Date   

Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

drgwrail
 

Been so ong since I did the LV Steam book as well as the drawings that were in
RMC that my recollection is foggy!

Don't know the answer to the air line question.

I made the drawings in RMC from original LV vellums. No longer have these but
loaned them to ARHS and they copied all of the vellums I had. Unfortunately, as
you probably know, the air brake piping and components are on a separate drawing
than the general erection one.

The LV erection drawing clearly show dimples pressed into the slope sheets to
provide clearance for the wheel treads.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO



________________________________
From: Claus Schlund (HGM) <claus@hellgatemodels.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 5:53:09 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

 
Hi Donald, Tim, Al,

Al wrote:

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.
However, on page 63 of the same book there appears to be one of the referenced
composite cars (hard to know for certain, since it is
only a partial view with no road number visible) clearly showing an outside
train pipe.

Can someone confirm that this car on page 63 is the same hopper car class as is
under discussion?

- Claus at Hell Gate Models

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Ford" <ford.donald77@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

Tim
Yes they had dimples or depresions in the slope heets, and the comsosite cars
had upside down pans fastened the the composie slope sheets if I read Chuck Y's
drawings rite. Both the photos in the RMC August 1997 article and I am guessing
that he used the same photos in his book on the Leheigh Valley, same numbers,
are of the side that would not have had the train air line using standard
pratice. Rich Christe said that his info on the twin hoppers these cars were
rebuilt into had the outside train air line. I also have a photo of one of
these cars its 3/4 end view but does shown the air line. They cut the frame
when the cars were rebuilt and could have rerouted it at that time. I am going
to go with train air line down the center sill. Well my car will be run on a
modular layout so I will just keep the left side out and the air line cop
shouldn't be albe to see it.
Thanks
Don Ford
Kanab UT

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 12:27:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

Didn't these cars require "dimples" on the underside to
clear the wheels/truck-swing? Maybe the train line was run
down the center line of the car to avoid interference?

Tim O'Connor

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Donald, Tim, Al,

Al wrote:

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.
However, on page 63 of the same book there appears to be one of the referenced composite cars (hard to know for certain, since it is
only a partial view with no road number visible) clearly showing an outside train pipe.

Can someone confirm that this car on page 63 is the same hopper car class as is under discussion?

- Claus at Hell Gate Models




----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Ford" <ford.donald77@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper


Tim
Yes they had dimples or depresions in the slope heets, and the comsosite cars
had upside down pans fastened the the composie slope sheets if I read Chuck Y's
drawings rite. Both the photos in the RMC August 1997 article and I am guessing
that he used the same photos in his book on the Leheigh Valley, same numbers,
are of the side that would not have had the train air line using standard
pratice. Rich Christe said that his info on the twin hoppers these cars were
rebuilt into had the outside train air line. I also have a photo of one of
these cars its 3/4 end view but does shown the air line. They cut the frame
when the cars were rebuilt and could have rerouted it at that time. I am going
to go with train air line down the center sill. Well my car will be run on a
modular layout so I will just keep the left side out and the air line cop
shouldn't be albe to see it.
Thanks
Don Ford
Kanab UT




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 12:27:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper



Didn't these cars require "dimples" on the underside to
clear the wheels/truck-swing? Maybe the train line was run
down the center line of the car to avoid interference?

Tim O'Connor

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.










------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: NRC/IC Reefers

FRANK PEACOCK
 

Group, While going through a copy of an IC System List (Jan. 1, 1946) I found the following notation at the bottom of the Reefers: "#NRC 10000-10499 Steel Underframe- refgr.-Banana Loading" (plus some dimensional data). The # Means "Not included in totals." Number of cars was 490. The list also has 10 other IC Reefer series for banana loading. Don't know if this is of any interest. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: rhinman@rcn.com
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 17:21:51 -0400
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NRC/IC Reefers

The various ends and roofs on these cars were covered in my May 2002 Mainline Modeler article; there
were five different ends used over the 12 year production period.

Another nit, Illinois Central leased cars from NRC as far back as 1922 and as part of the lease, the IC agreed to limit the size
of its own refrigerator car fleet. After WW2 when the Despatch steel cars started showing up, the IC lease was changed to be with both companies,
which by that time were co-managed but still separate companies. IC also leased its older wood cars to NRC up until the early 1950s

Roger Hinman
On Sep 4, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


I agree with Richard that the NRC-IC cars all appear to be DESPATCH
built. However, I have a shot of NRC-GM&O 19593 with R+2/4 ends and
this car matches several shots of MDT-IC reefers in the 136xx-137xx
series. I'd like to know more about these MDT 13xxx reefers (which
includes MDT-NYC 133xx) -- in particular, I have no roof shots of
them so I don't know if they have RP, DP, or Despatch roofs.

