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Re: Scalecoat I over Floquil over styrene

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

So often we are like a lone ship at sea pressing on without a compass, happy as clams, but not realizing that we are headed in a distinctly wrong direction! As always, it is always reassuring to again hear common sense from so many respected modelers, and that the course one has chosen is still correct!

The advice to await complete drying of the base paint coat (no smell!) before applying a paint of different formulation is about as good as one can get in avoiding big time problems. The advice to apply only thin coats is only very slightly far behind.

Several people off list have commented on the need for "primer". Long recognizing the fact that "primer", either Floquil or the late lamented Accupaint, is really only flat gray paint, I continue to use them to provide me with a uniform pretty neutral shadowless flat color without any contrast or reflection. In so many ways, this simple action visually "ties" together for the first time a model that heretofore has only been seen as a bundle of disparate, if attached parts. By completely eliminating contrast and reflection, this also gives the model builder a last chance to detect and correct surface and other flaws that had been otherwise lost in the clutter.

Of interest for aficionados of Scalecoat I history , I note that some of my jars of paint - obviously of some vintage- specifically announce that they "contain Toluol, Xylol, and Lead"! Other jars say that they "contain no Lead"! No wonder Scalecoat has had such vibrant colors for so many years, and it is even more of a wonder that in more recent years they have been able to maintain the colors without the lead.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento
Re: UP freight car lettering color dates/repaint intervals.

Aley, Jeff A
 

Denny,

Does your question pertain to box cars or stock cars?

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denny Anspach
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:41 AM
To: Steam Era Freight Car List
Subject: [STMFC] UP freight car lettering color dates/repaint intervals.



I understand that the standard UP freight car lettering changed from
white to yellow after 1948. I would presume that any given car would
not have been so repainted after 1947 until the regular time arrived
for routine repainting would have arrived, which could be a date
considerably later than 1948. I do not know what the UP's usual
chosen interval might have been for such boxcar repaints, but again
(presuming, of course!) if a whole class of cars were last painted/
rebuilt in 1938, then they might last well into the 1950's, even to
retirement, white lettering and all still intact?

It is difficult for me to discern dirty white from yellow on B&W photos.

Denny
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento
Re: Info needed, Moore refrigerator

John <jriddell@...>
 

Dennis,

I have emailed you a scan of the Moore System advertisement from the 1916 CYC.

John Riddell

Is there any chance we could obtain a scan of the ad? There may be space to include it in the book, and there should be no copyright issues, considering its age.


Dennis
Re: Hart Selective 70 Ton Ballast Cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

I would appreciate one Richard.

----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/stevesandifer2000/index
Church: http://www.swcentral.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Hart Selective 70 Ton Ballast Cars



Last month, I agreed to scan a bunch of detail photos I have of these
cars. Now that I finally have time to do so, I find I have
inadvertently trashed the e-mail message from the list member who
wanted them. Since there are a number of them, I'll put them on a
CD. Please send me your s-mail address so I can mail them to you.

Richard Hendrickson
Tom Olsen

Joseph Lofland
 

Tom,

Would you please contact me off list..............

Joe Lofland
Re: UP freight car lettering color dates/repaint intervals.

Tim O'Connor
 

Anecdotally speaking, some cars built in 1940 were repainted for
the first time in the mid to late 1950's, and there are published
photos of UP box cars with white & yellow lettering in the mid 50's
if not later. Needless to say many were never repainted again after
they got their Be Specific paint...

