Date   

Re: Reefer tack boards

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes -- several NWX and Armour.

Tim O', could you clarify: you've found steel-ended reefers without end tack boards?

-- tia --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Clark

I'm surprised that cars with steel ends would be lacking tack boards on their
ends. The only owners I've found so far are NWX and TRAX (Armour) -- multiple
examples of each! Have you found others?

Tim O'Connor


At 8/2/2010 09:53 AM Monday, you wrote:
Some reefers don't seem to have tack boards on the ends of the car. Any reason?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: B&O Caboose Photos 1930s - 1950s?

cinderandeight@...
 

Chris,
Your email address doesn't seem to be working. Contact me off list if
you are interested in what B&O caboose photos I have.
Rich Burg


Re: Reefers at the brewery, Pittsburgh early 1900s

al_brown03
 

Wow, that's cool. Does the riverboat not have paddlewheels?

-- oops, well, I guess one could ship paddlewheels on a big enough STMFC --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "scottpitzer2002" <scottp459@...> wrote:

Also Erie and PRR Union Line box cars
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8634?size=_original

Scott Pitzer


Re: Reefer tack boards

al_brown03
 

Tim O', could you clarify: you've found steel-ended reefers without end tack boards?

-- tia --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Clark

I'm surprised that cars with steel ends would be lacking tack boards of their
ends. The only owners I've found so far are NWX and TRAX (Armour) -- multiple
examples of each! Have you found others?

Tim O'Connor


At 8/2/2010 09:53 AM Monday, you wrote:
Some reefers don't seem to have tack boards on the ends of the car. Any reason?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Reefers at the brewery, Pittsburgh early 1900s

Scott Pitzer
 

Also Erie and PRR Union Line box cars
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8634?size=_original

Scott Pitzer


Re: Reefer tack boards

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

I'm surprised that cars with steel ends would be lacking tack boards of their
ends. The only owners I've found so far are NWX and TRAX (Armour) -- multiple
examples of each! Have you found others?

Tim O'Connor

At 8/2/2010 09:53 AM Monday, you wrote:
Some reefers don't seem to have tack boards on the ends of the car. Any reason?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Trucks ?

Panhandle Division 1953 <prrinvt@...>
 

Listers,

My thanks to all who responded to my question; I can now proceed with the plans at hand.

Fred Freitas


B&O Caboose Photos 1930s - 1950s?

ltctilley <ltctilley@...>
 

Hi and thanks for all the great info you send into my home!

I am looking for a few photos of B&O cabooses or contact info for commercial sources that might have some that I can publish. I am working a couple of HO scale kitbash articles for the B&O Modeler e-zine. I have searched everything I can find online including the B&O Yahoo group and the excellent fallen flags site. I am specifically looking for B&O C-2500 (I-7) C-18XX (I-13) or C-23XX (I-16 class).

I have heard of Bob's photos, but a search on that name turned up about 100 possibilities. Can anybody point me in the right direction?

I really appreciate the insight this group provides on how STMFCs were built and how the various makes/classes differ.
thanks again
Chris Tilley
Pittsboro, NC


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Thomas Baker
 

Is Sloan yellow the same tone of yellow as what has been called "chrome yellow"?

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com on behalf of proto48er
Sent: Mon 8/2/2010 2:52 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Guys -

I vote for the richer color of the car on the Chooch website as being very close to the true color of a freshly painted Sloan yellow car.

I have two boards from old M-K-T wood boxcars which were in protected locations on the cars (under the roof or under another board), and the yellow of the Chooch car is closer to the protected ("newer") color on each of those boards.

In my opinion, the Shorpy photo represents a car with about 6 years of weathering. It was probably painted in 1937.

Bruce Blalock's paint may have shifted color in the can over the years, and he matched the duller color. However, he should have some boards with actual old paint on them, since he has one of the oldest wood M-K-T cabooses still extant at his B&B. I had a can of SP/T&NO green shingle stain from 1945 or so, and it color shifted in a sealed, never opened 5-gallon can.

In the long run, it is a matter of personal choice which colors are correct and which are not.

A.T. Kott




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car disassembly

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

It's so easy, even someone who can't count to two can do it!  There are TWO
small screws attaching the center sill to the tank.  There are three, more
deeply recessed screws, that apparently hold the upper and lower tank sections
together.  I did not attempt to remove those screws.

