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Re: First all-steel box cars?

Wendye Ware
 

Thanks Tim. Frank's post and the replies to it establish that the B&LE cars were actually built, but do not address the issue of whether they were the first non-experimental steel cars built in the U.S. or Canada.

The B&LE cars were not the first steel cars, as claimed by the author Frank quotes - the U.P. series 100000-100026, built in 1906, predates them, and I think there were a few steel cars built earlier. The Railway Age Gazette author considers the U.P. series "experimental", however, as seen in the quote below. The Gazette author also mentions non-experimental steel cars being in use in Chile (see his article), which is why my question has the qualifier "built in the U.S. or Canada."

So again I ask: Do the B&LE cars constitute the first non-experimental use in the USA and Canada of all-steel box cars?

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Larry

Frank Valoczy brought this up on 10/22/2007 -- subject line was
"B&LE cars".

Tim O'Connor



At 1/6/2010 08:31 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Hi Everyone

I came across the following paragraphs in Railway Age Gazette, Vol. 53, No. 26 (December 27, 1912), pp. 1239-40. This issue of the Gazette in on-line at Google Books.

"The wooden freight car is still being built, but in very small numbers. Steel hopper, gondola and flat cars have become almost standard practice. Several roads have not only definitely abandoned wood for the underframing of box cars, but have introduced steel in the framework of the superstructure to a greater or less extent. One large order for all-steel box cars has been placed during 1912. The Harriman lines have had a number of such cars in experimental service for several years; no trouble has been experienced from sweating or condensation and the cars have given satisfactory service. ...

"The Bessemer & Lake Erie has ordered one hundred all-steel box cars, in the faith that they will be especially efficient for the cement trade in which they are to be used. It will be remembered that it was this road, when it was the Pittsburgh, Bessemer & Lake Erie, that gave the first commercial order to Charles T. Schoen for all-steel hopper bottom ore cars of 50 tons capacity and so demonstrated to the country the value of that type of rolling stock. It will be an interesting coincidence if history should repeat itself and this order for steel box cars should serve as a demonstration of their value for general traffic. Be this as it may, there is a widespread opinion that we are on the eve of the definite abandonment of wood and the adoption of steel for box car construction."

The table "Cars and Locomotives Ordered in 1912" elsewhere in the same Gazette (p.1259) shows that the B&LE ordered 100 all-steel box cars of 100,000 pounds capacity from Summers Steel. Does anyone know if these cars were actually built? If so, does this event constitute the first non-experimental use in the USA and Canada of all-steel box cars?

Thanks,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming
Westerfield 3900 reefers

Dave Nelson
 

The Westerfield 3900 series of reefer models say the cars were leased from
Armour to Heinz and others in the billboard reefer era. There's nothing
there about equivalent Armour cars and/or what happened to the cars after
the billboard era. Anyone know? It looks like an interesting model and so
I am wondering how long they lasted in service to Heinz and to Armour.

Dave Nelson
Freight car books on Ebay

rgos43 <gossport43@...>
 

Group,

I have listed several good freight car books on Ebay at decent starting prices. Mosr are in like new condition. Look under seller "gossport43" without the quotes.

Thanks,

Will
Re: Terrell Cotton Oil Co

Cyril Durrenberger
 

They most likely hauled cotton oil.

Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rich C <rhcdmc@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Rich C <rhcdmc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Terrell Cotton Oil Co
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:10 PM







 









I know an over a year old reply. I found this info on the RPI site.

 

In 1919, this Terrell, TX company listed 10 8,000-gallon tank cars, nos. 1-10, said to be marked with the name as above and "T.C.O.Co."

 

Rich Christie



--- On Wed, 9/17/08, matthewjstrickland <matthewjstrickland@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:



From: matthewjstrickland <matthewjstrickland@ yahoo.co. uk>

Subject: [STMFC] Terrell Cotton Oil Co

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 4:02 AM



Hi Guys,



Does anyone have any information regarding the Terrell Cotton Oil

Company and their tanks cars?



Their reporting marks, history, transport of what and why etc



thanks for your help



MATT



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Continental Oil Tank Cars

Rich C
 

Another OLD reply, been cleaning up my email finally and besides been in a tank car modeling mood lately!
 
CTAX belonged to Continental Tank Car Company, no relationship to Continental Oil. CONX is the only reporting marks that I know of for Continental Oil/Conoco.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Wed, 9/17/08, matthewjstrickland <matthewjstrickland@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


From: matthewjstrickland <matthewjstrickland@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [STMFC] Continental Oil Tank Cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 3:59 AM






hi tehre,

Can anyone tell me if Continental Oil used Tank Cars with any other
reporting marks than CONX and CTAX? i.e. Did they lease any cars from
GATX, UTLX etc?

