kohlmann's description of the American Motors auto loading facility for its plant in Kenosha WI.

Doug Polinder
Grand Rapids MI




________________________________
Re: Molded-on Grab Irons and grab iron bending device
Posted by: "Allen Cain" allencain@... allen_cain
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm ((PST))

Folks,



The Mission Model bending jig looks really nice but $90 puts it out of may
range for a specialty tool.



Sometime back one of the magazines ran an article where a piece of sheet
plastic with manufactured scribed slots (siding?) was cut in a triangular
shape with the slots running parallel to the base of the triangle. Then,
you pick the slot that matches the width that you need and lay a piece of
wire in it and simply bend it over the edges of the plastic. Bingo, a grab
iron. The taller the triangle combined with a narrow base gives you a LOT
of slots which vary in length only slightly as you go from one slot to the
next.



I built one of these for a zero cost using scraps from the plastic box and
it works great.



Hopefully my description makes sense.



Allen Cain


Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *01 cars (title correction)

Robert kirkham
 

ironic: "type" should read "typo"

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 1:56 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *01 cars (title correction)

Good catch Steve! With "01" tacked on, we'd have a 7 digit number. Allen -
can you clarify if there is a type here?

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "steve l" <stevelucas3@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:19 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *01 cars (title correction)

Allen--47902 would be a correct number for a company-service CN car that
was confined to CN rails. But CN 47902_ would have been a 40', 10' i.h.
steel boxcar, built by Canadian Car and Foundry with a flat panel roof and
square-corner SDE's in May or June, 1940 (Swain series 10). I take it
that the final digit of the car number is missing, or ??

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Allen Rueter <allen_282@...> wrote:

Just one CN 47902

--
Allen Rueter StLouis MO







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *01 cars (title correction)

Robert kirkham
 

Good catch Steve! With "01" tacked on, we'd have a 7 digit number. Allen - can you clarify if there is a type here?

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "steve l" <stevelucas3@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:19 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *01 cars (title correction)

Allen--47902 would be a correct number for a company-service CN car that was confined to CN rails. But CN 47902_ would have been a 40', 10' i.h. steel boxcar, built by Canadian Car and Foundry with a flat panel roof and square-corner SDE's in May or June, 1940 (Swain series 10). I take it that the final digit of the car number is missing, or ??

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Allen Rueter <allen_282@...> wrote:

Just one CN 47902

--
Allen Rueter StLouis MO







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *01 cars (title correction)

Allen Rueter
 

the space goes in front CN 479_02 should be CN 479202, a pair of pages for 02 has 002, 102, 202, ...,902

--
Allen Rueter StLouis MO




________________________________
From: steve l <stevelucas3@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 10:19:39 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *01 cars (title correction)


Allen--47902 would be a correct number for a company-service CN car that was confined to CN rails. But CN 47902_ would have been a 40', 10' i.h. steel boxcar, built by Canadian Car and Foundry with a flat panel roof and square-corner SDE's in May or June, 1940 (Swain series 10). I take it that the final digit of the car number is missing, or ??

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Allen Rueter <allen_282@. ..> wrote:

Just one CN 47902

--
Allen Rueter StLouis MO




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Nov 22, 2009, at 2:31 AM, <tmolsen@...> wrote:

In regard to the tax dodge that the CNJ had by setting up the lines
in PA as CRP, it has to go back to sometime in 1945. The July 1944
ORER (effective date being April 1944) shows the CNJ only while the
January 1946 ORER (effective date being October 1945) shows both
the CRP and CNJ as separate entities.
So, when were the first cars lettered CRP?<VBG> Its obviously post
April 1944, but if, say it were May 1944, I might need a car lettered
for CRP!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: InterMountain 70 ton flat car kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, I wish all kits would adopt the simple style of the Accurail
41' gondola kit - basically a flat slab onto which you can readily
apply either an Accurail scale draft gear, Kadee 78, regular Kadee
or any other. The issue with flat cars is that you need two different
end sills -- one with a scale coupler opening and one with the wider
opening for non scale draft geaar. I don't suppose Intermountain did
that did they?

Tim O'Connor

I have not seen the 70-ton flat cars yet. What is the method of
installing the couplers on these cars. The experience I had with the
IM reefers with the press fit coupler box cover resulted in removal
of the entire box and installation of new boxes to install the
Sergent couplers. Hopefully the flat car uses some other method than
the press fit coupler box cover.

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: CNJ-CRP tax dodge [was Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars]

Schuyler Larrabee
 

That is correct, Bill, but CNJ was not the only road so burdened. It was, probably, the road most
afflicted, because it wasn't a long distance road with the potential, at least, to offset those
taxes with the revenues from long distance operations. Specifically, the ERIE suffered a great deal
from Frank Hague. But this approach extended through the state government as well, so all railroads
serving New Jersey were highly taxed.

SGL

Part of the reason for the CRP was the remarkably high taxes levied on the
CNJ by the State of New Jersey, which appear to have been based on the
line's revenues throughout the system - including the out-of-state
operations. Some commentary suggests this was a substantial part of the
reason for the CNJ's receiverships in the last century. Certainly, Frank "I
am the Law in Jersey City" Hague began his rise to power by arguing that the
CNJ was undertaxed, and once in power, provided a very high level of social
services by taxing the railroad, perhaps to death. More comments on this
would be welcome.