I guess I have counted too many rivets to be able to count screws correctly!

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ




________________________________
From: LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@verizon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 5:57:40 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car disassembly

 
It's very easy -- remove the three small Phillips-head screws in the center
sill.  I removed the truck screws first (straight-blade) so I don't know whether

they have to be.  Everything on the undecorated car is press fit -- dome
platform, handrails (two pieces), ladder, brake ratchet.  The dome is press-fit
too, so it's easy to paint white.  I'm working on a Gas-Oil Products (GOPX) car
for which Jerry Glow developed decals.   See: 
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/GOPX.jpg

The only significant flaw with the model is the "tank anchor" is molded on the
running board.  I forgot to add plates to the tank before I painted it.

On the car I'm working on, the reservoir needs to be relocated to the other side

directly under the AB valve.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

________________________________
From: "richtownsend@netscape.net" <richtownsend@netscape.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 5:03:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car disassembly

 
I am about to undertake a kitbash of an Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car. Before I
do much damage I thought I would ask if anyone has any experience/suggestions
regarding removing the tank from the frame.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Rob M.
 

I did look again at the circa 2009 photo of the box car here:

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/TexiKan/?action=view¤t=IMG_2293.jpg

And there is some much brighter yellow bleeding out. A.T., does it look like your board?

Unfortunately I'm not too close to Smithville TX to see Bruce's caboose.

So it seems that I need to be asking the KATY folks how often to expect these cars to be repainted. I am modeling the post-WWII era so it would be conceivable that these cars would be repainted at least once before their scrapping in the 50's.

Thanks for the help guys and Gene if you ever get a chance to post that sample somewhere I'd appreciate it so that I might hack at some color matching.

Rob Mondichak.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <losgatos48@...> wrote:

A.T.
Your point on Blalock's sample being off may very well be correct. The color is rather a dull golden yellow. However, you get to tell him that fact.

Gene Deimling


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "proto48er" <atkott@> wrote:

Guys -

I vote for the richer color of the car on the Chooch website as being very close to the true color of a freshly painted Sloan yellow car.

I have two boards from old M-K-T wood boxcars which were in protected locations on the cars (under the roof or under another board), and the yellow of the Chooch car is closer to the protected ("newer") color on each of those boards.

In my opinion, the Shorpy photo represents a car with about 6 years of weathering. It was probably painted in 1937.

Bruce Blalock's paint may have shifted color in the can over the years, and he matched the duller color. However, he should have some boards with actual old paint on them, since he has one of the oldest wood M-K-T cabooses still extant at his B&B. I had a can of SP/T&NO green shingle stain from 1945 or so, and it color shifted in a sealed, never opened 5-gallon can.

In the long run, it is a matter of personal choice which colors are correct and which are not.

A.T. Kott


Re: Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car disassembly

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

It's very easy -- remove the three small Phillips-head screws in the center
sill.  I removed the truck screws first (straight-blade) so I don't know whether
they have to be.  Everything on the undecorated car is press fit -- dome
platform, handrails (two pieces), ladder, brake ratchet.  The dome is press-fit
too, so it's easy to paint white.  I'm working on a Gas-Oil Products (GOPX) car
for which Jerry Glow developed decals.   See: 
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/GOPX.jpg

The only significant flaw with the model is the "tank anchor" is molded on the
running board.  I forgot to add plates to the tank before I painted it.

On the car I'm working on, the reservoir needs to be relocated to the other side
directly under the AB valve.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ




________________________________
From: "richtownsend@netscape.net" <richtownsend@netscape.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 5:03:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car disassembly

 
I am about to undertake a kitbash of an Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car. Before I
do much damage I thought I would ask if anyone has any experience/suggestions
regarding removing the tank from the frame.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Gene <losgatos48@...>
 

A.T.
Your point on Blalock's sample being off may very well be correct. The color is rather a dull golden yellow. However, you get to tell him that fact.

Gene Deimling

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "proto48er" <atkott@...> wrote:

Guys -

I vote for the richer color of the car on the Chooch website as being very close to the true color of a freshly painted Sloan yellow car.

I have two boards from old M-K-T wood boxcars which were in protected locations on the cars (under the roof or under another board), and the yellow of the Chooch car is closer to the protected ("newer") color on each of those boards.