Also when did they change their reporting marks from CONX to CTAX or
did they run concurrently?

thanks for your help

MATT


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: First all-steel box cars?

Tim O'Connor
 

Larry

Frank Valoczy brought this up on 10/22/2007 -- subject line was
"B&LE cars".

Tim O'Connor

At 1/6/2010 08:31 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Hi Everyone

I came across the following paragraphs in Railway Age Gazette, Vol. 53, No. 26 (December 27, 1912), pp. 1239-40. This issue of the Gazette in on-line at Google Books.

"The wooden freight car is still being built, but in very small numbers. Steel hopper, gondola and flat cars have become almost standard practice. Several roads have not only definitely abandoned wood for the underframing of box cars, but have introduced steel in the framework of the superstructure to a greater or less extent. One large order for all-steel box cars has been placed during 1912. The Harriman lines have had a number of such cars in experimental service for several years; no trouble has been experienced from sweating or condensation and the cars have given satisfactory service. ...

"The Bessemer & Lake Erie has ordered one hundred all-steel box cars, in the faith that they will be especially efficient for the cement trade in which they are to be used. It will be remembered that it was this road, when it was the Pittsburgh, Bessemer & Lake Erie, that gave the first commercial order to Charles T. Schoen for all-steel hopper bottom ore cars of 50 tons capacity and so demonstrated to the country the value of that type of rolling stock. It will be an interesting coincidence if history should repeat itself and this order for steel box cars should serve as a demonstration of their value for general traffic. Be this as it may, there is a widespread opinion that we are on the eve of the definite abandonment of wood and the adoption of steel for box car construction."

The table "Cars and Locomotives Ordered in 1912" elsewhere in the same Gazette (p.1259) shows that the B&LE ordered 100 all-steel box cars of 100,000 pounds capacity from Summers Steel. Does anyone know if these cars were actually built? If so, does this event constitute the first non-experimental use in the USA and Canada of all-steel box cars?

Thanks,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming
Re: Terrell Cotton Oil Co

Rich C
 

I know an over a year old reply. I found this info on the RPI site.
 
In 1919, this Terrell, TX company listed 10 8,000-gallon tank cars, nos. 1-10, said to be marked with the name as above and "T.C.O.Co."
 
Rich Christie

--- On Wed, 9/17/08, matthewjstrickland <matthewjstrickland@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


From: matthewjstrickland <matthewjstrickland@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [STMFC] Terrell Cotton Oil Co
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 4:02 AM






Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any information regarding the Terrell Cotton Oil
Company and their tanks cars?

Their reporting marks, history, transport of what and why etc

thanks for your help

MATT


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Excellent Clinic at Cocoa Beach

Allen Rueter
 

Tim, he splells it Vaughan

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO
First all-steel box cars?

Wendye Ware
 

Hi Everyone

I came across the following paragraphs in Railway Age Gazette, Vol. 53, No. 26 (December 27, 1912), pp. 1239-40. This issue of the Gazette in on-line at Google Books.

"The wooden freight car is still being built, but in very small numbers. Steel hopper, gondola and flat cars have become almost standard practice. Several roads have not only definitely abandoned wood for the underframing of box cars, but have introduced steel in the framework of the superstructure to a greater or less extent. One large order for all-steel box cars has been placed during 1912. The Harriman lines have had a number of such cars in experimental service for several years; no trouble has been experienced from sweating or condensation and the cars have given satisfactory service. ...

"The Bessemer & Lake Erie has ordered one hundred all-steel box cars, in the faith that they will be especially efficient for the cement trade in which they are to be used. It will be remembered that it was this road, when it was the Pittsburgh, Bessemer & Lake Erie, that gave the first commercial order to Charles T. Schoen for all-steel hopper bottom ore cars of 50 tons capacity and so demonstrated to the country the value of that type of rolling stock. It will be an interesting coincidence if history should repeat itself and this order for steel box cars should serve as a demonstration of their value for general traffic. Be this as it may, there is a widespread opinion that we are on the eve of the definite abandonment of wood and the adoption of steel for box car construction."

The table "Cars and Locomotives Ordered in 1912" elsewhere in the same Gazette (p.1259) shows that the B&LE ordered 100 all-steel box cars of 100,000 pounds capacity from Summers Steel. Does anyone know if these cars were actually built? If so, does this event constitute the first non-experimental use in the USA and Canada of all-steel box cars?

