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Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 9:16 AM, dakkinder wrote:
Thanks Clark,
Well i just purchased a Intermountain #46305 8000 gal riveted Canton tank car company it has a white tank and red lettering i beleive this would fit into my era's .
It's hard to be specific and frustrating when i have little knowledge of the subject. All i can say is this is what i want to do does anyone have any suggestions as far as road names and paint schemes etc and then i will hunt them down and put them together or buy them.
Doug,

Do what I do, search the archives BEFORE you buy <G>! As for what to look for, the vast majority of tank cars were privately owned, which is reflected in the models offered. Those private fleets changed over time with mergers, so again, what is appropriate for the 1930s is completely wrong for the 1940s, etc. Certain tank car lines served certain oil companies, usually regionally, so if you are modeling specific facilities then you need to look in the archives or ask about that company. If you're modeling based on the national fleet as described in the archives (as I do for WWII), then you're in deep doo doo since you need buckets of UTLX cars, but the IM UTLX marked type 27 is incorrectly painted, and there is no RTR model of the common UTLX X-3 class cars (there is a resin kit). What that leaves you with is SHPX marked cars as an excellent starting point. For other specific owners, search the archives with "tank car midwest" and enjoy the reading material you will generate ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

dakkinder
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:



Doug, the guys on this list are extremely helpful. But, it might be better for you to find models that are available to purchase (most road names are made in limited runs). Then ask it they're appropriate for what you're modeling.
Clark Propst
Thanks Clark,
Well i just purchased a Intermountain #46305 8000 gal riveted Canton tank car company it has a white tank and red lettering i beleive this would fit into my era's .
It's hard to be specific and frustrating when i have little knowledge of the subject. All i can say is this is what i want to do does anyone have any suggestions as far as road names and paint schemes etc and then i will hunt them down and put them together or buy them.


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

Clark Propst
 

Doug, the guys on this list are extremely helpful. But, it might be better for you to find models that are available to purchase (most road names are made in limited runs). Then ask it they're appropriate for what you're modeling.
Clark Propst


What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

dakkinder
 

In the 1930's and from 1940 till 1955. I am specifically looking at the Proto 2k series of cars and the Intermountain cars .
Also to be more detailed about my question the rail roads i'm depicting are the CNW,CB&Q,MILW .
I'm wanting to know the specific road /owner names and paint schemes that are available in both of the above mentioned manufacturers that would be appropriate for my needs.
Any help would be appreciated
Doug Kinder


Re: Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses -

jerryglow2
 

Plans and a scratch building article appeared in a very early issue of Mainline Modeler.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Jun 20, 2010, at 6:19 PM, mbcarson2002 wrote:

Visually, a photograph of Western Pacific 764 matches the MRM kit,
photographs of Missouri Pacific 333 - 369 series cabooses in Michels
"Cabooses of The Missouri Pacific Lines", and the drawings and
pictures in the Car Builders Dictionaries of 1916 and 1919. Plans in
Mainline Modeler Volume I Number 4 (Sept/Oct 1980) suggest other Gould
lines acquired similar, if not identical, cabooses.

Both the Car Builders Dictionaries and the Michels book give AC&F in
1911, as the builder of record.

Can anyone provide additional information, such as build lot numbers
or details on other operators?
Mike,
AC&F lot no. 5970 was an order for 25 Missouri Pacific cabooses
numbered 333-347 and 361-370. They were split due to MP 348-360
already being assigned. The order was placed on May 3, 1910, and the
cabooses were built at AC&F's plant at Jeffersonville, Indiana. Hope
this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Re: Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses -

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Mike,

Most of the Gould roads used similar equipment designs, especially with locomotives. Cabooses seem to have followed similar, but NOT identical, designs from at least around 1898 (MP, AC&F-built IIRC) into the 1920s (WP post-Gould homebuilts). There were differences in almost every order. In general Gould-road cabooses had the same body design, three windows per side in the same positions, and wide platforms with tender-type steps. Roofs and cupolas, however, varied quite a bit, and underframes evolved from all wood to composite with steel center sills, bolsters and needle beams.

