Date   

Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Tim O'Connor
 

Tim,
Stop giving Mike & Jeff new ideas for Coco meet! Be careful of what you wish for, it may come to pass. How much are non-proto citations anyway ????
Fred Freitas
The penalties are extreme: One beer for each infraction.
Repeat violators are set to hard labor, sanding up a set
of Sunshine floors and sides to equal length.

Tim O'Connor


Re: SOURCE FOR 4/4 DREADNAUGHT ENDS

Andy Carlson
 

Details West no longer shows them on their catalog page for freight car parts, but they used to sell two versions of the early Dreadnaught ends, meant to be replacement parts for the Athearn Reefer. Available in either square corner ends, or "W"-corner end versions, most F&C and Sunshine EDE equipped kits "borrowed" this styrene end for their pattern needs. Shouldn't be too hard for someone to come up with an extra pair, perhaps even from someone viewing this list. I will be seeing Terry Wegmann in a couple weeks, perhaps I could get some from him (He makes the part for DW) if you are unsuccessful in your attempts.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Anything happening this month of possible interest to Steam Era Freight Car Fans????


Re: SOURCE FOR 4/4 DREADNAUGHT ENDS

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 13, 2009, at 3:29 PM, billkeene2004 wrote:

Hello Group,

I am at the beginning of an effort to scratch build at least six
MKT 47001-47500 series stock cars. I am in need of a source for 4/4
Dreadnaught ends for these cars that have an inside height of 8'-7".

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Bill, it sounds like the most obvious source for 4/4 square-cornered
Dreadnaught ends of that height might be a resin model of an ARA 1932
standard steel box car. Both Sunshine and Funaro & Camerlengo have
made such kits in the past, and if you could get (or borrow) even one
end, you could use it as a master to mold your own.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Frederick Freitas says:

"Stop giving Mike & Jeff new ideas for Coco meet! Be careful of what you wish for, it may come to pass."

What do you mean...it MAY come to pass?

Tony Thompson says:

"RIchard went as far as having fake police badges made, saying
"Prototype Police," and with the slogan "To Serve and Correct."

Several yrs ago during Prototype Rails...actually at Merritt Island instead of Cocoa Beach because it was during a visit to my layout, I wandered over to Harriman and found Tony Thompson studying a car of mine...possibly an N&W hopper?. When I asked what he thought, he pulled out his Prototype Police badge and grinned. He DID say that Richard had an even better one.

Little tid bits like that are what makes RPM meets memorable, like the dinner on the aircraft carrier during the San Jose national...when Tony Thompson, Richard and their wives suspiciously left their seats at dinner just as the banquet speaker was beginning, saying..."When I was two years old I got my first train set". As Jon Miller will no doubt recall, I looked at Jon, he looked at me and with my wife, we headed for the door where I saw Richard and Tony vanish. This led to a gangplank to our bus and as we settled in our seats, I looked up toward the aircraft carrier to see literally hundreds of people streaming off the ship like rats...no doubt to the echo of..."and when I was three..."

Mike Brock


Re: When is the grain rush?

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

There was essentially no "grain rush" as we know it today, in the 30's. Farmers fed their livestock the grain, ie corn and oats,
they raised. It was only after WWII and the need to feed the world, along with the advent of hybrid seeds, that grain production
increased and exports were financially viable. That is when the "grain rush" became a part of railroading.

Wheat was the only grain moved much, and it went from the wheat fields (east of Wyo) to the milling districts, ie Minneapolis and
Kansas City. Corn was fed to hogs and cattle, it did not move by rail in quantity until the 50's. Oats were raised to feed
livestock, ie horses and mules, until the tractor replaced horses after WWII. Soybeans were not a large crop until the 50's.

Sugar beets would be one crop with a fall rush, usually Sept & Oct. Sugar beets were raised in northern Iowa and Minnesota until
Soybeans pushed beets further north and to the west. Check the reports for gons and hoppers full of sugar beets, this may be the
only "grain rush" on the UP in the 30's.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

Has Kadee done the cars in the pre speed lettering Reading lettering yet? They did the speed lettering scheme but I have not seen the earlier version. The earlier lettering was shown in the RPC article.

John King

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:00 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

<SNIP>
So okay they are only doing one basic car body, especially as related
to the bottom of the side of the car. But they have failed to do the
cars with the heap shields. Several railroads had cars with this
configuration in small and large numbers. The L&N had only 7,200 cars
with angled heap shields and only 8,800 cars with the notched angular
heap shields. I have not calculated how many L&N cars matched the
Kadee car side but I know many did.

