Bieber 1947 4th quarter *03 cars
Allen Rueter
Cars through Bieber 1947 4th Quarter, numbers ending 03 - 258 cars
GN 45 PFE 22 ATSF 20 PRR 13 SP 11 UP 10 NYC 10 DRGW 9 WP 8 CBQ 8 WFE 6 NP 5 LN 5 SFRD, Milw MDT GWEX BO 4 Wab UCR TP RDG CO CNW 3 AOX CG DRS IC NKP NRC PM SCCX SLSF SOU URT 2 strays: ART AWP BRE CIL CN CRR DLW DTI ERIE GMO GTW IGN MKT MP NCSTL NW PMCKY SAL SOO SSW UTLX Allen Rueter
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars
Schuyler Larrabee
On Nov 21, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:Yes, Richard, wrong on the date, but right on the reason, concept, and methodology (re-initializingI could be wrong, but it seems to me that CRP was set up around '52Well, Schuyler, in fact you ARE wrong, at least partly. CRP was the equipment). It all happened a few years earlier than I had in mind. Thanks for setting the dates. SGL E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508) Database version: 6.13750 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars
Richard Hendrickson
On Nov 21, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that CRP was set up around '52Well, Schuyler, in fact you ARE wrong, at least partly. CRP was established in 1944 as a separate operating branch of the Central RR of New Jersey, and remained so until ca. 1954, when the courts ruled that it was an illicit tax dodge. After 1954, the cars with CRP reporting marks were gradually re-integrated into the CNJ roster, though there cars running around lettered CRP through the 1950s and into the 1960s. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?)
Tony, your 84/16 is roughly a 5:1 ratio. There must be some
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amount of double counting since GN/SP interchanged some amount of traffic at Klamath Falls, although it's probably not a lot. The region had a significant amount of online traffic (timber and lumber mostly) so even if the WP/GN interchanged 275 cars daily at Bieber, a fair amount of that would not be overhead traffic but would originate either on the WP or OT (GN) or be interchange for the SP at K-Falls. At the same time, not all of SP's Cascade traffic went through Redding, but was diverted via the Modoc line between K-Falls and Nevada. So the bottom line, even if SP handled 10x the traffic over its various routes compared to the GN+WP operations, it's not simply a matter of counting cars at one location. Tim O'Connor
At 11/21/2009 06:33 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Al Daumann wrote:Finally, any idea what a comparable number of cars going on the SPRedding has the complication that although SP moved most
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars
MOFWCABOOSE@...
Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania: August 1946 to December 1952, according to Edson.
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John C. La Rue, Jr. Bonita Springs, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 7:49 pm Subject: RE: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars I don't know what RDY is, but CRP is Central of Pennsylvania, which was aI could be wrong, but it seems to me that CRP was set up around '52 in an effort to put some assets of the CNJ out of the reach (well, that was the idea) of NJ tax authorities. A lot of rolling stock was re-initialed with CRP with few if any other changes. I think that later this was determined to be not legal. Somebody on this list KNOWS the answer, I'm sure. SGL E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508) Database version: 6.13750 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Molded-on Grab Irons (was: Heap Shields)
StephenK
Assuming the ends of the cutters are flat, this is the item...
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SKay
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?)
Allen Rueter
Doesn't seem so high to me when you look at it as 135+ north and 135+ south, come close to possibly match
the time-tables. Also the GN passed traffic to the SP at K Falls, that came out of Spokane & Montana. -- Allen Rueter StLouis MO ________________________________ From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 6:17:13 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?) Al Daumann wrote: Thanks for the info. So if I'm reading you right and assumingThat high an amount seems impossible, but I'm quoting a traffic study from 1951. Even the 275/day at Bieber sounds high to me. I'd believe 1500 or so cars daily at Redding, counting both directions. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Molded-on Grab Irons and grab iron bending device
Allen Cain <allencain@...>
Folks,
The Mission Model bending jig looks really nice but $90 puts it out of may range for a specialty tool. Sometime back one of the magazines ran an article where a piece of sheet plastic with manufactured scribed slots (siding?) was cut in a triangular shape with the slots running parallel to the base of the triangle. Then, you pick the slot that matches the width that you need and lay a piece of wire in it and simply bend it over the edges of the plastic. Bingo, a grab iron. The taller the triangle combined with a narrow base gives you a LOT of slots which vary in length only slightly as you go from one slot to the next. I built one of these for a zero cost using scraps from the plastic box and it works great. Hopefully my description makes sense. Allen Cain
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars
Frank Valoczy <destron@...>
Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that CRP was set up around '52 in an1944 to 1952, according to Wikipedia. (with the usual Wikipedia caveat). Frank Valoczy Vancouver, BC
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For Sale: HO scale rolling stock
Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
I have some steam era along with more modern era rolling stock currently
listed on eBay http://stores.ebay.com/Espee-F-5 As always, thanks for looking! Rob Sarberenyi
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars
Schuyler Larrabee
I don't know what RDY is, but CRP is Central of Pennsylvania, which was aI could be wrong, but it seems to me that CRP was set up around '52 in an effort to put some assets of the CNJ out of the reach (well, that was the idea) of NJ tax authorities. A lot of rolling stock was re-initialed with CRP with few if any other changes. I think that later this was determined to be not legal. Somebody on this list KNOWS the answer, I'm sure. SGL E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508) Database version: 6.13750 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars
The tax dodge was incorporated into the plot of a Paul Newman
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movie, The Young Philadelphians, where he saves a client big bucks by shuffling some business from NJ to PA taxes. Tim O'Connor
At 11/21/2009 04:53 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Frank Valoczy wrote:I don't know what RDY is, but CRP is Central of Pennsylvania, which was aProbably means nothing in terms of Frank's abolishment/divestiture, but I photographed a CRP 70-ton flatcar at Colfax, CA, waiting in an eastbound freight in January 1959. The load was one beautiful sailboat, and one disheveled transient who probably had a very cold ride up from Roseville.
