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Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Eric Hansmann
 

I have a 1927 WM fleet inventory file that Larry Kline compiled over 20 years ago. This specific car number (20165) is not among the inventory but it appears in the 1943 ORER in the 165000-21199 car series. Larry’s inventory noted the 165000-17699 hoppers were built in the Company Shops in December 1927, and notes 4629 cars listed in the January 1943 ORER.

 

USRA control of the WM was not kind to their hopper fleet. The USRA used loaded cars to warehouse coal until there was a need. Water added to coal results in an acid that plays havoc with sheet steel. When USRA control was relinquished in March 1920, much of the WM coal hopper fleet needed major repair.

 

Larry worked with Bill Oertly to compile historic data on the WM freight car fleet. They found the company embarked on a major hopper rebuilding program that started in late 1927. The WM bought 500 new hoppers (15000-15499) from Bethlehem Steel in February 1927, which are the original channel side stake hoppers with end sills similar to the USRA hopper design. The rebuilding program copied elements of these new cars. Many of the oldest WM hoppers were retired. Just before WW1, the company installed 2817 cars from Pullman in May 1916, and another 1926 hoppers from Pullman in January 1917. These cars were the rebuilding targets. Attached is one of the Pullman built WM hoppers in the Pittsburgh P&LE yards, circa 1926. Note the heavy end sill and T-Section Bettendorf trucks similar to the components on WM 20165 shared in the original link.

https://wvhistoryonview.org/image/001988.jpg

 

I noticed a 1926 build date stencil on WM 20165. Larry and I had several discussions about the WM fleet before he passed away. In one of those conversations he mentioned the hopper rebuilding program probably started before 1927. I was modeling the WM in a November 1926 setting back then, so I had a major interest in properly modeling the hopper fleet. WM 20165 may have been one of the early rebuilds.

 

Additionally, it seems some rebuilt cars received an updated built date stencil during this period. I’ve seen images of a few B&O freight cars rebuilt in the Teens at the Ralston Steel Car Company. The cars received steel center sills and updated hardware to comply with the 1911 amendment to the Safety Appliances Act. They have updated built date stencils from that work, not the original built dates from 10-12 years previous.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Match and Strawboard Making

Thomas Klosterman
 

Yes, indeed, Barberton was New Portage early on. The location of the central part of each was not the quite same, but geographically close. The center of Barberton is a little south of New Portage, both on the Ohio Canal.

Are the early (or any of) these  companies related to the paper box company in Rittman, Ohio? This is west of Barberton on the old Erie.  I think it had the name of Ohio Straw Board for a while.


Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

akerboomk
 

Is this the series of cars that ended up on the B&M as the B&M 7200 series (new to B&M in 1962)?

 

            https://www.bmrrhs.org/hopper_7200_series/

 

Ken

 


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Fred Jansz
 

Hey Garth!
Same overhere, first thing I noticed.
WP 17039.... 'We were all over the Place' !

Great shot! I like all those gondolas with pipe- and other loads.
Building a PRR Turtleback right now!

cheers
Fred Jansz


Re: B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

I was pleased to notice a WP 16001-series double-sheathed boxcar in this photo. It is over on the right in the string punctuated by the Phillips tank car. You can spot it by the herald on the door.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 10:33 PM Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:

Friends,

That is an B&O M-15H and I have attached the photo I presume was in the link that I cannot get to work. The roof is not documented, but the end, as mentioned, was a Tatum XLT end with differences from the Indestructible End.  Tatum was the Chief Engineer for the B&O and patented his ideas and the B&O used them. You are probably are all familiar with his brake slack adjuster that appears on the side of B&O M-53 boxcars (and others) as a steel plate with a ratcheting mechanism. 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

That is an B&O M-15H and I have attached the photo I presume was in the link that I cannot get to work. The roof is not documented, but the end, as mentioned, was a Tatum XLT end with differences from the Indestructible End.  Tatum was the Chief Engineer for the B&O and patented his ideas and the B&O used them. You are probably are all familiar with his brake slack adjuster that appears on the side of B&O M-53 boxcars (and others) as a steel plate with a ratcheting mechanism. 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

David
 

Western Maryland did have a large batch of Gla copies, but this particular car was a taller rebuild with some differences in the ends.

David Thompson


Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Eric and List Members,
 
I forgot to mention, to me these cars look a whole lot like PRR class GLa hoppers in all respects EXCEPT the channel sides.
 
That of course means there is a kitbashing opportunity for those interested!
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Hi Eric and List Members,
 
RMC Jan 1999 pg58-61 has an article that provides details on the rebuilding - apparently the rebuilting process went on from 1927-1932.
 
Claus Schlund
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load



On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:46 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
1935 or later.

     Nice shot of the classic channel-rib design.

Tony Thompson


The 7-1935 weigh date is about when the WM adopted the circular emblem. They would add Fast Freight Line to the center of the emblem in a few years. 

IIRC, the hopper is a rebuild of a batch of Pullman built cars originally built in 1916-1917. They were delivered with hat section side stakes. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Eric and List Members,
 
RMC Jan 1999 pg58-61 has an article that provides details on the rebuilding - apparently the rebuilting process went on from 1927-1932.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load



On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:46 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
1935 or later.