What really bugs me is that model companies do not see the
possibilities if they would adopt a modular approach to what they are
doing. By doing 3 sides and ends w/both straight tops and the
various heap shield designs, most of those 127,000 cars could be
modeled and almost all of the railroads in Ed's 2 and 3/4 page table
covering over 55 railroads could be done. I did not include the IC's
cars and their cousins. And many people do not want just 1-3 offset
twins.

While Kadee does beautiful models, and have added to the technology
and engineering of modeling in the way they have approached their
subjects, I would also argue that they have outsmarted themselves
with their approach to this particular car type and I think the shear
number of cars their model does not represent backs me up.

I hope that one of the manufacturers will wake up and see the
possibilities.
Bill,
The L&N had 3 series representing 5,000 prototype cars having side
arrangements essentially matching the Kadee model (not considering any
variations in the orientation of the side-stake angles). These were
series 32000-33999 (P-S 3-49), 76150-77649 (BSC 12-47), and 77750-79149
(P-S 3-48). As you pointed out, the difference is the end arrangement
having angular notched heap shields. If Kadee tooled a new pair of ends
having these heap shields, then additional models would include A&WP,
GA, Montour, SL-SF, TC, and WofA representing an additional 925
prototype cars.

If Kadee would tool the flat end arrangement used by B&O on their N-41
and N-44 cars (having regular AAR underframes) with Z-section vertical
supports, 8,000 prototype cars for B&O, LNE, and P&S would be
accurately represented (and possibly 500 more cars for CRP/CNJ).

Kadee has not yet produced models for two roads (ATSF and SL-SF) that
otherwise would match their model because the prototype cars had
Enterprise Type D door locks. Kadee offers models having Enterprise
latch and Wine door locks, which were the two most common types. The
NYC cars have been announced, and perhaps soon the C&EI cars will be
produced.

Regarding your comments about adopting a modular approach, Kadee's
model was designed essentially as a module in which each side and each
end are separate inserts. The core compromises the slope sheets and
hopper bottoms. Everything else is a detail part. Theoretically a new
pair of end inserts having the notched angular heap shields could be
tooled. The ends would be identical to the flat-top ends currently
available except they would have the correct heap shields for your L&N
cars and other roads identified above.

In my conversations with Kadee, it's my understanding that the company
has considered tooling ends having the heap shields as well as the ends
correct for the B&O N-41 and N-44 cars. Why hasn't Kadee produced these
variations? It comes down to the tooling cost versus the profit
potential. It's apparent to me that Kadee hasn't been able to justify
the cost versus the projected profit to be made for either of these
variations. If an entrepreneur or the L&N/B&O Historical Society could
guarantee sufficient sales to Kadee (i.e., a proprietary project), then
I believe Kadee would be open to tool the new ends.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Those Pesky Offset Twin hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:00 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

<SNIP>
So okay they are only doing one basic car body, especially as related
to the bottom of the side of the car. But they have failed to do the
cars with the heap shields. Several railroads had cars with this
configuration in small and large numbers. The L&N had only 7,200 cars
with angled heap shields and only 8,800 cars with the notched angular
heap shields. I have not calculated how many L&N cars matched the
Kadee car side but I know many did.

What really bugs me is that model companies do not see the
possibilities if they would adopt a modular approach to what they are
doing. By doing 3 sides and ends w/both straight tops and the
various heap shield designs, most of those 127,000 cars could be
modeled and almost all of the railroads in Ed's 2 and 3/4 page table
covering over 55 railroads could be done. I did not include the IC's
cars and their cousins. And many people do not want just 1-3 offset
twins.

While Kadee does beautiful models, and have added to the technology
and engineering of modeling in the way they have approached their
subjects, I would also argue that they have outsmarted themselves
with their approach to this particular car type and I think the shear
number of cars their model does not represent backs me up.

I hope that one of the manufacturers will wake up and see the
possibilities.
Bill,
The L&N had 3 series representing 5,000 prototype cars having side
arrangements essentially matching the Kadee model (not considering any
variations in the orientation of the side-stake angles). These were
series 32000-33999 (P-S 3-49), 76150-77649 (BSC 12-47), and 77750-79149
(P-S 3-48). As you pointed out, the difference is the end arrangement
having angular notched heap shields. If Kadee tooled a new pair of ends
having these heap shields, then additional models would include A&WP,
GA, Montour, SL-SF, TC, and WofA representing an additional 925
prototype cars.

If Kadee would tool the flat end arrangement used by B&O on their N-41
and N-44 cars (having regular AAR underframes) with Z-section vertical
supports, 8,000 prototype cars for B&O, LNE, and P&S would be
accurately represented (and possibly 500 more cars for CRP/CNJ).