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?)
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Al Daumann wrote:
Thanks for the info. So if I'm reading you right and assuming Tim's data (about 25000 cars per 3 months or about 275 cars / day through Bieber), then the total SP traffic would be about 10 times that going through Bieber, or about 2750 cars per day at, say Redding?That high an amount seems impossible, but I'm quoting a traffic study from 1951. Even the 275/day at Bieber sounds high to me. I'd believe 1500 or so cars daily at Redding, counting both directions. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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LONG MICRO DRILLS
WILLIAM PARDIE
DOES ANYONE HAVE AN ALTERNATE SOURCE OTHER THAN MODEL EXPO FOR THETHANKS IN ADVANCE: BILL PARDIE
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?)
acacd_ssp
Tony,
Thanks for the info. So if I'm reading you right and assuming Tim's data (about 25000 cars per 3 months or about 275 cars / day through Bieber), then the total SP traffic would be about 10 times that going through Bieber, or about 2750 cars per day at, say Redding? Al Daumann ________________________________ From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 3:33:01 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?) Al Daumann wrote: Finally, any idea what a comparable number of cars going on the SPRedding has the complication that although SP moved most traffic on the Cascade Line, diverging at Black Butte, it did continue in 1947 to move a fair proportion (maybe a fourth) via the Siskiyou Line. But I do know that the traffic into Klamath Falls (Cascade Line) was 84% SP, 16% GN. Thus the likely proportion of GN-WP traffic over the Cascades vs. SP (both routes) was below 10%. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?)
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Al Daumann wrote:
Finally, any idea what a comparable number of cars going on the SP through Redding would be?Redding has the complication that although SP moved most traffic on the Cascade Line, diverging at Black Butte, it did continue in 1947 to move a fair proportion (maybe a fourth) via the Siskiyou Line. But I do know that the traffic into Klamath Falls (Cascade Line) was 84% SP, 16% GN. Thus the likely proportion of GN-WP traffic over the Cascades vs. SP (both routes) was below 10%. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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More on 8 Hatch Reefers.
Picked up a flyer at a local train show today that True Line Trains is doing
8-Hatch reefers, due in 2010. They are mentioned in the TLT website new but just artwork renderings. The 8 hatch reefers were discussed a few weeks ago but I didn't see these mentioned. I plan to get one, to run occasionally just need to figure out what might be more likely in western Pa, CP, CN, or GTW. Brian J. Carlson, P.E. Cheektowaga NY
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars (How About The Trains?)
acacd_ssp
Tim,
Very interesting data to me, since I'm modeling a freelanced railroad that interchanges with both the GN and WP at Bieber in the late 1940s. If your extrapolation is correct, the 24,700 cars in 3 months, would average around 275 cars / per day. Recall in an earlier reply, I noted that a 1947 WP timetable had 4 regular / scheduled trains each day and a 1950 GN timetable had 2 each day. For the WP, the 275 cars would average a little less than 70 cars per train. This of course includes a big assumption that there were no extras, probably not a good assumption. Would it be fair to assume that there would be very little classification / sorting going on a Bieber, meaning that the vast majority of the cars that the WP delivered continuing North on GN and vice versa? I would assume some cars interchanged with McCloud at Hambone/Lookout. Finally, any idea what a comparable number of cars going on the SP through Redding would be? Comments, corrections and additional info much appreciated. Al Daumann ________________________________ From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 12:59:34 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars Dave Nelson, I hope you're paying attention! :-) The list below is 247 cars, just 1/100 of the numbers (00-99). If the distribution of numbers is uniform (I know, fat chance) that would be 247*100 or 24,700 cars through Bieber in 3 months -- My original guess was 20,000 to 30,000 cars. Your estimate was 4,000 cars, IIRC. Tim O'Connor At 11/21/2009 01:46 PM Saturday, you wrote: Cars through Bieber 1947 4th quarter ending 02 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: tools (was Re: Molded-on Grab Irons)
Jim Hayes
Tim, I've seen (on paper) and ignored the seam scraper in the past. Looking
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at it again after your reccomendation made me look again. I think I have a use for it right now on my bench. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon www.sunshinekits.com
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>wrote:
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Re: Bieber 1947 4th quarter *02 cars
pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
Frank Valoczy wrote:
I don't know what RDY is, but CRP is Central of Pennsylvania, which was aProbably means nothing in terms of Frank's abolishment/divestiture, but I photographed a CRP 70-ton flatcar at Colfax, CA, waiting in an eastbound freight in January 1959. The load was one beautiful sailboat, and one disheveled transient who probably had a very cold ride up from Roseville. Tom Madden
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