Thanks,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming
Update: BASH at the Beach / Shake N Take

Greg Martin
 

Guys,
Here is the updated list of who is officially pre-registered for the hands
on clinic for Shake n Take~Bash at the Beach. I have had a couple of
cancellations and have entered some stand-by names. There will be an opportunity
to register for the 10 reserved seats at the registration desk.

Thanks,

Greg Martin




This year we shall be known as Bash at the Beach ~ Shake N Take....

Here is how we stand so far and I am stopping here.

I have gone out on a limb here and I am going to come up with six (6)
additional kits... I might find them at a swap meet locally.

Thanks to Mont, Dave and Tim who are providing their own kits as there is
a
twist to this little project.

If you would like to follow along with a set of Handouts let me know as
they too will be limited as well.

I am stopping here and going to leave eleven spots for walk-ins at the
event.

Remember email me off list. __tgregmrtn@Remember emai
(mailto:__tgregmrtn@aol._tg_ (mailto:_tgregmrtn@aol.com) ) _
(mailto:__tgregmrtn@aol._tg_ (mailto:_tgregmrtn@aol.tgr) _ (mailto:_tgregmrtn@aol.tgr_
(mailto:tgregmrtn@aol.com) ) )

I have split the list for those that are looking for ends, trucks, decals
and
handout.

Greg Martin

1.) Armand Premo
2.) John Burroughs
3.) Mike Moore
4.) Denny Anspach
5.) John Greedy
6.) Tony Thompson
7.)Dave Hussey
8.) Lindsay Raley
9.) Bill Welch
10.) Jim Singer
11.) Roger Hinman
12.) John Cantlay
13.) Gary Laaskso
14.) Schuyler Larrabee
15.) Al Brown
16.) Richard Berry
17.) Jerry Glow
18.) John Wheeler
19.) Bruce Smith
20.) Monte Zelazny
21.) Jared Harper
22.) Chet French
23.) Stan Rydarowicz (via cell phone)
24.) Rob Simpson
25.) Bill McCoy
26.)

Kits Self Provided:
1.) Dave Sieber (memo to myself~does not require a kit~ends, trucks,
handout and decals only)
2.) Mont Switzer (memo to myself~does not require a kit~ends, trucks,
handout and decals only)

Handouts only:
1.) Mike Smeltzer


(http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYmUxZjBwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjU5NjM1NzY4
)




.
Re: Chalk Marks

jerryglow2
 

Clover House makes them in black or white. I scan them (any) at high resolution and print out to use as examples when doing my own. Photoshop will let you "reverse" black and white so no problem.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bobster1269" <samplesschott@...> wrote:

I plan on using colored pencils to put chalk marks on HO boxcars. Does anyone know of a reference showing historic chalk markings? The Sunshine decals are excellent but a bit too small for me to read. I'd prefer something printed larger in black and white.

Thanks,

Bob Schott
Re: Southern Milk car lettering

Don Worthy
 

Thank you, Bill. I look forward to what you find out. I've asked some "Southern" folks with no reply.
The shots I have do look green with gold Southern and car numbers but, can make out the other lettering.
The big difference is one photo shows 2 cars 3937 and behind it 3938.They both have pecked roofs and both look to have ice hatchs. 3937 sure does.
The other shot of 3954 is more of a side shot but, does not have ice hatch and the roof looks to be more of a rounded top.  Again the little lettering can not be made out.
Thanks again, Bill
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga

--- On Wed, 1/6/10, lnbill <fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:


From: lnbill <fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Southern Milk car lettering
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 12:03 PM


 



Dear Don::

I will be seeing someone this weekend who is a Southern RR freight car person and I will ask him. I have two photos of these cars as well, but with identical details and I think they were Green with gold stenciling but I cannot say I am 100% on this.

I do know that the examples I have were originally in service to Southeastern Express, a company I believe was owned by the Southern who was a holdout from Railway Express. In this ownership their reporting marks were S.E.X. (no kidding) I cannot believe how long I have been looking for an excuse to share that little tidbit.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "don_worthy" <don_worthy@ ...> wrote:

Can anyone shed some light for the lettering on the milk cars the Southern had?
Numbers 3925 to 39XX.
I was given two shots some years ago. They must have been made during the mid to
late 30s.
The two photos show that this group was not all the same type cars. One photo of
3945 shows it to have Ice hatches and a peaked roof. The photo of 3954 does not
have hatches and seems to have a rounded roof.
The Southern and car numbers (left of door) plus what appears to be "capy"???
It looks like 3 lines. I can't make it out.The word Milk is on the Rightside of
the door and some smaller lettering down low on carside. Can't tell what it is,
either.

Also, would there be car number on the ends? anyother end lettering?
I noticed by 1953 there were only 3 cars in service. I wonder if their lettering
had changed with the times like regular freight cars??
Can anyone advise?