Kadee has not yet produced models for two roads (ATSF and SL-SF) that
otherwise would match their model because the prototype cars had
Enterprise Type D door locks. Kadee offers models having Enterprise
latch and Wine door locks, which were the two most common types. The
NYC cars have been announced, and perhaps soon the C&EI cars will be
produced.

Regarding your comments about adopting a modular approach, Kadee's
model was designed essentially as a module in which each side and each
end are separate inserts. The core compromises the slope sheets and
hopper bottoms. Everything else is a detail part. Theoretically a new
pair of end inserts having the notched angular heap shields could be
tooled. The ends would be identical to the flat-top ends currently
available except they would have the correct heap shields for your L&N
cars and other roads identified above.

In my conversations with Kadee, it's my understanding that the company
has considered tooling ends having the heap shields as well as the ends
correct for the B&O N-41 and N-44 cars. Why hasn't Kadee produced these
variations? It comes down to the tooling cost versus the profit
potential. It's apparent to me that Kadee hasn't been able to justify
the cost versus the projected profit to be made for either of these
variations. If an entrepreneur or the L&N/B&O Historical Society could
guarantee sufficient sales to Kadee (i.e., a proprietary project), then
I believe Kadee would be open to tool the new ends.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Fred Freitas wrote:
Stop giving Mike & Jeff new ideas for Coco meet! Be careful of what you wish for, it may come to pass. How much are non-proto citations anyway ????
RIchard went as far as having fake police badges made, saying "Prototype Police," and with the slogan "To Serve and Correct." He made a great sight in his mirror aviator shades, flashing his badge at offenders <g>. We started to work on a ticket book but decided we were pushing the boat out a bit far.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Tim,
 
        Stop giving Mike & Jeff new ideas for Coco meet!  Be careful of what you wish for, it may come to pass.  How much are non-proto citations anyway ????
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Tue, 10/13/09, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 2:07 PM


 




I recall Richard joking about wearing shirts with
PROTOTYPE POLICE printed in large letters on the back
and having citation books printed... I thought it was
a good idea, although it would probably get us lynched
at most train shows. :-)

Tim O'Connor

I attended the 1990 Pittsburg convention. I remember seeing Richard walking with GN guru Staffan Einhbom (sp?) who I knew, wearing mineral brown shirts that said "Freight Car Mafia" on them. Impressive!
Bill Williams















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Al,
 
      It seems we are all a bit wider after sitting for so long building resin kits.
Tony, we may need to order XL=XXL=XXXL for the next printing. Hint, hint!
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Tue, 10/13/09, water.kresse@... <water.kresse@...> wrote:


From: water.kresse@... <water.kresse@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 2:55 PM


 





There is the bright dark-ish yellow shirt with black wooden box car and lettering version that I have.  The only problem is I'm not the same size any more . . . so it is a little tight.  I use it almost every year at the C&O conferences for FC presentations and have also used it at Naperville.

Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturep ress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com


Model Railroad Open House

jfbrewer@...
 

My layout will be open for the going home tours of the NMRA, MER Convention in Hagerstown, MD on Sunday, October 18, 2009 from 1-5 pm.  The layout features N&W's Shenandoah Valley Line between Front Royal and Waynesboro, VA, circa 1956, in HO scale.



I am located in western Howard County, just south of I-70 on MD Rt. 97 in Glenwood, MD.



If you are not attending the convention but would like to stop over, please contact me OFF LIST for directions at jfbrewer@...



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SFRD Reefer Questions

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 13, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Bob C wrote:

Does anyone know the answer to the following question?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
===================
A friend found SFRD 14970, an Rr-34, on the ground in western New
Mexico recently with the lettering mostly still legible (the black
was mostly worn off, but the orange underneath had faired better
than the orange that hadn't been protected by black). The car has
a paint date stencil PTD 10-58 WC, as well as a CONDEMNED WI 9-71
stencil by the number. Anybody have a list of maintenance location
codes they can point me to? I have a hunch WC is West Wichita and
WI is Winslow, but I'd like to make sure.
That's correct.

The car also has a couple of other interesting stencils: "Miller
Lubrs. applied -58, do not add waste. If defective notify test
department" and below it, "Atlas Lubrs. RPKD (illegible) SB
(illegible)." Were these different types of lubricator pads used
in lieu of cotton waste for wicking oil to the bearings in the
plain bearing trucks?
Yes. The Santa Fe experimented extensively with various types of
patented journal lubricators in the late 1950s.