Regards,
wb

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:31 AM, <tmolsen@...> wrote:



In regard to the tax dodge that the CNJ had by setting up the lines in PA
as CRP, it has to go back to sometime in 1945. The July 1944 ORER (effective
date being April 1944) shows the CNJ only while the January 1946 ORER
(effective date being October 1945) shows both the CRP and CNJ as separate
entities. Remember there is always a 3-month lag between the ORER reporting
date and the ORER front page publication date to allow the railroad
companies to submit their data.

Sometime between October 1952 (January 1953 ORER) and January 1953 (April
1953) both the CRP and CNJ reporting marks were recombined under the Central
Railroad of New Jersey ORER listing.

New Jersey was not buying the two separate railroads dodge and I am sure
the state banged the CNJ for a ton of back taxes and penalties dating back
to sometime in 1945.

Best regards,
Tom Olsen

Thomas M. Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@... <tmolsen%40udel.edu>






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links







E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508)
Database version: 6.13750
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/




E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508)
Database version: 6.13750
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


Re: InterMountain 70 ton flat car kits

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 22, 2009, at 10:05 AM, William Keene wrote:

I have not seen the 70-ton flat cars yet. What is the method of
installing the couplers on these cars. The experience I had with the
IM reefers with the press fit coupler box cover resulted in removal
of the entire box and installation of new boxes to install the
Sergent couplers. Hopefully the flat car uses some other method than
the press fit coupler box cover.
Bill, the coupler box covers on the IM flat cars are neatly held in
place by small flat head screws.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: InterMountain 70 ton flat car kits

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

I have not seen the 70-ton flat cars yet. What is the method of
installing the couplers on these cars. The experience I had with the
IM reefers with the press fit coupler box cover resulted in removal
of the entire box and installation of new boxes to install the
Sergent couplers. Hopefully the flat car uses some other method than
the press fit coupler box cover.

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:19 AM, peteraue wrote:

InterMountain just confirmed that the HO scale 70 ton flat cars
will be available as undecorated kits. The stock number will be
43799, the list price US $ 19.95. This will be a much better
solution than trying to get the laser-cut wood deck off without
braking anything.
While I tend to prefer kits to RTR models, for all of the reasons
that are often advanced on this list, IM's painting and lettering on
the flat car models is very good and the decks come off to be thinned
down very easily, with just a bit of gentle work with a single edge
razor blade. The excessive thickness of the wood decks shouldn't
discourage anyone from buying a RTR model and fixing the deck, as
there is really no danger of breaking anything.

Richard Hendrickson





Re: InterMountain 70 ton flat car kits

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:19 AM, peteraue wrote:

InterMountain just confirmed that the HO scale 70 ton flat cars
will be available as undecorated kits. The stock number will be
43799, the list price US $ 19.95. This will be a much better
solution than trying to get the laser-cut wood deck off without
braking anything.
While I tend to prefer kits to RTR models, for all of the reasons
that are often advanced on this list, IM's painting and lettering on
the flat car models is very good and the decks come off to be thinned
down very easily, with just a bit of gentle work with a single edge
razor blade. The excessive thickness of the wood decks shouldn't
discourage anyone from buying a RTR model and fixing the deck, as
there is really no danger of breaking anything.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 22, 2009, at 2:31 AM, <tmolsen@...> wrote:

In regard to the tax dodge that the CNJ had by setting up the lines
in PA as CRP, it has to go back to sometime in 1945. The July 1944
ORER (effective date being April 1944) shows the CNJ only while the
January 1946 ORER (effective date being October 1945) shows both
the CRP and CNJ as separate entities.
In fact, it started some time in 1944, as i said in an earlier post.
The CNJ and CRP are listed separately in the 1/45 ORER.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: CNJ-CRP tax dodge [was Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars]

William Bryk <wmbryk@...>
 

Part of the reason for the CRP was the remarkably high taxes levied on the
CNJ by the State of New Jersey, which appear to have been based on the
line's revenues throughout the system - including the out-of-state
operations. Some commentary suggests this was a substantial part of the
reason for the CNJ's receiverships in the last century. Certainly, Frank "I
am the Law in Jersey City" Hague began his rise to power by arguing that the
CNJ was undertaxed, and once in power, provided a very high level of social
services by taxing the railroad, perhaps to death. More comments on this
would be welcome.

Regards,
wb

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:31 AM, <tmolsen@...> wrote:



In regard to the tax dodge that the CNJ had by setting up the lines in PA
as CRP, it has to go back to sometime in 1945. The July 1944 ORER (effective
date being April 1944) shows the CNJ only while the January 1946 ORER
(effective date being October 1945) shows both the CRP and CNJ as separate
entities. Remember there is always a 3-month lag between the ORER reporting
date and the ORER front page publication date to allow the railroad
companies to submit their data.

Sometime between October 1952 (January 1953 ORER) and January 1953 (April
1953) both the CRP and CNJ reporting marks were recombined under the Central
Railroad of New Jersey ORER listing.

New Jersey was not buying the two separate railroads dodge and I am sure
the state banged the CNJ for a ton of back taxes and penalties dating back
to sometime in 1945.

Best regards,
Tom Olsen

Thomas M. Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@... <tmolsen%40udel.edu>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]