Thank you
Don Worthy










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chalk Marks

bobster1269
 

I plan on using colored pencils to put chalk marks on HO boxcars. Does anyone know of a reference showing historic chalk markings? The Sunshine decals are excellent but a bit too small for me to read. I'd prefer something printed larger in black and white.

Thanks,

Bob Schott
Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine

Rhbale@...
 

The 150-page Jan-Feb 2010 issue of the Model Railroad Hobbyist eZine is
now available free at _http://model-http://mohttp://mohtt_
(http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com)
Richard Bale
News Editor, Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine
Re: Southern Milk car lettering

Bill Welch
 

Dear Don::

I will be seeing someone this weekend who is a Southern RR freight car person and I will ask him. I have two photos of these cars as well, but with identical details and I think they were Green with gold stenciling but I cannot say I am 100% on this.

I do know that the examples I have were originally in service to Southeastern Express, a company I believe was owned by the Southern who was a holdout from Railway Express. In this ownership their reporting marks were S.E.X. (no kidding) I cannot believe how long I have been looking for an excuse to share that little tidbit.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "don_worthy" <don_worthy@...> wrote:

Can anyone shed some light for the lettering on the milk cars the Southern had?
Numbers 3925 to 39XX.
I was given two shots some years ago. They must have been made during the mid to
late 30s.
The two photos show that this group was not all the same type cars. One photo of
3945 shows it to have Ice hatches and a peaked roof. The photo of 3954 does not
have hatches and seems to have a rounded roof.
The Southern and car numbers (left of door) plus what appears to be "capy"???
It looks like 3 lines. I can't make it out.The word Milk is on the Rightside of
the door and some smaller lettering down low on carside. Can't tell what it is,
either.

Also, would there be car number on the ends? anyother end lettering?
I noticed by 1953 there were only 3 cars in service. I wonder if their lettering
had changed with the times like regular freight cars??
Can anyone advise?

Thank you
Don Worthy
Re: Wilson reefer (bogus?)

Mike Fortney
 

Just to add a tad more to the thickening plot, here's a snip from a post from the J6 group this morning:

"Next, while employed as an assistant trainmaster in 1973 for the C&NW out of Janesville, WI I remember seeing former Wilson Meat reefers repainted in solid red orange, lite yellow and yes baby blue with only WCLX reporting marks and numbers handling meat products for Oscar Mayer out of Madison, WI.

Barry"

Granted this does little to nothing to verify the car's P/L scheme on the eBay auction. I am however, amazed that this "Barry" has the ability to project himself thirteen years into the future (in past tense yet!).
Must be some sort of time traveler....

Mike Fortney

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:

I can't pinpoint when they began using the TRAX mark.

Tim O'Connor

TRAX in 54 and PCX in 57. The 1-2000 ARLX series steel cars new in 49 were rebuilt and renumbered in the late 50s and 60s to 8000 series and I believe a couple other series that slip my mind. Gene's reefer book might say what the others were?
Clark Propst

I have waybills from the mid 60s for Wilson cars shipped out of Albert Lea MN on the IC. The IC used the M&StL yard there, but the RI and MIlW had access to the plant....the plot thickens....
Re: Excellent Clinic at Cocoa Beach

jerryglow2
 

It's Vaughan but my browser found it on the clinic schedule after entering vau (only)

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


What's the correct spelling of Mark's name -- Vaughn or Vaughan?
I've seen it both ways, but usually with the second "a" -- makes
it harder to search for it if I can't spell it.

Tim O'Connor
Re: Prototype Rails and Shake/Take

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Denny Anspach wrote:

As we speak, and like so many others on this list, I have been busy
packing my Speedo, sun screen, shades, muscle shirts, and sandals,
ready to hit the sun-dappled beach at Cocoa Beach tomorrow. Wow!

Denny S. Anspach MD
Haven't we been threatened with this before? And didn't we decide that when Denny's in a Speedo, "MD" stands for "Moby Dick"?

Tom Madden
Re: Excellent Clinic at Cocoa Beach

Tim O'Connor
 

What's the correct spelling of Mark's name -- Vaughn or Vaughan?
I've seen it both ways, but usually with the second "a" -- makes
it harder to search for it if I can't spell it.

Tim O'Connor

At 1/5/2010 10:36 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
For those coming to Cocoa this weekend, I encourage you to catch Mark Vaughn's clinic. It was one of the best at Naperville.

Bill Welch
Excellent Clinic at Cocoa Beach

Bill Welch
 

For those coming to Cocoa this weekend, I encourage you to catch Mark Vaughn's clinic. It was one of the best at Naperville.

Bill Welch
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