As for the phrase "Gould standard", there was no such thing. I know, because I originated the term, and wish I never had. I used to put it in quotes with a lower case "s", but it has migrated into otherwise well-researched railfan books and is treated as an official term. Bad, bad, bad.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

mbcarson2002 wrote:

Hello, List;

I recently have been investigating the later Gould Railroads. Mullet River Models (MRM) has recently released a Western Pacific Caboose, that is stipulated to be a Gould Standard Wooden Caboose. A series of Google searches lends credence to the stipulation. Other Gould system railroads were the Missouri Pacific, the Wabash, the Denver & Rio Grande, the Western Pacific & subsidiary roads.

Visually, a photograph of Western Pacific 764 matches the MRM kit, photographs of Missouri Pacific 333 - 369 series cabooses in Michels "Cabooses of The Missouri Pacific Lines", and the drawings and pictures in the Car Builders Dictionaries of 1916 and 1919. Plans in Mainline Modeler Volume I Number 4 (Sept/Oct 1980) suggest other Gould lines acquired similar, if not identical, cabooses.

Both the Car Builders Dictionaries and the Michels book give AC&F in 1911, as the builder of record.

Can anyone provide additional information, such as build lot numbers or details on other operators?

TIA, Mike Carson


Re: [Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Carson wrote:
Mullet River Models (MRM) has recently released a Western Pacific Caboose, that is stipulated to be a Gould Standard Wooden Caboose. A series of Google searches lends credence to the stipulation. Other Gould system railroads were the Missouri Pacific, the Wabash, the Denver & Rio Grande, the Western Pacific & subsidiary roads.
I've been told, though I'm no Gould Road expert, that there was no STANDARD Gould caboose, though several of the roads had very similar ones. Likely someone on this list knows more ( . . . much more! <g>)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses -

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 20, 2010, at 6:19 PM, mbcarson2002 wrote:

Visually, a photograph of Western Pacific 764 matches the MRM kit,
photographs of Missouri Pacific 333 - 369 series cabooses in Michels
"Cabooses of The Missouri Pacific Lines", and the drawings and
pictures in the Car Builders Dictionaries of 1916 and 1919. Plans in
Mainline Modeler Volume I Number 4 (Sept/Oct 1980) suggest other Gould
lines acquired similar, if not identical, cabooses.

Both the Car Builders Dictionaries and the Michels book give AC&F in
1911, as the builder of record.

Can anyone provide additional information, such as build lot numbers
or details on other operators?
Mike,
AC&F lot no. 5970 was an order for 25 Missouri Pacific cabooses
numbered 333-347 and 361-370. They were split due to MP 348-360
already being assigned. The order was placed on May 3, 1910, and the
cabooses were built at AC&F's plant at Jeffersonville, Indiana. Hope
this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses -

mbcarson2002
 

Hello, List;

I recently have been investigating the later Gould Railroads. Mullet River Models (MRM) has recently released a Western Pacific Caboose, that is stipulated to be a Gould Standard Wooden Caboose. A series of Google searches lends credence to the stipulation. Other Gould system railroads were the Missouri Pacific, the Wabash, the Denver & Rio Grande, the Western Pacific & subsidiary roads.

Visually, a photograph of Western Pacific 764 matches the MRM kit, photographs of Missouri Pacific 333 - 369 series cabooses in Michels "Cabooses of The Missouri Pacific Lines", and the drawings and pictures in the Car Builders Dictionaries of 1916 and 1919. Plans in Mainline Modeler Volume I Number 4 (Sept/Oct 1980) suggest other Gould lines acquired similar, if not identical, cabooses.

Both the Car Builders Dictionaries and the Michels book give AC&F in 1911, as the builder of record.