I also have a late 1950's shot of NRC-GM&O 19208 with flat plate
riveted ends!!

Also, MDT-IC 13662 has the circular fan plate and mechanical drive
to the RIGHT HAND side of the door -- the only time I've ever seen
this. None of the other MDT 13xxx cars has any visible fan stuff,
but the ORER listing indicates they all had Preco or Equipco electric
fans. (Any way to tell a car has electric fans by looking at it?)

The last independent ORER listing I have for NRC is 1959. By 1963
NRC is combined with MDT in the ORER. Anyone know exactly when the
combination of the two took place?

Tim O'Connor

JOhn Golden asked me a question off-list for which others may want to
know the answer:

Why does Intermountain have some of these cars with NRC reporting
marks--I'm sure there's a good explanation.

After World War II, instead of enlarging it's own fleet of steel
reefers to replace its aging 1920s wood reefers, the Illinois Central
began leasing reefers from the Northern Refrigerator Car Co., the
leasing subsidiary of New York Central's Merchants Dispatch
Transportation Co. These cars, operated under NRC reporting marks,
had Illinois Central heralds, diamond heralds at first and later
(after the period covered by the STMFC list) circle i heralds.
However, the Intermountain models are incorrect; the prototype NRC
cars were of MDT design, with roofs, ends, and other details that
were different from those on the cars the IC owned.

Richard Hendrickson






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: NRC/IC Reefers

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

The various ends and roofs on these cars were covered in my May 2002 Mainline Modeler article; there
were five different ends used over the 12 year production period.

Another nit, Illinois Central leased cars from NRC as far back as 1922 and as part of the lease, the IC agreed to limit the size
of its own refrigerator car fleet. After WW2 when the Despatch steel cars started showing up, the IC lease was changed to be with both companies,
which by that time were co-managed but still separate companies. IC also leased its older wood cars to NRC up until the early 1950s

Roger Hinman
On Sep 4, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


I agree with Richard that the NRC-IC cars all appear to be DESPATCH
built. However, I have a shot of NRC-GM&O 19593 with R+2/4 ends and
this car matches several shots of MDT-IC reefers in the 136xx-137xx
series. I'd like to know more about these MDT 13xxx reefers (which
includes MDT-NYC 133xx) -- in particular, I have no roof shots of
them so I don't know if they have RP, DP, or Despatch roofs.

I also have a late 1950's shot of NRC-GM&O 19208 with flat plate
riveted ends!!

Also, MDT-IC 13662 has the circular fan plate and mechanical drive
to the RIGHT HAND side of the door -- the only time I've ever seen
this. None of the other MDT 13xxx cars has any visible fan stuff,
but the ORER listing indicates they all had Preco or Equipco electric
fans. (Any way to tell a car has electric fans by looking at it?)

The last independent ORER listing I have for NRC is 1959. By 1963
NRC is combined with MDT in the ORER. Anyone know exactly when the
combination of the two took place?

Tim O'Connor

JOhn Golden asked me a question off-list for which others may want to
know the answer:

Why does Intermountain have some of these cars with NRC reporting
marks--I'm sure there's a good explanation.

After World War II, instead of enlarging it's own fleet of steel
reefers to replace its aging 1920s wood reefers, the Illinois Central
began leasing reefers from the Northern Refrigerator Car Co., the
leasing subsidiary of New York Central's Merchants Dispatch
Transportation Co. These cars, operated under NRC reporting marks,
had Illinois Central heralds, diamond heralds at first and later
(after the period covered by the STMFC list) circle i heralds.
However, the Intermountain models are incorrect; the prototype NRC
cars were of MDT design, with roofs, ends, and other details that
were different from those on the cars the IC owned.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Color of IC Reefers

George Courtney
 

Thanks, guys,

Lucky me, I have a S scale orange kit that is MDT now that I've looked. And the year I model is 1958.

George Courtney

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The only orange IC reefer photos that I've seen are of MDT
reefers from 1958 onwards. I don't know when the MDT-IC cars
began to be painted orange, but I think MDT began using orange
paint in the 1940's. Other MDT steel reefer users include GM&O,
DL&W, NYC (i.e. reefers with MDT reporting marks with emblems
of those railroads).