In my opinion, the Shorpy photo represents a car with about 6 years of weathering. It was probably painted in 1937.

Bruce Blalock's paint may have shifted color in the can over the years, and he matched the duller color. However, he should have some boards with actual old paint on them, since he has one of the oldest wood M-K-T cabooses still extant at his B&B. I had a can of SP/T&NO green shingle stain from 1945 or so, and it color shifted in a sealed, never opened 5-gallon can.

In the long run, it is a matter of personal choice which colors are correct and which are not.

A.T. Kott


Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car disassembly

Richard Townsend
 

I am about to undertake a kitbash of an Atlas 11,000 gallon tank car. Before I do much damage I thought I would ask if anyone has any experience/suggestions regarding removing the tank from the frame.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

proto48er
 

Guys -

I vote for the richer color of the car on the Chooch website as being very close to the true color of a freshly painted Sloan yellow car.

I have two boards from old M-K-T wood boxcars which were in protected locations on the cars (under the roof or under another board), and the yellow of the Chooch car is closer to the protected ("newer") color on each of those boards.

In my opinion, the Shorpy photo represents a car with about 6 years of weathering. It was probably painted in 1937.

Bruce Blalock's paint may have shifted color in the can over the years, and he matched the duller color. However, he should have some boards with actual old paint on them, since he has one of the oldest wood M-K-T cabooses still extant at his B&B. I had a can of SP/T&NO green shingle stain from 1945 or so, and it color shifted in a sealed, never opened 5-gallon can.

In the long run, it is a matter of personal choice which colors are correct and which are not.

A.T. Kott


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
Color shift becomes more extreme with lower ASA films, which are also more color-saturated. I used both Kodachrome and Ektachrome in various ASA speeds when I was a military photographer. The red was much more apparent with Kodachrome 25 than with the 100 ASA version, or the blue with Ektachrome 64 vs. 400. If your friend was using fast film (as I would expect when loaded for trains in motion), the differences between the two types were probably not as obvious.
I don't know what speed film it was, but we were shooting lineside structures and freight cars, not moving trains. I have an older friend who remembers the films with ASA 10 and 12. He says "they had a nerve calling it a film SPEED."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tony,

Color shift becomes more extreme with lower ASA films, which are also
more color-saturated. I used both Kodachrome and Ektachrome in various
ASA speeds when I was a military photographer. The red was much more
apparent with Kodachrome 25 than with the 100 ASA version, or the blue
with Ektachrome 64 vs. 400. If your friend was using fast film (as I
would expect when loaded for trains in motion), the differences between
the two types were probably not as obvious.

Kodachrome 25 actually used to be considered "fast". In the 1940s Kodak
made it in ASA 12, which was very saturated and more red shifted. I once
used some Kodak photomicography film at ASA 6 which shifted everything
to purple.

Of course, the higher speed films tended to be grainier, especially if
processed at tap water temperatures. Tri-X 400 in Dektol at room
temperature could produce grain particles that looked like hailstones!
We always sent our color out, since none of the labs I ever used had
working chillers, if they had them at all.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff



Anthony Thompson wrote:


I've spoken to several archivists around the country about
this film stability issue. They all agreed (and so do published
accounts) that Ektachrome is no more prone to color shift than
Kodachrome WHEN properly stored (the traditional cool, dark place).
But it IS true that Ektachrome suffers more from light exposure over
the years (that's why you were always advised NOT to use your original
slides in slide shows, but to make dupes to give talks).
A Pittsburgh friend of mine took several railfan photos using
two camera backs, one with Kodachrome and one with Ektachrome, of the
same subjects on a bright, sunny day. The slides looked awfully
similar, without much evidence of the famous "warmth" of Kodachrome or
the "blues" of Ektachrome. I think this color bias can be overstated.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: 46 ft. Flatcars?

David Sieber
 

Gentlemen,

Going through old STMFC postings (always fun, learn something every time), I found this topic as above. Edwin C. Kirstatter wrote: "I have a question on 46 ft. flatcars, they seem to be a rare and unusual size. [snip] Anyone know of any other roads that used this size?"