Can anyone provide additional information, such as build lot numbers or details on other operators?

TIA, Mike Carson


Re: Wood Kits

riverman_vt <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Don Valentine <riverman_vt@> wrote:
Anytime a genuine wood, as opposed to say wood chip and resin,
product is used for anything it is extremely important to seal ALL
surfaces of it.
Yes, I agree it's better to seal all surfaces. What about silk screened car sides like the one included in the old Mainline kits? Any comments Denny?

Ed
I can't speak for Denny, Ed, but have three Mainline express reefer kits (I'll bet you can guess which ones, too! (-: ) that were built back in the late 1960's at the MIT club when I belonged to that
group. They are not used much these days and have been stored in a
number of locations since and seem to have had few problems when I last viewd them a couple of months ago.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Excuses for getting more covered (cement) hoppers?

riverman_vt <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Don

The Genesee & Wyoming owned no freight cars at all in 1959, but by
1963 they had acquired 100 40' box cars w/ 7' doors (from ?) and 50
unique roll-up roof covered hoppers (rebuilds). By 1965 they added
100 brand new Pullman Standard 3500cft covered hoppers (you can
imagine
how long those lasted in salt service!). Jim Sands posted an
excellent
shot of GNWR 710034 in Marshalltown Iowa in 1969. Ultimately I guess
they figured out that used cars was the way to go -- I'd see whole
unit trains of them in the early 1990's.

Leo Landry built a gorgeous model of one of the roll-up roof hoppers
but I think it was burned up in his apartment fire in Bellows Falls.

So sadly for STMFC fans, no G&W freight cars.

Tim O'Connor

Thanks for that info, Tim, even if it does eliminate any justification for G&W rollingstock with my 1948 cut-off date.

Leo Landry is one of the nicest people one could meet but the poor fellow's luck seems to run somewhere bewteen slim and none.
Few of us have suffered the tragedies he has had to live with in
recent years.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Reproducing Z-bars on single sheathed cars

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Ed - All of our SS box cars that have Z-bars have undercuts. In general the undercuts are 0.10", just enough to give the proper look. A scale Z-bar would have a cross section too thin to survive removal from the mold. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: spsalso
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Reproducing Z-bars on single sheathed cars



I believe it's practically impossible on an injection molded single sheathed boxcar to reproduce the undercut to model the Z-bars that were commonly used. But I'm wondering if this is also the case for cast resin models. Is anyone aware of resin-cast single sheathed cars where the undercutting to reproduce the Z-bars properly was done?

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Reproducing Z-bars on single sheathed cars

Randy Hammill
 

Yes, the Speedwitch K104 series for the 36' Fowler Patent boxcar has undercut z-bars for the side bracing. The sheathing for the master was obviously built board-by-board as well and it's a beautiful model. It's also a one-piece body.

I'm not sure if any of the other kits have the undercut z-bars.

Randy Hammill
http://newbritainstation.com

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "spsalso" <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

I believe it's practically impossible on an injection molded single sheathed boxcar to reproduce the undercut to model the Z-bars that were commonly used. But I'm wondering if this is also the case for cast resin models. Is anyone aware of resin-cast single sheathed cars where the undercutting to reproduce the Z-bars properly was done?


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: I want to get some 8000 gal tank cars .What is the best one ?

Bruce Smith
 

Doug said:

First off the time frame i would like to depict would be early 30's to
the early 50's the roads will be Milwaukee.CNW,CB&Q 0>etc .