Richard Hendrickson


SOURCE FOR 4/4 DREADNAUGHT ENDS

billkeene2004 <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

I am at the beginning of an effort to scratch build at least six MKT 47001-47500 series stock cars. I am in need of a source for 4/4 Dreadnaught ends for these cars that have an inside height of 8'-7".

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Ken Harstine contact

leakinmywaders
 

Does anyone have contact information for Ken Harstine, proprietor of the web site www.boxcars.us ? On or off-list reply is fine.

He's got a boxcar image posted at his web site that I'd like to make a query about, but the email contact function on the web site won't work (at least not for me with my default browser, Firefox). Thanks,

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


Re: SFRD Reefer Questions

Tim O'Connor
 

WC and WI are West Wichita and Winslow as your friend thought.

There were many types of replacements for "cotton waste" -- some
are listed in the CBC's but I can't find any reference to Miller
or Atlas lubricators.

Tim O'Connor

Does anyone know the answer to the following question?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
===================
A friend found SFRD 14970, an Rr-34, on the ground in western New Mexico recently with the lettering mostly still legible (the black was mostly worn off, but the orange underneath had faired better than the orange that hadn't been protected by black). The car has a paint date stencil PTD 10-58 WC, as well as a CONDEMNED WI 9-71 stencil by the number. Anybody have a list of maintenance location codes they can point me to? I have a hunch WC is West Wichita and WI is Winslow, but I'd like to make sure.

The car also has a couple of other interesting stencils: "Miller Lubrs. applied -58, do not add waste. If defective notify test department" and below it, "Atlas Lubrs. RPKD (illegible) SB (illegible)." Were these different types of lubricator pads used in lieu of cotton waste for wicking oil to the bearings in the plain bearing trucks?

Evan Werkema


Re: A Tribute to Tahoe Model Works

Tim O'Connor
 

I replaced the brass trucks on my W&R NP single sheathed box car
with Tahoe trucks -- a HUGE improvement in rolling performance!

Tim O'Connor

P.S. You get flyers from W&R? How do you get on the mailing list?

W&R, the brass importer, will be using Tahoe Model Works Dalman Trucks on its brass Northern Pacific 8000-8199 4 door auto boxcars that are scheduled to arrive in 4 versions in November of this year. The flyer from W&R includes this comment: "They look and roll better than any Korean truck. I am sure you will like this improvement. If you have not seen the Tahoe Model Works complete line of trucks at your hobby ship, take a look, the die work is superb."

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


SFRD Reefer Questions

Bob C <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

Does anyone know the answer to the following question?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
===================
A friend found SFRD 14970, an Rr-34, on the ground in western New Mexico recently with the lettering mostly still legible (the black was mostly worn off, but the orange underneath had faired better than the orange that hadn't been protected by black). The car has a paint date stencil PTD 10-58 WC, as well as a CONDEMNED WI 9-71 stencil by the number. Anybody have a list of maintenance location codes they can point me to? I have a hunch WC is West Wichita and WI is Winslow, but I'd like to make sure.

The car also has a couple of other interesting stencils: "Miller Lubrs. applied -58, do not add waste. If defective notify test department" and below it, "Atlas Lubrs. RPKD (illegible) SB (illegible)." Were these different types of lubricator pads used in lieu of cotton waste for wicking oil to the bearings in the plain bearing trucks?

Evan Werkema


A Tribute to Tahoe Model Works

gary laakso
 

W&R, the brass importer, will be using Tahoe Model Works Dalman Trucks on its brass Northern Pacific 8000-8199 4 door auto boxcars that are scheduled to arrive in 4 versions in November of this year. The flyer from W&R includes this comment: "They look and roll better than any Korean truck. I am sure you will like this improvement. If you have not seen the Tahoe Model Works complete line of trucks at your hobby ship, take a look, the die work is superb."


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


Re: Interesting book available for download

Charlie Vlk
 

Brian-
Same basic format, reprints from the Locomotive and Carbuilder's Cyclopedias; some photos, some plans.
Charlie Vlk

Charlie,

Wonderful resource you linked, I enjoyed perusing all 292 pages. Thank you much for presenting it here.

I have Lucas's "100 Year of Classic Steam Locomotives" but do not know about the other two Lucas titles you mentioned. Would you characterize them, please? Do they contain drawings?

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa

>
.


Re: Friends of the Freight Car Shirts

water.kresse@...
 

There is the bright dark-ish yellow shirt with black wooden box car and lettering version that I have.  The only problem is I'm not the same size any more . . . so it is a little tight.  I use it almost every year at the C&O conferences for FC presentations and have also used it at Naperville.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...