Several people responded with info on 45-46ft flatcars owned by C&NW, CN, CP, IC, and L&N (also TC 2701-series, but those were USRA 42-footers). I remembered that the MILW also had some of these uncommon-length flatcars, so I dug out the Richard Hendrickson article in Prototype Modeler Nov-Dec 83 on the Milwaukee's two series of 45ft9in (over strikers) flats:
- MILW 63001-63999 (odd #s only) 500 cars blt Ryan Car Co 1925
- MILW 600000-600349 350 cars blt Ryan Car Co 1929

Both series had riveted steel fishbelly underframes and side sills, with 12 pressed steel stake pockets, URECO drop brakewheels, and Dalman and Bettendorf trucks, respectively. The article included freight car diagrams for both series, but no prototype photos. Richard noted that "most of these flatcars remained in revenue service through the 1940s and 1950s, and a few were still active in the late 1960s."

He'd modeled this car by shortening an Athearn 50ft flatcar by 42 scale inches (including one stake pocket), to get a slightly long, but otherwise close representation of the prototype flatcar. The photo of his model showed a nice-looking car that would be a good use for those Athearn 50-footers that I suspect many of us have sitting idle in a blue box on a shelf somewhere. Dr. Hendrickson's early articles and WestRail conversion kits were pioneering efforts in prototype modeling that helped start the long and continuing process that has brought us to the abundance of prototypical models that we now enjoy, and he has continued to share his knowledge with us all to this day - many thanks, Richard!

Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
I don't know where folks get the idea that Kodachrome doesn't color shift! We've been over this ground before on STMFC, and as I keep on saying, ALL films have some color bias. Additionally, while Kodachrome was far more stable than other formulations such as Ectachrome (which was blue/green biased), stability varied . . .
I've spoken to several archivists around the country about this film stability issue. They all agreed (and so do published accounts) that Ektachrome is no more prone to color shift than Kodachrome WHEN properly stored (the traditional cool, dark place). But it IS true that Ektachrome suffers more from light exposure over the years (that's why you were always advised NOT to use your original slides in slide shows, but to make dupes to give talks).
A Pittsburgh friend of mine took several railfan photos using two camera backs, one with Kodachrome and one with Ektachrome, of the same subjects on a bright, sunny day. The slides looked awfully similar, without much evidence of the famous "warmth" of Kodachrome or the "blues" of Ektachrome. I think this color bias can be overstated.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: MKT Sloan Yellow

Gene <losgatos48@...>
 

Rob
I did the masters and pilot model (yellow only). The decals were done by Bruce Blalock and printed by Thinfilm many years ago.

The use of Sloan Yellow came about before WWII and probably did fade quickly when exposed to the elements.

Gene Deimling

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rule292@...> wrote:

Thank You Gene! And thanks to all for your help.

I could have sworn I saw that you did the masters for Chooch but I couldn't find it in the instructions or online. This being said, I almost posted on P:48 modeler but I think I used up my quota of questions for the week on your site. :-).

I know that yellow fades relatively fast and I have pictures of PRR and PC work equipment that I noticed faded real fast.

I just wondered since that photo was taken in 1943 whether it had faded that quickly given the paint chemisty of the the era. And I compared the online picture of the Shorpy car versus the Chooch site and hmmmmm. I couldn't find the original on the LOC web site which was my next move since the info on the Shorpy site says that images may be corrected.

I found an interesting use for those cars online. Kansas farmhand house:

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/TexiKan/?action=view¤t=IMG_2293.jpg

Rob Mondichak

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <losgatos48@> wrote:

Rob
The color shown on the Chooch website was shifted by the lighting. The photo of the car end is much closer to the color sample provided to me by Bruce Blalock. He found some original paint at the Katy shops many years ago and had some paint mixed to match the original. I have a board painted with the paint. I can scan it and post the color.

Gene Deimling


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <rule292@> wrote:

Good Evening,

Let's change colors.

I have a Chooch Ultra Scale kit of the MKT single sheathed car in Sloan Yellow:

http://www.choochenterprises.com/html/814_mkt_katy_dble_box_car_yell.html

Shorpy has a Jack Delano Kodachrome of a similar car (not 7/7 ribs tho like the Chooch car) in Sloan Yellow in Galewood in 1943:

http://www.shorpy.com/node/704?size=_original

What sayeth STMFC about the color of the Shorpy car? Could it be Sloan yellow that has faded white and took on road grime in that short of a time since the car would have been repainted?

Or is it color shift or correction of the original?

Any and all help is appreciated!

Thanks,

Rob Mondichak

93241 - 93260 of 185270