I'll agree with Tony about the time frame issue! The 1950s time frame
for example would also include the Red Caboose welded tank car (although
most schemes are bogus) but that car would be completely innappropriate
for 1930-1950 (actually 1948 IIRC). Another important note would be the
use of the cars. Prior to and through WWII, they were used to haul
crude oil to refineries, and refined products to distributors/sales
outlets. After WWII, they were almost exclusively used for the latter
purpose.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Fw: N&W hopper conversions

Armand Premo
 

Thank you Jeff.It won't be the first error I have found on wheel reports.I was even more confused when I checked a 1949 ORER.The design seems to be very similar a Pennsy covered hopper.Thanks again for your help Jeff. I will be able to sleep better now.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: traininsp
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 7:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Fw: N&W hopper conversions



Armand,

Looks like the Rutland wheel report is incorrect, 70276 was an N&W HC-3 covered hopper.
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2150.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2149.jpeg

Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 10:43 AM
> Subject: N&W hopper conversions
>
>
> >I am seeking information on N&W hopper conversions specifically 70276.A
> >11/30/50 Rutland wheel report had it listed merely as an empty hopper
> >while a 1949 ORER has them with loading roof hatches and classified as
> >LO.Any information on these cars would be appreciated.Armand Premo
>






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Re: Fw: N&W hopper conversions

Jeff Coleman
 

Armand,

Looks like the Rutland wheel report is incorrect, 70276 was an N&W HC-3 covered hopper.
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2150.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2149.jpeg

Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:



To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 10:43 AM
Subject: N&W hopper conversions


I am seeking information on N&W hopper conversions specifically 70276.A
11/30/50 Rutland wheel report had it listed merely as an empty hopper
while a 1949 ORER has them with loading roof hatches and classified as
LO.Any information on these cars would be appreciated.Armand Premo


Re: Identifying cars on video

Richard Townsend
 

Thanks for your response. It answers two of my questions. As for the third, you made me go back and take another look. On the N&W boxcar, the roof, ends, and sides look like dark masses. There is no clarity at all. But it looks like the number is 474XX.

Thanks.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Reproducing Z-bars on single sheathed cars

spsalso
 

I believe it's practically impossible on an injection molded single sheathed boxcar to reproduce the undercut to model the Z-bars that were commonly used. But I'm wondering if this is also the case for cast resin models. Is anyone aware of resin-cast single sheathed cars where the undercutting to reproduce the Z-bars properly was done?


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Excuses for getting more covered (cement) hoppers?

Tim O'Connor
 

Don

The Genesee & Wyoming owned no freight cars at all in 1959, but by
1963 they had acquired 100 40' box cars w/ 7' doors (from ?) and 50
unique roll-up roof covered hoppers (rebuilds). By 1965 they added
100 brand new Pullman Standard 3500cft covered hoppers (you can imagine
how long those lasted in salt service!). Jim Sands posted an excellent
shot of GNWR 710034 in Marshalltown Iowa in 1969. Ultimately I guess
they figured out that used cars was the way to go -- I'd see whole
unit trains of them in the early 1990's.

Leo Landry built a gorgeous model of one of the roll-up roof hoppers
but I think it was burned up in his apartment fire in Bellows Falls.

So sadly for STMFC fans, no G&W freight cars.

Tim O'Connor

Like you, I remember the salt traffic comong off the G&W quite well,
particualrly into Claremont, NH and Middlesex, VT but when did this really
get under way???? I do not recall seeing any of it until the VERY late 1960's
or early 1970's, beyond the scope of this group. Kindest regards and please
say hello to our two mutual acquaintances in Boulder.
Don Valentine


Re: Another way to haul wood

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:48 AM, S hed wrote:

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/ imlsmohai&CISOPTR=3613&CISOBOX=1&REC=18

It's too bad the vessel in the background isn't more
visible; it *could* be related to
<http://www.maritime.org/wapama.htm>; hordes of
similar vessels plied the Pacific Coast of North
America and brought "billions and billions"[0]
of board foots of lumber to railheads. I *might*
have tracked down enough paper from which to build
a model for a scene like that. Gotta check soonest.

[0] thank you, Doctor Carl Sagacious (Steve
Allen character)
--
Nolan Hinshaw, native Californian since 1944
"Every freight train has at least one NP box car"
the Brock Corollary to the GN hypothesis

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