     Nice shot of the classic channel-rib design.

Tony Thompson


The 7-1935 weigh date is about when the WM adopted the circular emblem. They would add Fast Freight Line to the center of the emblem in a few years. 

IIRC, the hopper is a rebuild of a batch of Pullman built cars originally built in 1916-1917. They were delivered with hat section side stakes. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Photo: Ohio River Railroad Boxcar 2701

Tim O'Connor
 


6-27-98 to be specific ! :-)


On 7/12/2020 7:49 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Ohio River Railroad Boxcar 2701
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
Built by Ensign Manufacturing Company of Huntington, W. Va.

  Nice Builder photo! The weigh date appears to be 1898.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Eric Hansmann
 



On Jul 12, 2020, at 6:46 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
1935 or later.

     Nice shot of the classic channel-rib design.

Tony Thompson


The 7-1935 weigh date is about when the WM adopted the circular emblem. They would add Fast Freight Line to the center of the emblem in a few years. 

IIRC, the hopper is a rebuild of a batch of Pullman built cars originally built in 1916-1917. They were delivered with hat section side stakes. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Photo: Ohio River Railroad Boxcar 2701

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Ohio River Railroad Boxcar 2701
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
Built by Ensign Manufacturing Company of Huntington, W. Va.

  Nice Builder photo! The weigh date appears to be 1898.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
1935 or later.

     Nice shot of the classic channel-rib design.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: ATSF Gondola 75473 Looking A Little Tired

 


Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Ten of the HPT&D cars went to West India Fruit. they were built with Duryea underframes. By about the mid-fifties—maybe later—the remaining HPT&D cars received Silver and Maroon or Purple and Silver. Not in what order or could have been at the same time. Sunshine offered kit for both HPT&D and WIF.

Bill Welch


Match and Strawboard Making

Matt Goodman
 
Edited

Mr. Barber also has a connection with another relatively “behind the scenes” industry - strawboard production (one of my areas of interest). Mr. Barber’s formed the Portage Strawboard in 1882 - not too long after Diamond Match was formed. He merged Portage with American Strawboard by 1889, which he continued to operate until his death in 1920. American Strawboard later became Mid-West Box Company, then finally (for the purposes of this list, anyway) the Container Corporation of America.
 
According to my notes, Diamond Match consumed a good deal of the strawboard produced in New Portage, Ohio (later Barberton). Most of the product created in strawboard mills was used for packaging - so perhaps match boxes, in this case.
 
Several early American Strawboard cars were rebuilt by Ralston Steel Car Company in Columbus, Ohio. See a few images here. (thanks to Columbus Railroads web guy for curating these, and to Eric Hansmann for the reminder).
 
By the way, thanks for stating Mr. Barber’s full name, Thomas. The references I have were limited to “C. Barber”. When I read his name in your post (Ohio Columbus Barber), I was fairly sure there had been some copy and paste error - I just could not figure out that sentence (confused all the more by the fact that I live in Columbus, Ohio)! Thanks to Wikipedia for the “ah-ha” moment.
 
Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US
Modeling Circleville, Ohio (home of the second Portage Mill) in 1938

On Jul 11, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Thomas Klosterman <tom.klosterman@...> wrote:
Eventually (early 20th century) most of the matches in the US were manufactured in Barberton, Ohio [Diamond Match and others served by the A&BBRR (the "Belt Line") from interchange with the PRR] and Wadsworth, Ohio (nearby and served by the Erie). Many men in Barberton worked at the match factories. My father, as a youth, worked as a "block feeder," feeding blocks of (probably) these or similar blocks made from trees like this into a machine that produced matchsticks. My Grandfather worked in the dipping tank area. The Blue Tip Match was made in Wadsworth with the same equipment until the 1980's. The town still celebrates the Blue Tip Festival. 
Diamond match was started and owned by Ohio Columbus Barber (who planned and started the town), hence "Barberton." He also started the Belt Line (and many other manufacturers in town) and eventually sold it to a combination of PRR. B&O, Erie and maybe the AC&Y.  Interesting history here.


Photo: ATSF Gondola 75473 Looking A Little Tired

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: ATSF Gondola 75473 Looking A Little Tired

An undated photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc612705/?q=railroad

As some of you may know, the numbering structure for Santa Fe gondolas was less than orderly. As near as I can tell this is a Class Ga-87 gondola and was built in 1954. The car was fifty-three feet long.

A model of this car probably would make a good track cleaner.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Eric,

Thanks.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Sunday, July 12, 2020, 03:10:29 PM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Here’s an image from the Steam Era Freight Cars website. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 12, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Don Burn <burn@...> wrote:

There is a picture in Speedwich's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume One: Box and Automobile Cars".

Don Burn


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s an image from the Steam Era Freight Cars website. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 12, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Don Burn <burn@...> wrote:

There is a picture in Speedwich's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume One: Box and Automobile Cars".

Don Burn


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Don Burn
 

There is a picture in Speedwich's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume One: Box and Automobile Cars".

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Huber via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 3:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Any pictures of those HPT&D cars?
oldline1

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