Tim O'Connor

Hi Denny,

Actually, Terry Metcalfe's book, "Union Pacific Freight Cars, 1936-51," gives the date of the change from white lettering with yellow slogans to all yellow as the beginning of July 1947. He quotes various dates from correspondence and drawings, but they mostly cluster around that time. As far as I can recall, however, he doesn't say anything about the interval at which cars were repainted.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142
Re: Info needed, Moore refrigerator

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Dennis S. (no longer signing his name) wrote:
As I understand this so far, the Bohn patent covered a hatch cover
that allowed the hatch plug to be left open while still baring
access to the ice bunker, while the Moore device is a permanently
installed heater.
The important Bohn patent, created by John Ames (No. 625309)
and sold to Bohn, was a "syphon" system of curved metal strips in the
bulkhead between the ice tanks and the car interior, supposedly to
assist air convection. There were also Bohn-patent details in the
collapsible bulkheads used in some cars. The hatch cover, to me, is
NOT the important Bohn device. I discussed this, and provided
literature citations, in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
How'd I miss signing my name?

Thanks Tony. I wasn't aware of the internal workings of the Bohn device. Apparantly, there were some details to improve circulation in the Moore system, so they DO overlap in function.

Dennis E. Storzek the first, king of... (Oh wait, that's Garfield Goose :-)
Hart Selective 70 Ton Ballast Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Last month, I agreed to scan a bunch of detail photos I have of these
cars. Now that I finally have time to do so, I find I have
inadvertently trashed the e-mail message from the list member who
wanted them. Since there are a number of them, I'll put them on a
CD. Please send me your s-mail address so I can mail them to you.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: UP freight car lettering color dates/repaint intervals.

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Denny,

Actually, Terry Metcalfe's book, "Union Pacific Freight Cars, 1936-51," gives the date of the change from white lettering with yellow slogans to all yellow as the beginning of July 1947. He quotes various dates from correspondence and drawings, but they mostly cluster around that time. As far as I can recall, however, he doesn't say anything about the interval at which cars were repainted.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142
Re: Info needed, Moore refrigerator

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis S. (no longer signing his name) wrote:
As I understand this so far, the Bohn patent covered a hatch cover that allowed the hatch plug to be left open while still baring access to the ice bunker, while the Moore device is a permanently installed heater.
The important Bohn patent, created by John Ames (No. 625309) and sold to Bohn, was a "syphon" system of curved metal strips in the bulkhead between the ice tanks and the car interior, supposedly to assist air convection. There were also Bohn-patent details in the collapsible bulkheads used in some cars. The hatch cover, to me, is NOT the important Bohn device. I discussed this, and provided literature citations, in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
UP freight car lettering color dates/repaint intervals.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I understand that the standard UP freight car lettering changed from white to yellow after 1948. I would presume that any given car would not have been so repainted after 1947 until the regular time arrived for routine repainting would have arrived, which could be a date considerably later than 1948. I do not know what the UP's usual chosen interval might have been for such boxcar repaints, but again (presuming, of course!) if a whole class of cars were last painted/ rebuilt in 1938, then they might last well into the 1950's, even to retirement, white lettering and all still intact?

It is difficult for me to discern dirty white from yellow on B&W photos.

Denny
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento
Re: Info needed, Moore refrigerator

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger <durrecj@...> wrote:

The D&IR and DM&N converted most of their reefers to the Moore system in the teens, then converted a few remaining to the Bohn system in the late 1930's.  I have some information on them if you are interested.  It seems that most of the Moore reefers were for companies in the midwest.
 
Cyril Durrenberger
Cyril,

Your statement makes it sound like the two systems are mutually exclusive,or at least equivalent. The photo shows the Soo cars to have the Moore heater and Bohn ventilators concurrently. Indeed, I just checked the stencil drawing and it calls for the "Bohn Patent" lettering over the door, so the distinctive hatch covers are not a Moore built imitation. As I understand this so far, the Bohn patent covered a hatch cover that allowed the hatch plug to be left open while still baring access to the ice bunker, while the Moore device is a permanently installed heater.

Why a heater in a refrigerator car? Both roads operated where deep sub-zero temperatures were common during the winter. Most produce that requires refrigeration during the summer does not do well if frozen. The Soo shipped a lot of potatoes out of its territory, and potatoes are a crop that are likely to ship during the winter. Potatoes spoil quickly once frozen.