Tim O'Connor


George, Irv Athearn committed many sins against prototype modelers
for which, we may hope, has been forgiven now that he has gone to the
great freight yard in the sky, but this wasn't one of them. If the
Illinois Central ever painted their reefers orange, it was long after
the period covered by the STMFC list. The steel reefers delivered in
1937 and 1941-'42 were yellow-green-black when new (and the 1937 cars
at least, had aluminum painted roofs when delivered). Cars repainted
through the 1940s and '50s were essentially the same, though not with
aluminum roofs. There is photographic evidence of this P/L scheme
continuing well into the '60s, though IC did adopt a simpler P/L
scheme in the 1960s with everything on the sides (including hardware
and ladders) yellow and the rest of the car in black.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
 

Tim
Yes they had dimples or depresions in the slope heets, and the comsosite cars
had upside down pans fastened the the composie slope sheets if I read Chuck Y's
drawings rite.  Both the photos in the RMC August 1997 article and I am guessing
that he used the same photos in his book on the Leheigh Valley, same numbers,
are of the side that would not have had the train air line using standard
pratice.  Rich Christe said that his info on the twin hoppers these cars were
rebuilt into had the outside train air line.  I also have a photo of one of
these cars its 3/4 end view but does shown the air line.  They cut the frame
when the cars were rebuilt and could have rerouted it at that time.  I am going
to go with train air line down the center sill.  Well my car will be run on a
modular layout so I will just keep the left side out and the air line cop
shouldn't be albe to see it.
Thanks
Don Ford
Kanab UT




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 12:27:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

 

Didn't these cars require "dimples" on the underside to
clear the wheels/truck-swing? Maybe the train line was run
down the center line of the car to avoid interference?

Tim O'Connor

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Didn't these cars require "dimples" on the underside to
clear the wheels/truck-swing? Maybe the train line was run
down the center line of the car to avoid interference?

Tim O'Connor

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: NRC/IC Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

I agree with Richard that the NRC-IC cars all appear to be DESPATCH
built. However, I have a shot of NRC-GM&O 19593 with R+2/4 ends and
this car matches several shots of MDT-IC reefers in the 136xx-137xx
series. I'd like to know more about these MDT 13xxx reefers (which
includes MDT-NYC 133xx) -- in particular, I have no roof shots of
them so I don't know if they have RP, DP, or Despatch roofs.

I also have a late 1950's shot of NRC-GM&O 19208 with flat plate
riveted ends!!

Also, MDT-IC 13662 has the circular fan plate and mechanical drive
to the RIGHT HAND side of the door -- the only time I've ever seen
this. None of the other MDT 13xxx cars has any visible fan stuff,
but the ORER listing indicates they all had Preco or Equipco electric
fans. (Any way to tell a car has electric fans by looking at it?)

The last independent ORER listing I have for NRC is 1959. By 1963
NRC is combined with MDT in the ORER. Anyone know exactly when the
combination of the two took place?

Tim O'Connor

JOhn Golden asked me a question off-list for which others may want to
know the answer:

Why does Intermountain have some of these cars with NRC reporting
marks--I'm sure there's a good explanation.

After World War II, instead of enlarging it's own fleet of steel
reefers to replace its aging 1920s wood reefers, the Illinois Central
began leasing reefers from the Northern Refrigerator Car Co., the
leasing subsidiary of New York Central's Merchants Dispatch
Transportation Co. These cars, operated under NRC reporting marks,
had Illinois Central heralds, diamond heralds at first and later
(after the period covered by the STMFC list) circle i heralds.
However, the Intermountain models are incorrect; the prototype NRC
cars were of MDT design, with roofs, ends, and other details that
were different from those on the cars the IC owned.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 40 year rule?

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

These rules only apply to the unlimited interchange of such cars.
Exemptions can be granted by mutual agreement and of course, cars
can continue to operate online as long as the owner wants.

Tony is right, the first time for such a rule was in 1970.

Tim O'Connor

For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.

This morning at coffee one of the local modelers said he'd read where one railroad had sold some cars that had reached the 40 year mark to another railroad. He was under the impression that at 40 years cars had to be scrapped!

Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....

Thanks,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Color of IC Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

The only orange IC reefer photos that I've seen are of MDT
reefers from 1958 onwards. I don't know when the MDT-IC cars
began to be painted orange, but I think MDT began using orange
paint in the 1940's. Other MDT steel reefer users include GM&O,
DL&W, NYC (i.e. reefers with MDT reporting marks with emblems
of those railroads).

Tim O'Connor

George, Irv Athearn committed many sins against prototype modelers
for which, we may hope, has been forgiven now that he has gone to the
great freight yard in the sky, but this wasn't one of them. If the
Illinois Central ever painted their reefers orange, it was long after
the period covered by the STMFC list. The steel reefers delivered in
1937 and 1941-'42 were yellow-green-black when new (and the 1937 cars
at least, had aluminum painted roofs when delivered). Cars repainted
through the 1940s and '50s were essentially the same, though not with
aluminum roofs. There is photographic evidence of this P/L scheme
continuing well into the '60s, though IC did adopt a simpler P/L
scheme in the 1960s with everything on the sides (including hardware
and ladders) yellow and the rest of the car in black.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain IC Refrigerator Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

Tim, as far as I can determine, the IC cars never got electric fans.
The cars built in 1937 had Preco mechanical fans installed in 1940,
and the cars built in 1941-'42 had Preco fans when built.
Ah, ok, I wasn't making an electrical/mechanical fan
distinction -- I don't know enough about the fans to do
that. Good to know they were installed in 1940 -- so the
fan-less cars only ran 1937-1940?