If you have material on the Moore system that you can scan, I'd like to see it. You can attach it to an e-mail to destorzek@mchsi dot com, or e-mail me for a snail mail address.

Thanks
Re: Keyser Car Shops is open for business

SUVCWORR@...
 

Mike,

When are the N-17 going to be available?

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: mikesusancather <mikecather@mac.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 2, 2009 9:49 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Keyser Car Shops is open for business


Group: Hello, I'm Mike Cather, age 61, new to the list and a big B&O fan as my
late father worked a full career for the B&O in Baltimore.

I'm one of Jim's partners in Keyser Car Shops. My role is to pack and ship our
models to the buyers. We've sold a bunch of these but still have 9 unique road
numbers in stock. For those who buy 8 cars, we throw the 9th car in for free.

Jim has spent a lot of time making sure these cars are highly accurate to the
prototype and we think folks will love them.

Visit us at: http://keysercarshops.com/index.html

Thank you.

s/Mike Cather
Colorado Springs

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> wrote:



Suggested retail price is $35 for RTR, $30 for kits.

This is a bit steep, but the market is on the way to $50 boxcars within two
years and this will look cheap then. Having grown up on $1.98 blue box
Athearns, this is dizzying to me. The cost structure and exchange rates permit
nothing less for going concerns.

Again, these B&O M-26b Time-Saver slogan red boxcars are available from:

- B&OHS (several exclusive numbers, RTR, kits sold out already), web site
www.borhs.org, click on Company Store

- Keyser Car Shops (eight road numbers, RTR), web site www.keysercarshops.com,
Paypal and credit cards accepted

- Panther Hollow Press (eight road numbers, kits only), no web site, front
porch with easy chair


The brisker the business for these boxcars, the sooner we'll have more custom
B&O lettered cars in the future.





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Richard White" <rhwhite@> wrote:

Dear Jim,
Sounds great.
Emmachisit? = How much does it cost?
Thank you and best wishes
Richard White






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: GM&O color recommendation

Ed Hawkins
 

On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Bob McCarthy wrote:

Anyone have a comment on colors to use if you prefer FLOQUIL paint?
Bob,
The ACF paint sample for GM&O 8000-8099 built in 1940 closely matches a
Floquil mix equal parts of Oxide Red 186 and Southern Freight Car Brown
175 (sides only). At least this formula matched 20 years ago. Black
ends, roof, underbody, and trucks.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Re: GM&O color recommendation

Bob McCarthy
 

Guys,
 
    You talk about timely discussion.  Just had custom GM&O decals made for the 1947 ACF version of the 1937 ARA boxcar.  Have been converting an AMERICAN MODELS 1937 ARA boxcar to P-64 standards and have been scratching my head on the paint color.
 
    Anyone have a comment on colors to use if you prefer FLOQUIL paint?
 
Thanks,
 
Bob McCarthy
 
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

--- On Tue, 12/1/09, jerryglow@comcast.net <jerryglow@comcast.net> wrote:


From: jerryglow@comcast.net <jerryglow@comcast.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GM&O color recommendation
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 5:14 PM


 



Thanks. Ed also replied off list that Scalecoat #11 is a good match.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Jerry, The only info I can find deals with Accu-Paint. This was in the chart in Ed Hawkins RPC #3.
 
Postwar Red Oxide 1 part #12 Oxide Brown + 1 part #54 Rich Oxide Brown
1940's Red Brown            #12 Oxide Brown
 
#12 long discontinued and of course Accu-Paint is out of business. Tru-Color has some Oxide Browns. I too wish that Modelflex would add the Oxide shades along with Mineral Brown & Red.
 
Rich
--- On Sat, 11/28/09, jerryglow@.. . <jerryglow@. ..> wrote:


From: jerryglow@.. . <jerryglow@. ..>

......... What's a good color recommendation for GM&O for this era into the '50s?