They also had National B-1 trucks when delivered.
Who is "they" in this case? Oh, I see...

Trucks on the 1937 cars were ASF double truss spring plankless on
50000-50099, Barber Stabilzed S-2 on 50100-50199, and National B-1
on 50200-50299. Hand brakes were Ajax and running boards were wood.
Thanks for that information! Fills a hole in my notes.

The 1941-'42 cars were essentially the same, but they had W-corner-post
ends with rounded corners. Hand brakes were Superior. This information
comes from the 3-54 IC freight car diagram book. Note that IC 50379
still had mechanical fans when photographed in the '60s.
Again, thanks!

Tim O'Connor


Re: 40 year rule?

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Tony--

Sligtly OT, but I see many of today's Norfolk Southern cars with stencils reading that the over 40-year-old car that I'm looking at is still in interchange service under an exemption.

Back OT--were there similar exemptions to the 50-year rule in the era of our STMFC group?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Clark Propst wrote:
For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had
a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable
on this list.
Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight
cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....
In the era of this list, Clark, there was no such rule AFAIK.
Today there is.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 40 year rule?

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

This rule did not come into effect until the late 1960's or early 1970's.

KL
1307E0904

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark and Eileen

For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.

This morning at coffee one of the local modelers said he'd read where one railroad had sold some cars that had reached the 40 year mark to another railroad. He was under the impression that at 40 years cars had to be scrapped!

Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....


Re: was 40 year rule? When retro with RB trucks?

water.kresse@...
 

When did the railroads have to replace older trucks with roller-bearing journaled trucks to keep older cars in inter-change service.  I'm looking at 1942-1946 built 70-ton covered hopper cars that stayed in revenue service until 1988-89.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 12:38:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 40 year rule?

Clark Propst wrote:
For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had  
a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable  
on this list.
Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight  
cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....
     In the era of this list, Clark, there was no such rule AFAIK.  
Today there is.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 40 year rule?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.
Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....
In the era of this list, Clark, there was no such rule AFAIK. Today there is.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NRC/IC Reefers

Clark Propst
 

I believe Stan Rydarowicz's* roofs and ends, two styles, for the orange NYC built cars.

Clark Propst

*Rydarowicz's - say that three times fast : )


40 year rule?

Clark Propst
 

For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.

This morning at coffee one of the local modelers said he'd read where one railroad had sold some cars that had reached the 40 year mark to another railroad. He was under the impression that at 40 years cars had to be scrapped!

Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....

Thanks,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


NRC/IC Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

JOhn Golden asked me a question off-list for which others may want to
know the answer:

Why does Intermountain have some of these cars with NRC reporting
marks--I'm sure there's a good explanation.

After World War II, instead of enlarging it's own fleet of steel
reefers to replace its aging 1920s wood reefers, the Illinois Central
began leasing reefers from the Northern Refrigerator Car Co., the
leasing subsidiary of New York Central's Merchants Dispatch
Transportation Co. These cars, operated under NRC reporting marks,
had Illinois Central heralds, diamond heralds at first and later
(after the period covered by the STMFC list) circle i heralds.
However, the Intermountain models are incorrect; the prototype NRC
cars were of MDT design, with roofs, ends, and other details that
were different from those on the cars the IC owned.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Color of IC Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 4, 2010, at 7:29 AM, gsc3 wrote:

As a lurker and occassional visitor to this site, I must say I'm
a bit confused. I thought someone wrote a long time ago that IC
reefers were orange and that the yellow-green-black scheme was an
invention of Irv Athearn. Period difference or model difference
for the orange and yellow cars?

Thanks,
George Courtney
George, Irv Athearn committed many sins against prototype modelers
for which, we may hope, has been forgiven now that he has gone to the
great freight yard in the sky, but this wasn't one of them. If the
Illinois Central ever painted their reefers orange, it was long after
the period covered by the STMFC list. The steel reefers delivered in
1937 and 1941-'42 were yellow-green-black when new (and the 1937 cars
at least, had aluminum painted roofs when delivered). Cars repainted
through the 1940s and '50s were essentially the same, though not with
aluminum roofs. There is photographic evidence of this P/L scheme
continuing well into the '60s, though IC did adopt a simpler P/L
scheme in the 1960s with everything on the sides (including hardware
and ladders) yellow and the rest of the car in black.

Richard Hendrickson


Color of IC Reefers

George Courtney
 

As a lurker and occassional visitor to this site, I must say I'm a bit confused. I thought someone wrote a long time ago that IC reefers were orange and that the yellow-green-black scheme was an invention of Irv Athearn. Period difference or model difference for the orange and yellow cars?

Thanks,
George Courtney

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