Jerry Glow










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Keyser Car Shops is open for business

MikeCather
 

Group: Hello, I'm Mike Cather, age 61, new to the list and a big B&O fan as my late father worked a full career for the B&O in Baltimore.

I'm one of Jim's partners in Keyser Car Shops. My role is to pack and ship our models to the buyers. We've sold a bunch of these but still have 9 unique road numbers in stock. For those who buy 8 cars, we throw the 9th car in for free.

Jim has spent a lot of time making sure these cars are highly accurate to the prototype and we think folks will love them.

Visit us at: http://keysercarshops.com/index.html

Thank you.

s/Mike Cather
Colorado Springs

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> wrote:



Suggested retail price is $35 for RTR, $30 for kits.

This is a bit steep, but the market is on the way to $50 boxcars within two years and this will look cheap then. Having grown up on $1.98 blue box Athearns, this is dizzying to me. The cost structure and exchange rates permit nothing less for going concerns.

Again, these B&O M-26b Time-Saver slogan red boxcars are available from:

- B&OHS (several exclusive numbers, RTR, kits sold out already), web site www.borhs.org, click on Company Store

- Keyser Car Shops (eight road numbers, RTR), web site www.keysercarshops.com, Paypal and credit cards accepted

- Panther Hollow Press (eight road numbers, kits only), no web site, front porch with easy chair


The brisker the business for these boxcars, the sooner we'll have more custom B&O lettered cars in the future.





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Richard White" <rhwhite@> wrote:

Dear Jim,
Sounds great.
Emmachisit? = How much does it cost?
Thank you and best wishes
Richard White


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Scalecoat I over Floquil over styrene.

Charles Morrill
 

Hydrocal works great in rubber molds. I've made many RTV molds including O scale freight car parts that were cast in Hydrocal with very good results.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Francis A. Pehowic, Jr." <rdgbuff56@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scalecoat I over Floquil over styrene.


I have used Scalecoat 1 over Floquil many times. I've mixed Scalecoat 2 thinner with Testors' Dullcote and Glosscote which are lacquer based. Never a problem.

I'll throw a quick question in here. I bought a rubber mold for coal loads. Will Hydrocal work? If not, does any one have another kind of plaster that will/

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.









------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Info needed, Moore refrigerator

Cyril Durrenberger
 

The D&IR and DM&N converted most of their reefers to the Moore system in the teens, then converted a few remaining to the Bohn system in the late 1930's.  I have some information on them if you are interested.  It seems that most of the Moore reefers were for companies in the midwest.
 
Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Wed, 12/2/09, John Riddell <jriddell@interlog.com> wrote:


From: John Riddell <jriddell@interlog.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Info needed, Moore refrigerator
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 7:53 AM


 



Dennis,

There is an informative half-page ad on page 1066 of the 1916 CYC for the
"Refrigerator Heater & Ventilator Car Co." of St. Paul, Minnesota.

"Moore System -- Refrigerator - Heater - Ventilator"

A diagram shows the system.
It includes a hard coal-fired heater underslung which "keeps load free from
frost at 40 below zero for 15 cents a day."
Fresh air intake at bottom of the underslung heater. Heater is operated from
outside the car.
Internal air is also circulated through the heater.
There is a roof stack directly above the heater to release gas and smoke.

John Riddell



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Scalecoat I over Floquil over styrene.

rdgbuff56
 

I have used Scalecoat 1 over Floquil many times. I've mixed Scalecoat 2 thinner with Testors' Dullcote and Glosscote which are lacquer based. Never a problem.

I'll throw a quick question in here. I bought a rubber mold for coal loads. Will Hydrocal work? If not, does any one have another kind of plaster that will/

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.
Re: Scalecoat I over Floquil over styrene.

Bill Darnaby
 

Hi Doc,

I have used Scalecoat I directly over styrene for years with no issues. Use the recommending dilution for spraying and apply lightly.

See you in Cocoa,
Bill Darnaby
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